Suddenly

[astushkin]

Does anyone else have a love-hate relationship with adverbs…or any other specific category of word? Influenced by this article, and poem, I have become self-conscious about adverbs.

https://www.vulture.com/2016/05/could-we-just-lose-the-adverb-already.html
http://inwardboundpoetry.blogspot.com/2007/06/441-tension-billy-collins.html

One argument is that if you write well enough, readers don’t need them to picture the scene…they would know that the character is angry or nervous etc…thus ‘angrily’ or ‘nervously’ are redundant.

But if there are quick changes in mood or action, the scene may not be so readily imagined. (Readily! Ha ha). Or during sex scenes…whether the characters are kissing or thrusting tenderly, roughly, slowly, etc may not be intuitive to the reader. I’ve tried such scenes with and without adverbs…they seem more vivid with.

But I struggle to not overuse them. Given that my writing style is a tribute to historical erotica, that can be difficult…adverbs and adjectives were popular then.

Nevertheless, I always count how many times ‘suddenly’ appears in my stories and try to keep it to a bare minimum. I’ve tended to use ‘abruptly’ or ‘all at once’ or change it to an adjective, ie: ‘he laughed suddenly’ to ‘with a sudden laugh’. They feel like cop-outs.

But perhaps I’m obsessively, anxiously, and interminably overthinking this.

 

[SimonDoom]

But perhaps I’m obsessively, anxiously, and interminably overthinking this.

Probably.

Adverbs are a perfectly legitimate type of word. They serve a purpose. Open a great novel and you'll see plenty of examples of adverbs being used.

They can be over-used. Be mindful about using them. But don't be obsessive about avoiding them.

 

[TadOverdon]

Probably.

Adverbs are a perfectly legitimate type of word. They serve a purpose. Open a great novel and you'll see plenty of examples of adverbs being used.

They can be over-used. Be mindful about using them. But don't e obsessive about avoiding them.

This.

I think adverbs are unfairly maligned in large part due to their abuse as modifiers of dialogue tags. That's become a cliche, he said obviously.

 

[KeithD]

No, I let adverbs happen naturally. It's adjectives I probably realize I'm overworking, but they help make my own style, so I don't hatchet them too often either.

 

[AlphaLyon]

Does anyone else have a love-hate relationship with adverbs…or any other specific category of word?

I hate adverbs as linguistic crutches. I find I use them much more in erotica than in non-erotic fiction since I'm still new to this genre of writing. Still doesn't mean it doesn't bother me.

If we're going to burn linguistic devices, can we also burn the "he/she/they said" phrase every time someone says something? If your writing is good enough, the reader should be able to know who's speaking without these simple markers. They're necessary sometimes at the start, or in group conversations they're often essential, but I get all judge-y when I read a block of dialogue that is suffixed by a list of "he said // then she said". Thanks for coming to my TED Talk rant.

 

[SimonDoom]

I hate adverbs as linguistic crutches. I find I use them much more in erotica than in non-erotic fiction since I'm still new to this genre of writing. Still doesn't mean it doesn't bother me.

If we're going to burn linguistic devices, can we also burn the "he/she/they said" phrase every time someone says something? If your writing is good enough, the reader should be able to know who's speaking without these simple markers. They're necessary sometimes at the start, or in group conversations they're often essential, but I get all judge-y when I read a block of dialogue that is suffixed by a list of "he said // then she said". Thanks for coming to my TED Talk rant.

Open up a great novel and you'll see plenty of examples of "he said/she said." I don't get why people object to dialogue tags. You don't need them on every line because usually it's pretty clear who's speaking, but it seems weird to me to go out of the way to get rid of them. To me, the thing that matters is clarity. If you give up clarity for the sake of getting rid of dialogue tags because you don't like them, you are on a misguided effort, IMO.

 

[AlphaLyon]

Open up a great novel and you'll see plenty of examples of "he said/she said." I don't get why people object to dialogue tags. You don't need them on every line because usually it's pretty clear who's speaking, but it seems weird to me to go out of the way to get rid of them. To me, the thing that matters is clarity. If you give up clarity for the sake of getting rid of dialogue tags because you don't like them, you are on a misguided effort, IMO.

If it's for clarity, I don't have a problem with them. It's more when you have a block of short back-and-forth text like this:
"Hi," he said.
"Hello," she said.
"How are you?" he asked.
"I'm good. How are you?" she replied.
...etc.

When the dialogue rhythm has already been established, it brings nothing to the story. And we know if a character asks a question by the question mark, it seems redundant to put a "he said" afterwards.
Again, this is just a writing style thing, and I'm one of those weird people who cringes when I have to use dialogue tags.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Does anyone else have a love-hate relationship with adverbs…or any other specific category of word? Influenced by this article, and poem, I have become self-conscious about adverbs.

There's a grain of truth in the "kill your adverbs" pieces but most advice becomes bad when taken to excess.

Yes, a lot of writers lean over-hard on adverbs for things that would be best conveyed by other means. In particular, they're often used for conveying character emotion in situations where the author would do better to describe the visible/audible signs of that emotion. If I catch myself writing "John said angrily", I may stop myself and write instead about his red face, raised voice, bulging eyes.

(Not always, though. Not every scene needs to be fleshed out; sometimes it's best to use a quick "angrily" and move on to the next scene. Judging that timing is an art.)

But lots of adverbs are peaceful little creatures working quietly to make your prose better. Some of them, like "not", are crucial to meaning, and you delete those at your peril. In between, there are plenty that add useful nuance that helps fine-tune meaning.

 

[SimonDoom]

But lots of adverbs are peaceful little creatures working quietly to make your prose better.

I love this sentence!

And the word "quietly" proves your point.

 

[astushkin]

OK...I'll try not to be so hard on myself, astushkin said musefully

 

[SisterJezabel]

Adverbs can be overused excessively and often you need to boldly split an infinitive with them too...

 

[davion2308]

King's On Writing

I read Stephen King's On Writing as a high school junior and the part where he goes after adverbs stuck with me. I think the verb itself should be descriptive enough. I use adverbs but rarely and only when they're absolutely required.

I don't love them and they distract me nowadays.

 

[Fervid]

. . . I think the verb itself should be descriptive enough. I use adverbs but rarely and only when they're absolutely required.

I don't love them and they distract me nowadays.

Exactly!D) They get in the way of taut, efficient prose, which I happen to like. Often there is a verb that would convey the same meaning as a vague verb plus an adverb.

 

[TadOverdon]

After perusing the last posts in this topic, I reread the last paragraph written on my current story and took out two adverbs. I discovered that I resisted the restructuring of sentences and additional text that it required. When I read the revised version back, it was better.

 

[yowser]

There's a short and provocative piece on this by Christian Lorentzen in the New York magazine. https://www.vulture.com/2016/05/could-we-just-lose-the-adverb-already.html

Among other things he notes: An excess of adverbs in prose signals a general lack of vividness in verbs and adjectives.

Style and balance, always elements of the author's challenge.

 

[KeithD]

I read Stephen King's On Writing as a high school junior and the part where he goes after adverbs stuck with me. I think the verb itself should be descriptive enough. I use adverbs but rarely and only when they're absolutely required.

I don't love them and they distract me nowadays.

Yeah, except that, famously, other writers go after King for his overuse of adverbs.

I read (and enjoyed) King's On Writing for his experience in writing and getting it published, not necessarily because he hold the Holy Grail on good writing.

 

[MetaBob]

Does anyone else have a love-hate relationship with adverbs…or any other specific category of word? Influenced by this article, and poem, I have become self-conscious about adverbs.

Good.

But perhaps I’m obsessively, anxiously, and interminably overthinking this.

Also beware hooptedoodle.

https://ronaldyatesbooks.com/2019/01/elmore-leonards-10-rules-of-writing-annotated-2/

Note that Elmore's essay for the NYT inspired similar essays by Margaret Atwood and Neil Gaiman, among others, and was eventually adapted into a standalone book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/859230.Elmore_Leonard_s_10_Rules_of_Writing

As an article in The Globe and Mail about this points out, "as in jazz, you must know the rules before you break them."

I like how after many of Elmore's rules, he raises a spot-on counterexample.