Electric Vehicles

[colddiesel]

President Biden held a big show yesterday. All the Top Brass from Detroit was there to announce the electrification of the US car industry. GM, Ford, Chrysler (whatever they're called these days), they all turned up. Each of them can boast electric vehicle production forming a massive 1% to 2% of their output.

But no invite for Tesla who only make electric vehicles- America's largest producer by far, and none for VW the largest manufacturer of electric vehicles in the world.

So what was going on? Was it a serious policy statement? Were the exclusions to kiss the Auto Union's ass? (Tesla and VW are non Union) And the Unions scored an invite.
Or is the President softening up the Taxpayer for some preferential cash or tax benefits - but only for the invitees?

 

[bellisarius]

President Biden held a big show yesterday. All the Top Brass from Detroit was there to announce the electrification of the US car industry. GM, Ford, Chrysler (whatever they're called these days), they all turned up. Each of them can boast electric vehicle production forming a massive 1% to 2% of their output.

But no invite for Tesla who only make electric vehicles- America's largest producer by far, and none for VW the largest manufacturer of electric vehicles in the world.

So what was going on? Was it a serious policy statement? Were the exclusions to kiss the Auto Union's ass? (Tesla and VW are non Union) And the Unions scored an invite.
Or is the President softening up the Taxpayer for some preferential cash or tax benefits - but only for the invitees?

I wouldn't be surprised if it were the latter, albeit the president can't do a damn thing on his own. Congress has the purse strings so only congress can act. On top of that it will be next to impossible to pass a law giving preferential treatment to some select few. Oh they can pass a law alright, but passing one that will survive a court challenge will be a whole different matter.

As an observation, electric vehicles will go the way of the Dodo eventually as well. Oh, they're fine for the urban/suburban commuter but they just aren't going to cut the mustard throughout the greater part of the nation. Distances are just to great and it is unlikely that battery technology is going to catch up anytime soon. I happen to believe that fuel cell technology is the winner in the long term. Far greener than electric. (Most people have no clue as to how damaging to the environment battery manufacture is, or the disposal of spent batteries.)

 

[CornusKousa]

Elon Musk isn't a good comrade, ESPECIALLY after leaving California for Texas.

So he gets no invite.

 

[Dribble]

God...I hate stupid people.

The policy is about how America can stay competitive. America. So only American owned companies were invited. And only companies that need help with a transition

 

[innocntplay]

President Biden held a big show yesterday. All the Top Brass from Detroit was there to announce the electrification of the US car industry. GM, Ford, Chrysler (whatever they're called these days), they all turned up. Each of them can boast electric vehicle production forming a massive 1% to 2% of their output.

But no invite for Tesla who only make electric vehicles- America's largest producer by far, and none for VW the largest manufacturer of electric vehicles in the world.

So what was going on? Was it a serious policy statement? Were the exclusions to kiss the Auto Union's ass? (Tesla and VW are non Union) And the Unions scored an invite.
Or is the President softening up the Taxpayer for some preferential cash or tax benefits - but only for the invitees?

Smoke and mirrors. The 2030 directive is berried in the infrastructure bill. Makes cars electric. Power we do not have the ability to provide. Jobs we cannot afford to lose. And employs Chinese for many years to come. They make the batteries.

 

[jaF0]

So what was going on? Was it a serious policy statement?

What's his name's an imbecile and solid full time orange mushroom sucker. No way Joe would have him around. Joe wouldn't have time to watch for the knife headed for his back.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The vast majority of commuting is urban and suburban though. If it can get me from the I.E. to L.A. it has MORE than than the amount of traveling power that I'm going to need on any sort of regular basis. And if they ever get to the point where you can get to Vegas in a go then its good to go. Besides the the real issue isn't about getting the battery but so high its about figuring out a faster way to charge or swap the batteries.

I don't care if the batteries are made in China. There are things in China I want changed sure, but I'm not out to get them. I don't care if they are making money and lots of it.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Time to invest in lithium?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

The 2030 directive is berried in the infrastructure bill

Blue, Huckle or Boysen?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/BFYLNwlsSNtcc/200.gif

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Blue, Huckle or Boysen?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/BFYLNwlsSNtcc/200.gif

Mmmm, berries.

 

[Rightguide]

President Biden held a big show yesterday. All the Top Brass from Detroit was there to announce the electrification of the US car industry. GM, Ford, Chrysler (whatever they're called these days), they all turned up. Each of them can boast electric vehicle production forming a massive 1% to 2% of their output.

But no invite for Tesla who only make electric vehicles- America's largest producer by far, and none for VW the largest manufacturer of electric vehicles in the world.

So what was going on? Was it a serious policy statement? Were the exclusions to kiss the Auto Union's ass? (Tesla and VW are non Union) And the Unions scored an invite.
Or is the President softening up the Taxpayer for some preferential cash or tax benefits - but only for the invitees?

If we had to all go to electric cars by 2030, we'd have to rebuild and increase the national electric grid, and we'll be burning more oil, gas, and coal to generate the power to supply it, the primary reason for switching in the first place. We'd have to develop hazardous waste centers on a huge scale to accommodate battery disposal. We'd have the environmental problems of mining for rare earth minerals, the majority of which are in countries hostile to the US. A few years ago 90% of those minerals came from China. The DOD has identified Afghanistan as the Saudi Arabia of rare minerals, and we just turned it over to Russia, China, and the Taliban. There is a source in California, but I don't see environmentalists allowing the mining of it there. Same supply chain restraints for Lithium. Then there are cost problems, driving range problems, the loss of revenue from reduced gas taxes and new government imposed mileage taxes to make up for it, which in the end will cost you a lot more to go the same distance in EVs as you would have been able to in gas powered vehicles.

 

[phrodeau]

If we had to all go to electric cars by 2030, we'd have to rebuild and increase the national electric grid, and we'll be burning more oil, gas, and coal to generate the power to supply it, the primary reason for switching in the first place. We'd have to develop hazardous waste centers on a huge scale to accommodate battery disposal. We'd have the environmental problems of mining for rare earth minerals, the majority of which are in countries hostile to the US. A few years ago 90% of those minerals came from China. The DOD has identified Afghanistan as the Saudi Arabia of rare minerals, and we just turned it over to Russia, China, and the Taliban. There is a source in California, but I don't see environmentalists allowing the mining of it there. Same supply chain restraints for Lithium. Then there are cost problems, driving range problems, the loss of revenue from reduced gas taxes and new government imposed mileage taxes to make up for it, which in the end will cost you a lot more to go the same distance in EVs as you would have been able to in gas powered vehicles.

The only practical alternative is to shut down all industry and travel until the climate recovers.

 

[Sean Renaud]

If we had to all go to electric cars by 2030, we'd have to rebuild and increase the national electric grid, and we'll be burning more oil, gas, and coal to generate the power to supply it, the primary reason for switching in the first place. We'd have to develop hazardous waste centers on a huge scale to accommodate battery disposal. We'd have the environmental problems of mining for rare earth minerals, the majority of which are in countries hostile to the US. A few years ago 90% of those minerals came from China. The DOD has identified Afghanistan as the Saudi Arabia of rare minerals, and we just turned it over to Russia, China, and the Taliban. There is a source in California, but I don't see environmentalists allowing the mining of it there. Same supply chain restraints for Lithium. Then there are cost problems, driving range problems, the loss of revenue from reduced gas taxes and new government imposed mileage taxes to make up for it, which in the end will cost you a lot more to go the same distance in EVs as you would have been able to in gas powered vehicles.

We are going to have to increase the electric grid but even if we hit Biden's goal (which we won't) we would not be burning more fossil fuels. That is simply false. Actually everything you posted after this is a special kind of ignorant.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were the latter, albeit the president can't do a damn thing on his own. Congress has the purse strings so only congress can act. On top of that it will be next to impossible to pass a law giving preferential treatment to some select few. Oh they can pass a law alright, but passing one that will survive a court challenge will be a whole different matter.

As an observation, electric vehicles will go the way of the Dodo eventually as well. Oh, they're fine for the urban/suburban commuter but they just aren't going to cut the mustard throughout the greater part of the nation. Distances are just to great and it is unlikely that battery technology is going to catch up anytime soon. I happen to believe that fuel cell technology is the winner in the long term. Far greener than electric. (Most people have no clue as to how damaging to the environment battery manufacture is, or the disposal of spent batteries.)

Electric vehicles are not going away, dipshit. They will just get more mileage and become cheaper to buy. They are the future whether your boomer brain accepts it or not.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

As an observation, electric vehicles will go the way of the Dodo eventually as well.

Lol ok boomer.

 

[Rightguide]

We are going to have to increase the electric grid but even if we hit Biden's goal (which we won't) we would not be burning more fossil fuels. That is simply false. Actually everything you posted after this is a special kind of ignorant.

Except you can't prove anything I said to be false.

Look, stupid, they're already having ROLLING power shortages in California now. What do you think will happen when millions upon millions of Californians start having to charge their friggin' cars every night? Nationwide the electrical power grid would have to be expanded way beyond it's present capability if there is a government mandate to switch to electrical vehicles by 2030. It will fuck the country and it's economy totally up. Everything you do in that vehicle will be planned and scheduled by the government. You think I'm kidding, wade though this shit and educate yourself:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ss_to_the_power_grid_based_on_vehicle-to-grid

 

[domroger]

Blue, Huckle or Boysen?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/BFYLNwlsSNtcc/200.gif

I bet it won't be black .

 

[jaF0]

Blue, Huckle or Boysen?

I bet it won't be black .

Dingle.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Except you can't prove anything I said to be false.

Look, stupid, they're already having ROLLING power shortages in California now. What do you think will happen when millions upon millions of Californians start having to charge their friggin' cars every night? Nationwide the electrical power grid would have to be expanded way beyond it's present capability if there is a government mandate to switch to electrical vehicles by 2030. It will fuck the country and it's economy totally up. Everything you do in that vehicle will be planned and scheduled by the government. You think I'm kidding, wade though this shit and educate yourself:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ss_to_the_power_grid_based_on_vehicle-to-grid

Actually I just know you're ignorant. California ALWAYS has rolling power shortages and its ultimately a fact that capitalism simply doesn't work for us. We've got two decades at least before we would need to be worried about milions upon millions and by then, assuming Republicans don't just want to fail we'll have a lot more green going for us.

Its just you hate success if it doesn't leave certain people behind.

 

[butters]

those damned dodos!

Arlington, Wash.-based electric aircraft maker Eviation is set to deliver for DHL Express, announcing Tuesday that the logistics company has ordered 12 of Eviation’s fully electric Alice eCargo planes.

Eviation, located in Snohomish County north of Seattle, revealed in July that it has begun assembling the first production of a battery-powered Alice passenger plane and plans to fly it for the first time later this year.

DHL is aiming to deliver packages with a zero-emission fleet of planes, which are expected to be delivered in 2024.

The electrification of delivery operations is a major goal for companies looking to reduce carbon emissions. As pointed out by CNBC, FedEx has set the goal of having carbon neutral operations globally by 2040 and will spend more than $2 billion initially in three key areas: vehicle electrification, sustainable energy, and carbon sequestration. Amazon is also going big on the ground, investing billions in electric truck maker Rivian and committing to 100,000 of the startup’s delivery vans for its logistics fleet.

https://www.geekwire.com/2021/elect...on-deliver-12-alice-cargo-planes-dhl-express/

United Airlines Is Buying 100 Zero-Emission Electric Planes From a Swedish Startup

https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/united-airlines-100-electric-planes-from-swedish-1234625038/


https://thedriven.io/2021/08/06/my-...electric-planes-will-follow-same-path-as-evs/

Electric aviation is going to be the same, in fact the cost of charging I would describe as being insignificant. A full charge (21 kW h) of the Electro at the average UK price of 15p per kW, comes out at less than £5 / $7 per hour of flying.

 

[Rightguide]

Actually I just know you're ignorant. California ALWAYS has rolling power shortages and its ultimately a fact that capitalism simply doesn't work for us. We've got two decades at least before we would need to be worried about milions upon millions and by then, assuming Republicans don't just want to fail we'll have a lot more green going for us.

Its just you hate success if it doesn't leave certain people behind.

Fuck off dipshit. Give your ignorant, undereducated, drug fried brain a fucking rest.

 

[colddiesel]

If we had to all go to electric cars by 2030, we'd have to rebuild and increase the national electric grid, and we'll be burning more oil, gas, and coal to generate the power to supply it, the primary reason for switching in the first place. We'd have to develop hazardous waste centers on a huge scale to accommodate battery disposal. We'd have the environmental problems of mining for rare earth minerals, the majority of which are in countries hostile to the US. A few years ago 90% of those minerals came from China. The DOD has identified Afghanistan as the Saudi Arabia of rare minerals, and we just turned it over to Russia, China, and the Taliban. There is a source in California, but I don't see environmentalists allowing the mining of it there. Same supply chain restraints for Lithium. Then there are cost problems, driving range problems, the loss of revenue from reduced gas taxes and new government imposed mileage taxes to make up for it, which in the end will cost you a lot more to go the same distance in EVs as you would have been able to in gas powered vehicles.

Some of this is correct, some comes up short.

Most of the charging would be done at night which is generally a period of lower demand so the load on the grid would tend to be greater in aggregate but more even throughout the day.

Most batteries can be refurbished and have extended lives, but eventual disposal is a real issue but manageable.

Lithium is mainly found in countries friendly to the USA. Largest resources are in Bolivia, Chile and Argentina followed by USA and Australia. Australia exports 70% of world trade in Lithium, twice as much as the second country, Chile, the problem is that China controls half of the Australian mine and controls about 80% of all refining and downstream use.

So far as rare earths are concerned China has the largest reserves by far, followed by Vietnam and Brazil with about half as much each. Australia has comparatively modest reserves but a disproportionate part of the export market. No one wants the refineries because environmentally they're a major problem.

Driving range problems are real. In the real world they are generally between 70 and 80% of manufacturers claims. In cold weather the fuel range of an ICE is reduced by up to 20%, but a less well known fact is that freezing temperatures can reduce the range of an electric car by up to 50% - that is a big deal in North American weather conditions, not so much in Western Europe.

If you are on a longer journey you can only "fast" (half hour) charge once per journey/day. If you do it more often your battery may be damaged Therefore if your real world total range is say 180 miles, a fast charge may top up to perhaps say 330 miles max, so long road trips might be tricky.

All in all I think there is a major future for electric vehicles for commuting and light to medium delivery and similar transport especially within cities. Long range - not so much, unless there are major battery technology improvements.

The biggest threat by far is that governments have gone overboard on commitments to prove their "greenness," and eventually, they will have to replace the massive tax take provided by petroleum products.

 

[Rightguide]

The biggest threat by far is that governments have gone overboard on commitments to prove their "greenness," and eventually, they will have to replace the massive tax take provided by petroleum products.

Yes, with massive mileage taxes that will further restrain individual freedom and the economy.

That part of the economy, small town America, that depends on individual vehicular tourism will destroyed. In America these types of economic and infrastructure change should be left up to the market and not the government. The only reason parts of the economy are embracing this unproved technology is because it's being subsidized. If this was the most efficient, practical, and economic method of moving people from A to B, the private market would have built it. Assuming an all electric car mandate by 2030, there is no power infrastructure to accommodate it at present, or that can be online in 9 years. Plugging them all in "at night" isn't going to solve the problem either. If you thought a gas shortage was a problem, wait until they start scheduling your recharge times, analyzing your mileage, taxing your mileage, and reviewing your social score to make sure you're worthy in the first place.

PS: Just read where power starved California just shut down another power plant, when they need to build about 15 more.

 

[CornusKousa]

Actually I just know you're ignorant. California ALWAYS has rolling power shortages and its ultimately a fact that capitalism simply doesn't work for us.

That's because you don't have capitalism.

The free exchange of goods and services isn't restricting your access to energy, the state control over it is.

 

[Rightguide]

That's because you don't have capitalism.

The free exchange of goods and services isn't restricting your access to energy, the state control over it is.

Sean is as dumb as a bag of hammers.