Litiquette VII

[Endless_Night]

A new word perhaps?

Sometruism?

Hahaha!

I like it.

 

[Endless_Night]

I think it still means the same thing, but some may shift it into a negative for the same reason we see bullshit like "anti-Mr. Rogers" thinkpieces. Some people are just becoming way too shitheaded and cynical. Not only that, but cruel and thoughtless. The Trump era has given weaker minded people the permission to be horrible. It's up to the rest of us to not be awful and help when we can.

I had to google anti-Mr. Rogers think pieces.

Umm, wow….

So you think it's somewhat situational, or era based. The US is certainly in a period of politically charged divisiveness. I've seen people I held in some respect on both sides take stances or spout rhetoric that was….well, hard to respect.

Makes sense, really, when you think about times past. History is hardly my strong suit, but I remember reading how jaded and cynical the Lost Generation was after the First World War. Weren't they at least a little impacted by the Spanish Flu epidemic? Hmmm, not entirely sure about the dates off the top of my head.

Interesting take, Boo.

 

[Orchidea73]

This is hardly a question of great import, but I’m curious….

(Like always. )

I ran across this sentiment several months back on social media.

"Even altruism is performed for the endorphin rush associated with the thought of good done.”

It rather took me aback. Not my definition of altruism. Even more surprising - at least to me - was how much agreement the comment garnered. I investigated further (meaning different people groups) and found the above to be a fairly common sentiment.

At that point I started thinking my definition of the word was wrong so I headed to dictionary.

1 - unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
2 - behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species

Nope. Pretty much what I thought.


This left me wondering if the meaning of the word is changing? Or if the word is misused so often that people no longer actually know the definition? Or is it just a form of modern day cynicism? Or what?

No matter how unselfish it is, and in theory not beneficial to you, that statement is true. It's not that you do something with that thought in mind. It's what you feel afterwards. Always been like that. It's biological. It is human nature.

 

[Mei5ter]

This is hardly a question of great import, but I’m curious….

(Like always. )

I ran across this sentiment several months back on social media.

"Even altruism is performed for the endorphin rush associated with the thought of good done.”

It rather took me aback. Not my definition of altruism. Even more surprising - at least to me - was how much agreement the comment garnered. I investigated further (meaning different people groups) and found the above to be a fairly common sentiment.

At that point I started thinking my definition of the word was wrong so I headed to dictionary.

1 - unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
2 - behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species

Nope. Pretty much what I thought.


This left me wondering if the meaning of the word is changing? Or if the word is misused so often that people no longer actually know the definition? Or is it just a form of modern day cynicism? Or what?

The idea that one might only be altruistic for selfish motives, because the pleasure or esteem one gets from an altruistic act outweighs the pain or inconvenience in performing it, is an ancient one. Self-referential altruism goes back to Aristotle and possibly further.

And yes, sometimes altruistic acts are performed for selfish motives. But not always.

 

[Endless_Night]

No matter how unselfish it is, and in theory not beneficial to you, that statement is true. It's not that you do something with that thought in mind. It's what you feel afterwards. Always been like that. It's biological. It is human nature.

I would agree with this completely! I just think it's possible to have one's own sense of personal loss outweigh any pleasure at the thought of good done.

At least that seems to be the way it works with me, if related to altruism and not generosity, however magnanimous.


Perhaps I need to reassess my life choices.

I seem to be doing that a lot lately.

 

[Endless_Night]

The idea that one might only be altruistic for selfish motives, because the pleasure or esteem one gets from an altruistic act outweighs the pain or inconvenience in performing it, is an ancient one. Self-referential altruism goes back to Aristotle and possibly further.

And yes, sometimes altruistic acts are performed for selfish motives. But not always.

On first read through I thought that^ said Aristophanes, whose mention always makes me think of the play, The Birds. I promptly became confused as I didn't recall the subject at hand as part of the plot.

Then I realized I don't remember the plot.

*heads to google*



(I like the term self-referential in accordance with the topic!)

 

[Orchidea73]

I would agree with this completely! I just think it's possible to have one's own sense of personal loss outweigh any pleasure at the thought of good done.

At least that seems to be the way it works with me, if related to altruism and not generosity, however magnanimous.


Perhaps I need to reassess my life choices.

I seem to be doing that a lot lately.

I think what you are describing is the sense of sacrifice? At least for me.
I've done some, even for people I love, which didn't help to make me feel good at all.

It reminds me a quote from A Song of Ice and Fire: "Sacrifice…is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice."

 

[parker77]

On first read through I thought that^ said Aristophanes, whose mention always makes me think of the play, The Birds. I promptly became confused as I didn't recall the subject at hand as part of the plot.

Then I realized I don't remember the plot.

*heads to google*



(I like the term self-referential in accordance with the topic!)

you reference Aristophanes, while i turn to Ry Cooder who sings,”feelin’ good, feelin’ good; all the money in the world’s spent on feeling good.”

i’m a simple man.

 

[Endless_Night]

I think what you are describing is the sense of sacrifice? At least for me.
I've done some, even for people I love, which didn't help to make me feel good at all.

It reminds me a quote from A Song of Ice and Fire: "Sacrifice…is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice."

I hadn't thought of it in quite that way, but yes, sacrifice describes what I mean quite well.

you reference Aristophanes, while i turn to Ry Cooder who sings,”feelin’ good, feelin’ good; all the money in the world’s spent on feeling good.”

i’m a simple man.

Not being musically inclined I fear that sends me right back to google.

 

[parker77]

Not being musically inclined I fear that sends me right back to google.

try youtube; ittmore fun. https://youtu.be/q_-cIarYLaY

 

[Endless_Night]

try youtube; ittmore fun. https://youtu.be/q_-cIarYLaY

Thank you. I have somehow managed to never hear of him. I still had to head to google, not being familiar with the term: Sneakin' Pete.


Vocabulary expanded.

 

[ChainedUp]

Wonders if I walk in and shake the tree if berries will fall out or if nuts will…..

It’s been a spell since I last wandered the halls, and while quieter, the place has held up rather well. Since it’s Sunday for me, I’ll keep the topic light & casual.

Wearing masks to stem the spread of COVID…laughing, okay that was a mean joke in light & casual.

When a person from your pasts flirts with you and lets you know their available even though you know they wouldn’t follow through and you know you wouldn’t. And even though the two of you never dated, never hooked up, or never even hung out much together but there’s still chemistry, is it fair to continue with the sporadic casual flirting, or just give it a rest and move on. Is this a case of no harm, no foul?

 

[Acktion]

Wonders if I walk in and shake the tree if berries will fall out or if nuts will…..

It’s been a spell since I last wandered the halls, and while quieter, the place has held up rather well. Since it’s Sunday for me, I’ll keep the topic light & casual.

Wearing masks to stem the spread of COVID…laughing, okay that was a mean joke in light & casual.

When a person from your pasts flirts with you and lets you know their available even though you know they wouldn’t follow through and you know you wouldn’t. And even though the two of you never dated, never hooked up, or never even hung out much together but there’s still chemistry, is it fair to continue with the sporadic casual flirting, or just give it a rest and move on. Is this a case of no harm, no foul?

Well, considering very few from my past are still alive...

I don't know, chained up. I've always been of the opinion that past relationships are past for a reason. I mean, it was one thing when I was still a scrawny little runt just knee-high on a grasshopper and her folks moved to another city. We neither of us had any choice in the matter. And LDR was more than a little different when we relied on Pony Express.

But, from the time I was footing my own bills, no. I have neither time nor inclination to hear what someone who tossed me aside like an empty candy wrapper has to say. If they wanted to be with me, then they shoulda stayed with me.

Going down that road again... I read a good quote, but can't remember who to attribute it to. "You only get to play the victim card once. After that, you volunteered." If they left me, and I'm stupid enough to let them back in, they'll most likely leave me again, I've found. So, no.

If they press it, I'll tell them as gently as I can, "learn from your experience then. Don't kick a good thing to the curb when something shiny comes along. Have a good life. Somewhere else."

 

[Endless_Night]

Just to be sure I have this straight.

There was a flirtation, which never went anywhere, that ended? Now there's an opportunity for a rerun, which you (again) know won't go anywhere?

Unless I'm missing something or there's a lot more to the story I don't see the moral dilemma.

Who would it be unfair to exactly?


As long as a resumption would be be enjoyable and not make either of you unhappy, I agree with Rainshine.

 

[Acktion]

We read this question very differently. To me the way CU explained this, these two people never had anything at all to let go of in the first place. Why would a person feel like ‘tossed aside candy’ or reluctant to talk to someone again in the scenario described?

Also, I don’t feel like flirting automatically indicates an interest to be with someone? Or does it…. have I been doing it wrong my whole life. I mean it’s highly possible I have… I would not at all be surprised.

Whups! No, you're right, as usual, Rainy. I had overdone and was overheated and plopped down to cruise Lit while I cooled off and caught my breath and I did misread it. Or, rather, I didn't understand that it was with someone we hadn't been with.

And I think a lot of that has to do with a lifelong bafflement about just what "flirting" is.

Back in the days of Malls, I was dragged (kicking and screaming... or at least pouting and grumpy) for Mom to take my little sis clothes shopping. And it didn't get any better when they wouldn't let me go off somewhere more interesting, but had to sit on a bench right outside the door of the shop and wait.

A gal came and sat down next to me and struck up a conversation with me. I swallowed my grump and chatted with her. When Mom and Sis came out, they were both laughing hysterically. I bid my benchmate adieu and walked off with them. And they told me they were laughing so hard because I'd been flirting.

I should probably mention I was in my teens and my benchmate was 80ish. And that was what they found so hysterical. Because I didn't often talk to girls my own age. But, I had no problem "flirting" with much older women.

Now, see. I didn't think what I was doing was flirting. I was being polite, as I'd been raised. And contrary to what it might seem on here, in person I really don't talk very much. Never have. But, I have "a gift" for getting other people to talk to me.

It's nothing really all that special. I just listen to them. Then ask a pertinent question about what they said. I can keep people talking for hours that way, and not have to say very much myself.

And I really couldn't tell you just how many people have accused me of flirting when that was all I was doing.

I thought flirting was at least in the general direction of sexy fun times. An interest in heading that way anyway.

Ergo, the erroneous conclusion I jumped to that there must have been something in the past rather than a not particularly close friend or acquaintance.

And, yeah, that's a little different. But, still a no for me.

A little over a decade ago, a gal from my past got in touch with me. She was my little sister's age and I'd taken her to her Freshman All-Sports Banquet after I'd graduated and a little later on her first real date. But, I didn't have time for a second date or even to keep in touch since I was working two part-time jobs, carrying double a full-time load in college, and working an internship. Sleep was a rarity.

Any road, I can't remember now if it was MySpace or Facebook, but she found me several decades later. And, since she worked at a high school just a couple of miles from the college where I was teaching, she wanted to have lunch. Thinking she wanted to catch up, I said yes. She came by to pick me up...

... and drove off into a residential area, pulled over, reached for my belt, and asked if she could "have a taste."

I hadn't had the first idea that was where we were going! I was married, as was she.

I'll stop there. Except to say that I've learned that lesson. A couple of lessons.

1) I really don't understand flirting. (Although I've been told I do it really well, usually when I don't mean to.) I don't understand what I'm doing that others think is flirting. And I don't typically understand someone was trying to flirt with me unless they are really, really blatant.

2) Nope. No flirting. No getting together. Not if either of us is in any way "taken." (Which, I am.) Apparently, I've just got too much sexy going on here and can't trust they won't want a piece of this!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6b7e1331c2fbc7801056bfc6d48ad89f/tumblr_mizyt0EXD91rhozy4o1_500.gif

 

[Orchidea73]

Flirting is fun and playful. If it isn't fun, it's not flirting. Everyone involved should feel good about themselves. Flirting is also ambiguous. When you say something flirtatiously it is fun, but the same line delivered with a sexual motive can sound sleazy and puts people off. The moment flirting moves from ambiguity to the obvious it crosses the line from flirtation to seduction. Of course, flirting can be a prelude to seduction and there are times when you may want to cross that line.

How do you know when it's flirting just for fun or something more? I would say you need good judgment, good observation & communication skills, and good timing. Well, you need all that for flirting in general. Period.

There was a time flirting was considered an art form. It still is, IMO.

 

[hotwords229_A]

I think flirting is just a more enjoyable way of communicating. I think I flirt a lot, but not necessarily in a sexy way. More in a playful way to see if the other person wants to join in. Maybe that’s more of a fun banter than a flirt, but it’s exciting and momentary.

To me, flirting is casual and charming. As Orchidea said the next step is seduction and that’s when it gets real.

 

[ChainedUp]

Weekend is over, back to work everybody!

Trying to keep the conversation more Lit-centric…what’s your indicator that you’re about to max out on Lit and it’s probably best if you back off or even take a break? Is it when a lit relationship goes bad, maybe you’re spending more and more time here and know you shouldn’t, is it when the place starts to become mundane and repetitive. And of course, what beings you back?

 

[SMNaughtywife]

I’ve been a little MIA from here for the last two months. This might of been my first Lit break*ish. RL busy.
I’ve never had hard feelings towards anyone and felt the need to dodge town. I do me really well and not bothered by you doing you.

I’m here when I have some free time and my Spidey sense detects someone needs to be hard while working, add in a dash of ensuring their concentrate is tossed out the window.
Precum soaked unders, yeah that’s a given.

 

[Endless_Night]

I am here to relax. That usually takes the form of piffle, so if my piffle buddies are absent I do tend to get bored and wander off. Or it might be that I've hit my limit on *peopling*. My social interaction capital is limited, so that happens fairly often.

What brings me back? If I'm feeling scattered I might pop in and post about movies or books - it helps me refocus. Or the occasional *where are you* query will bring me back, if I’ve left PMs synced to my phone. Or to check in on a Lit friend.


Once here something might catch my attention and I'll hang out for a bit.

Or it might not.

I'm fickle.

 

[Endless_Night]

I’ve been a little MIA from here for the last two months. This might of been my first Lit break*ish. RL busy.
I’ve never had hard feelings towards anyone and felt the need to dodge town. I do me really well and not bothered by you doing you.

I’m here when I have some free time and my Spidey sense detects someone needs to be hard while working, add in a dash of ensuring their concentrate is tossed out the window.
Precum soaked unders, yeah that’s a given.

Hahaha! Now this is why I SHOULD be here.


But it's not.

 

[hotwords229_A]

I’ve been a little MIA from here for the last two months. This might of been my first Lit break*ish. RL busy.
I’ve never had hard feelings towards anyone and felt the need to dodge town. I do me really well and not bothered by you doing you.

I’m here when I have some free time and my Spidey sense detects someone needs to be hard while working, add in a dash of ensuring their concentrate is tossed out the window.
Precum soaked unders, yeah that’s a given.

Your absence was noticed. Your Spidey sense makes for good Spidey webs

 

[Endless_Night]

The pre-cum just happens when you talk to me, I know.

I'm sorry. Where you speaking to me?

 

[Orchidea73]

I think flirting is just a more enjoyable way of communicating. I think I flirt a lot, but not necessarily in a sexy way. More in a playful way to see if the other person wants to join in. Maybe that’s more of a fun banter than a flirt, but it’s exciting and momentary.

To me, flirting is casual and charming. As Orchidea said the next step is seduction and that’s when it gets real.

Good point about banter. I also do feel that banter is slightly different. It doesn't necessarily mean you are flirting but you can certainly use it when flirting.

 

[Dribble]

Depends on the person doesn't? And what they say. I have seen...experienced...people that say one thing and then come back with the "it was just flirting and I do the same thing with everyone". Handy excuse. I pitty their future flirts. Cause you know they will say the exact same things. And it wasn't flirting imo. But hey...I would rather know sooner than later.