Is there any way the old job market can come back?

[pecksniff]

By "old" I mean as it was in the 1950s and 1960s, when a white man, at any rate, with only a high-school education could earn a middle-class income and good benefits from a blue-collar job.

But, that was only possible because of:

1. Strong labor unions.

2. A world where every other industrial power that fought WWII was devastated by it and had not yet entirely recovered, leaving America the global market in manufactures.

3. A domestic economy where the corporations had not yet discovered offshoring, outsourcing, and automation.

Trump implicitly promised the white working class that he would bring back those days, but he does not appear ever to have had any actual ideas in mind for achieving it.

Does anybody?

 

[CornusKousa]

Trump implicitly promised the white working class that he would bring back those days, but he does not appear ever to have had any actual ideas in mind for achieving it.

Does anybody?

No, he didn't.

The race baiting is entirely yours.

And the answer is no. Besides a HS diploma is a fucking joke, totally devalued by our education system, 4 year degrees are in the same boat, all that means is they're in lots of debt or their parents check cleared and they're probably entitled and spoiled little shits.

 

[Ramone45]

By "old" I mean as it was in the 1950s and 1960s, when a white man, at any rate, with only a high-school education could earn a middle-class income and good benefits from a blue-collar job.

But, that was only possible because of:

1. Strong labor unions.

2. A world where every other industrial power that fought WWII was devastated by it and had not yet entirely recovered, leaving America the global market in manufactures.

3. A domestic economy where the corporations had not yet discovered offshoring, outsourcing, and automation.

Trump implicitly promised the white working class that he would bring back those days, but he does not appear ever to have had any actual ideas in mind for achieving it.

Does anybody?

I think society has shifted away from this ideal to its detriment. I think it is an admirable goal, but I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. There are too many things that have to change. Re-establishing the primacy of the nuclear family. Reducing the divorce rate. Changing our views on raising children. Lowering taxes and fees to put more money in people's pockets. Term limits for government officials and reducing the role of government in our everyday lives. A return to spirituality. I see hints of this when I visit the south, such as North Carolina specifically.

 

[Dribble]

The correct answer is no

 

[Rightguide]

Trump implicitly promised the white working class that he would bring back those days, but he does not appear ever to have had any actual ideas in mind for achieving it.

Pitiful liar.

 

[jomar]

Well, the other day a guy whose business is grouting told me it would be $550 to regrout some of my shower and apply sealant to the tiles for “permanent beauty.” Said it would take a half day. You do the math. Leaves him plenty of time to travel to dog shows and parade his giant purebred mountain dogs around.

So probably not the old markets of the 50s and 60s, but trades can still make bank. Plus, there are plenty of jobs for folks with a HS degree to make a good living…auto and airline industry to name a couple.

 

[pecksniff]

I think society has shifted away from this ideal to its detriment. I think it is an admirable goal, but I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. There are too many things that have to change. Re-establishing the primacy of the nuclear family. Reducing the divorce rate. Changing our views on raising children. Lowering taxes and fees to put more money in people's pockets. Term limits for government officials and reducing the role of government in our everyday lives. A return to spirituality. I see hints of this when I visit the south, such as North Carolina specifically.

None of those things would create high-wage low-skill jobs.

 

[pecksniff]

Pitiful liar.

Yes, he was.

 

[Rightguide]

Yes, he was.

Yes you are, a liar.

 

[ll74]

I think society has shifted away from this ideal to its detriment. I think it is an admirable goal, but I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. There are too many things that have to change. Re-establishing the primacy of the nuclear family. Reducing the divorce rate. Changing our views on raising children. Lowering taxes and fees to put more money in people's pockets. Term limits for government officials and reducing the role of government in our everyday lives. A return to spirituality. I see hints of this when I visit the south, such as North Carolina specifically.

Lol..so you just want some 1960s christian world view of things.

 

[pecksniff]

Yes you are, a liar.

I do not lie when I say Trump had no actual plan to bring the old jobs back. Look at the record -- he had a Republican Congress the first two years -- anything he wanted done would have been done. But the only thing that got done was a tax cut. It didn't help matters.

 

[Rightguide]

I do not lie when I say Trump had no actual plan to bring the old jobs back.

Then you're ignorant. He had the highest employment numbers in history before the pandemic.

 

[pecksniff]

Then you're ignorant. He had the highest employment numbers in history before the pandemic.

That was Obama's doing and no economist will tell you different.

In any case, one thing that didn't come back on Trump's watch was the old-style manufacturing jobs. Nor coal mining, although he focused on that for some reason.

 

[Ramone45]

Lol..so you just want some 1960s christian world view of things.

What are you talking about? The principles I stated are somehow exclusively Christian principles? Do you think the nuclear family and spirituality are exclusively Christian constructs?

 

[Cubantripod]

No, he didn't.

The race baiting is entirely yours.

And the answer is no. Besides a HS diploma is a fucking joke, totally devalued by our education system, 4 year degrees are in the same boat, all that means is they're in lots of debt or their parents check cleared and they're probably entitled and spoiled little shits.

So is a modern day college degree. It is so far removed from a classic liberal education, that it isn't worth much. Most college graduates will also tell you that they didn't their degree to get their job. They haven't used much of anything they learned in college.

 

[Ramone45]

None of those things would create high-wage low-skill jobs.

It would take a huge shift. Corporate attitudes and business principles would need fundamental changes.The philosophy of public education would need to change. Tax policy. Our attitudes toward politics.

 

[WillJ8787]

By "old" I mean as it was in the 1950s and 1960s, when a white man, at any rate, with only a high-school education could earn a middle-class income and good benefits from a blue-collar job.

But, that was only possible because of:

1. Strong labor unions.

2. A world where every other industrial power that fought WWII was devastated by it and had not yet entirely recovered, leaving America the global market in manufactures.

3. A domestic economy where the corporations had not yet discovered offshoring, outsourcing, and automation.

Trump implicitly promised the white working class that he would bring back those days, but he does not appear ever to have had any actual ideas in mind for achieving it.

Does anybody?

Ah, no....your missing some other components like technology and robotics on manufacturing and assembly lines.

The only way you get jobs like your describing is if high school educated folks get higher degrees. They need it to be able to perform the level of skills required in the overall job market.

The two ways one gets to this point is:

Individuals/families decide to invest in their own education as a pathway to higher paid jobs, in the short term, and increased family success and wealth in the future, generationally, if they all work hard towards this goal.

Govt investment in education for low income families to break into this higher tier of economic success...which can also be a long term path to families escaping poverty and lower incomes along with a whole host of other stuff.

 

[WillJ8787]

No, he didn't.

The race baiting is entirely yours.

And the answer is no. Besides a HS diploma is a fucking joke, totally devalued by our education system, 4 year degrees are in the same boat, all that means is they're in lots of debt or their parents check cleared and they're probably entitled and spoiled little shits.

Yes he did...he said it explicitly....we all heard him say it directly.

 

[pecksniff]

So is a modern day college degree. It is so far removed from a classic liberal education, that it isn't worth much. Most college graduates will also tell you that they didn't their degree to get their job. They haven't used much of anything they learned in college.

That "classic liberal education" was intended for people who would not have to work for a living. That is what "liberal arts" means, the education appropriate to a free man defined as a man with an independent income. The original curriculum was logic, grammar, rhetoric, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy and music (music theory, not learning to play an instrument); medicine and architecture were considered for inclusion, but rejected as too practical.

 

[Rightguide]

That was Obama's doing and no economist will tell you different.

In any case, one thing that didn't come back on Trump's watch was the old-style manufacturing jobs. Nor coal mining, although he focused on that for some reason.

^^^
Mythology for the felony naïve.

 

[pecksniff]

^^^
Mythology for the felony naïve.

It's all true. Where are the re-opened rustbelt factories and coal mines? Nowhere.

 

[WillJ8787]

It's all true. Where are the re-opened rustbelt factories and coal mines? Nowhere.

Wrong guide doesn't read or know what a "paper" is so he missed the news.

Trump wanted votes from the gullible....and it was easy for him.to get them.

 

[CornusKousa]

So is a modern day college degree. It is so far removed from a classic liberal education, that it isn't worth much. Most college graduates will also tell you that they didn't their degree to get their job. They haven't used much of anything they learned in college.

There are a few specialized degrees that are still good, but they're HARD and probably going to be degraded to worthlessness for the sake of equity too.

Yes he did...he said it explicitly....we all heard him say it directly.

No, he didn't, that's why you lot have shit talk and not quotes.

That "classic liberal education" was intended for people who would not have to work for a living. That is what "liberal arts" means, the education appropriate to a free man defined as a man with an independent income. The original curriculum was logic, grammar, rhetoric, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy and music (music theory, not learning to play an instrument); medicine and architecture were considered for inclusion, but rejected as too practical.

Someone ought to tell all these dumb shit kids saddling themselves up with a lifetime of crushing debt for worthless degrees.

 

[pecksniff]

Someone ought to tell all these dumb shit kids saddling themselves up with a lifetime of crushing debt for worthless degrees.

What else can they do? They can't have their grandfathers' factory jobs. They can't have any job worth having if they don't have 4-year degrees. The point of the thread is how to change that.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Pitiful liar.

Notice the use of the weasel word "implicitly." It allows liars and propagandists to simply read into Trump's actual words a racist intent where none was present before.