AAAGH -- Final Fifty Shades book to be released!

[Bramblethorn]

I don't believe that as an artist/author I am responsible for what readers do in response to my art. They're responsible for themselves. I write fiction and fantasy. I presume that the people who read my stories are adults. They have the power of choice. Some very, very small percentage of them may be so lacking in responsibility and self-control and perception of reality that they may do something foolish after reading my story. That's their problem, as I see it. It's the price you pay for living in a free world. We are much better off, in the aggregate, upholding an ethic whereby artists and authors give free rein to their imagination, even where it's twisted or "irresponsible." That's what I believe.

We've had this argument before, but this line always seems to me like trying to eat your cake and have it too.

Somehow, writing is simultaneously this tremendously important thing that Must Be Protected because of its great power to benefit the world... and a powerless and inconsequential thing that couldn't possibly influence more than a "very, very small percentage" of readers.

If writing was as impotent as you suggest, why bother?

 

[KeithD]

I think the idea is to write what you want, but publish it someplace other than the BDSM category. It isn't the right venue.

Because some self-appointed clubers own the category? I don't think so, as long as you are prepared to having them tell you they own the category and having them dump on you and just smiling back at them.

 

[KeithD]

I KNOW I have better chops. Under my real name, I have published an award-winning, popular history, through an academic press. It was the first book on its topic written in. ninety years and the Library of Congress created a special subheading just for it! It's been quoted and cited in subsequent books by other authors. Recently, Pulitzer Prize winner Dave Maranis came to my house to peruse my research, and told me to my face that I was "a fantastic writer."

___ YOUR TURN!

OK, then do your thing, rake in your rewards, be grateful E.L. James opened up the genre to the readers/buyers, and refrain from sniveling about anyone else getting rewards by what they manage to do with it.

Oh, and I'm not insecure enough to play "me compared to you games" here.

 

[KeithD]

If writing was as impotent as you suggest, why bother?

I don't follow. It's you lot who are trying to tell others what they can write if they don't want you to dump on them.

Who are all of these stupid people who went to hospital because they enjoyed reading E.L. James's books and then went out and tried it themselves and just how do you lot figure she's stealing money from "you better writers" and less clever promoters?

Every time this topic comes up rabid people come pouring out of the woodwork. Just cool it and mind your own business,.

 

[NotWise]

Because some self-appointed clubers own the category? I don't think so, as long as you are prepared to having them tell you they own the category and having them dump on you and just smiling back at them.

If a group of readers in the category wants to define their own rules, then it really doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me that Romance readers want stories that conform to the definition of a Romance story. It doesn't bother me that readers in the Lesbian category want characters to be lesbians.

I don't know how that kind of insistence on rules is going to help the BDSM readers. It's like they want every story to be an instruction manual. If we all put our stories into other categories then instuction manuals might be all they have left to read.

 

[KeithD]

If a group of readers in the category want to define their own rules, then it really doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me that Romance readers want stories that conform to the definition of a Romance story. It doesn't bother me that readers in the Lesbian category want characters to be lesbians.

I don't know how that kind of insistence on rules is going to help the BDSM readers. It's like they want every story to be an instruction manual. If we all put our stories into other categories then instuction manuals might be all they have left to read.

How large a group? 10? 100? 20,000? Do they have to sign up and have an "I'm in the controlling group" card and decoder ring?

Just how mature are these people who registered for this adult site?

Nuts to that.

Are these stories that the sole submissions editor here passed through to publication on this site?

 

[Wifetheif]

OK, then do your thing, rake in your rewards, be grateful E.L. James opened up the genre to the readers/buyers, and refrain from sniveling about anyone else getting rewards by what they manage to do with it.

Oh, and I'm not insecure enough to play "me compared to you games" here.

it was YOU who dares US to prove that we had chops that were better than E.L. James. I answered YOUR challenge. E.L. James ONLY got her contract to begin with because of her husband's connections. She opened no "New" markets as neither erotica nor BDSM is a new phenomenon. She did get a lot of people to read her crappy prose, which is an accomplishment of sorts. Her manuscript did not come about as a query from a publisher, nor did arrive by the slush pile like Nicolas Spark's first book. FAMILY connections got her a contract for a book that under ordinary circumstances would have been rejected the same day it reached the publisher's office! Her characters are borrowed from "Twilight" and are therefore NOT original. You accuse me of "sniveling" yet it was YOU who asked if any of us had "better chops" than E.L. James I proved my case, yet somehow, that's "insecurity?" As the great Ted Williams so eloquently put it, "It's not bragging if you can back it up!"

-- I repeat, YOUR TURN!

 

[Wifetheif]

OK, then do your thing, rake in your rewards, be grateful E.L. James opened up the genre to the readers/buyers, and refrain from sniveling about anyone else getting rewards by what they manage to do with it.

Oh, and I'm not insecure enough to play "me compared to you games" here.

In her book "The Mister" E.L. James includes the following sentence, "It was music to my dick!"

Find me ONE author on Literotica.com that has written an equally bad sentence.

I can safely say that virtually ALL L.Com authors have "better chops" than that!

 

[KeithD]

it was YOU who dares US to prove that we had chops that were better than E.L. James.

Well, no, certainly not in terms of stroking your ego on the discussion board. And the only reality at Literotica of chops is what can be gleaned from the posting account. And as good as it looks, guess what . . .

And no "your turn," because I'm not that insecure or childish.

 

[Wifetheif]

Well, no, certainly not in terms of stroking your ego on the discussion board. And the only reality at Literotica of chops is what can be gleaned from the posting account. And as good as it looks, guess what . . .

And no "your turn," because I'm not that insecure or childish.

Or simply not a good writer.

 

[KeithD]

Or simply not a good writer.

Did I mention insecure and childish?

 

[Wifetheif]

No matter how bad the prose is of E. L. James (and I haven't read any of it), she opened up a whole niche for readers/buyers of a genre that many Literotica authors, riding on her back, are benefiting from. You BDSM folks should be sending her flowers.

You've NEVER read any to it? UTTER B.S. the bad prose was widely distributed and mocked over the internet from the first day it was released. Even a one-eyed half-blind internet neophyte had seen examples of James's bad press from day one. You are either living in a bubble or you are being disingenuous -- there is NO third option.
BDSM writers OWE her NOTHING. It is NOT a BDSM relationship as there is no consent in any of it. Christian manipulates and humiliates Anastasia to get her to do what HE wants! By no stretch of the imagination are REAL BDSM relationships like that! Saying that the writers at L.com and elsewhere "Should be sending her flowers" is EXTREMELY insulting to the Literotica.com writers who work in that genre (including, from time to time, myself). You owe ALL of us an apology!

 

[KeithD]

And did I mention rabid?

Wonder if she knows how to spell "thief."

 

[Wifetheif]

Did I mention insecure and childish?

YOU are the one INSULTING every BDSM writer here at L.com and I'M the one who is "insecure and childish?"

How about this Mr. secure and mature. why don't YOU plunge into the BDSM wing of L. Com and find a sentence as bad as this one in E.L. James's "The Mister" -- "It was music to my dick!"

Or is asking you to do research like any real writer is a challenge beneath you?

 

[KeithD]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned rabid.

(When I was asked recently how many stories I'd keyworded "BDSM" in my Lit. stories, as I remember I came up with 86 in my two main accounts, sr71pt and KeithD. I guess I could go check that. 86 seems a goodly amount.)

LATER: Oops, no, it turns out it's 117. (96 for sr71plt and 21 for KeithD).

Guess what the number 7 represents.

 

[Wifetheif]

And did I mention rabid?

Wonder if she knows how to spell "thief."

The misspelling is intentional -- just to see how many people would pass judgment on me and not read my stories because of a perceived typo. It's pretty effective in separating the assholes from the well-intentioned.

I can put up with grammar mistakes in MOST cases but James's prose is literally painful to read. Now that you have had your fun insulting me, and by extension, ALL of the BDSM writers on L.com. How about you engage in that little challenge I set for you. Find an L.com sentence WORSE than "It was music to my dick!"

 

[KeithD]

The misspelling is intentional -- just to see how many people would pass judgment on me and not read my stories because of a perceived typo. It's pretty effective in separating the assholes from the well-intentioned.

Umm, yes, of course.

 

[Wifetheif]

Umm, yes, of course.

I've had it for close to ten years. If it was a mistake wouldn't I have corrected it a LONG time ago?

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't know how that kind of insistence on rules is going to help the BDSM readers. It's like they want every story to be an instruction manual. If we all put our stories into other categories then instuction manuals might be all they have left to read.

It really isn't, though. That's a straw man.

 

[SimonDoom]

If writing was as impotent as you suggest, why bother?

It's not impotent at all. We bother because writing stories gives people pleasure. That's enough. That's sufficient justification. It gives me pleasure to write, too. The upside is clear and obvious. The downside is pure conjecture.

Publishing a story to Literotica with dangerous or transgressive messages is not, in any way, shape, or form, the equivalent of shouting "fire!" in a crowded movie theater. If people take my story the wrong way, that's on them, not on me. My stories are fantasies, not how-to manuals on doing bad things. That's true of E.L. James, too. I don't regard E.L. James as in any way responsible for the tiny fraction of the population (if there is any fraction, which I doubt) that is so addled that it wants to engage in bad BDSM practices. I'm extremely skeptical about whether this is a thing, at all. My admittedly non-expert perception is that those who worry about this sort of thing have little to no evidence on their side. So my default position is: just write what you want in this fantasy erotica space to please yourself and your readers, and don't worry about the (probably nonexistent) bad consequences.

 

[KeithD]

I think it's mostly about control. And, for BDSM clubbers, control would certainly be very, very important. (Oh, and the club cards and decoder rings.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

And did I mention rabid?

Wonder if she knows how to spell "thief."

(When I was asked recently how many stories I'd keyworded "BDSM" in my Lit. stories, as I remember I came up with 86 in my two main accounts, sr71pt and KeithD. I guess I could go check that. 86 seems a goodly amount.)

LATER: Oops, no, it turns out it's 117. (96 for sr71plt and 21 for KeithD).

If I was ragging on somebody else for misspelling their user name, I'd make damn sure I wasn't misspelling my own user name in the same thread.

 

[Wifetheif]

Umm, yes, of course.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned rabid.

(When I was asked recently how many stories I'd keyworded "BDSM" in my Lit. stories, as I remember I came up with 86 in my two main accounts, sr71pt and KeithD. I guess I could go check that. 86 seems a goodly amount.)

LATER: Oops, no, it turns out it's 117. (96 for sr71plt and 21 for KeithD).

Guess what the number 7 represents.

SOME of us only write here as a sideline. They might have thriving, profitable careers on Amazon and elsewhere while simultaneously turning out nonfiction. Some of us don't have to wave our dicks.

 

[KeithD]

If I was ragging on somebody else for misspelling their user name, I'd make damn sure I wasn't misspelling my own user name in the same thread.

Yeah, I'm sure you would. You're really good at sticking your nose in other people's business. And you're the self-appointed hall monitor here.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yeah, I'm sure you would. You're really good at sticking your nose in other people's business. And you're the self-appointed hall monitor here.

From a guy who used to brag about having been a professional spy, I'll take that as a compliment.