Why the Russian liberal opposition reject the Twitter Trump ban

[LupusDei]

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/...ssian-opposition-reject-the-twitter-trump-ban

The storming of the US Capitol by supporters of President Donald Trump has shaken the world. In Russia though, the events of January 6 were all but overshadowed by the banishment of the US president from Twitter. The focus shifted to Trump’s deplatforming in no small part because Russian opposition leader Aleksey Navalny weighed in on the issue by describing the ban as an “unacceptable act of censorship”.

He also dubbed it “an act of selective justice”, laughing off the notion that the decision was based on Twitter’s terms of service. He pointed to the incessant death threats he has been receiving from Twitter users, who are in clear violation of those rules and who in no way have been sanctioned by Twitter. And these threats are not to be taken lightly. Navalny has survived multiple attacks, including most recently a poisoning with a lethal nerve agent by the Russian secret services, as revealed by British investigative outlet Bellingcat.

He also dismissed the arguments in favour of the ban by saying that 80 percent of them are identical to those the Kremlin uses in its attempts to drive him out of online platforms, such as YouTube.

Navalny’s criticism reflects a sense of fatigue among Russia’s liberals with America’s failure to draw important lessons from the disaster of electing someone like Trump in a democratic vote.

As many Russian liberals see it, the anti-Trumpists’ unhealthy obsession with Putin’s meddling in (or rather – trolling of) American politics mirrors Putin’s own paranoia about foreign agents and America’s perceived desire to undo Russia.

It is this lax attitude to the promoters of far-right agenda, which helped Putin frame Ukraine’s revolution as a US-backed far-right coup and justify the occupation of Crimea in the eyes of his Russian audience. Ironically, for American whitewashers of East European ultranationalism, the Ukrainian far right was ecstatic about the storming of the Capitol, their Telegram channels filled with cheers and hope for a “white revolution”.

In the past three years, after a series of increasingly pathetic policies, the Kremlin failed to ban the messaging app Telegram, now the main platform for open political debate in Russia. Created by avowed libertarians, it is also a safe haven for Nazis and white terror propagandists, who are now calling on Trump to move in with them.

Deplatforming the far right is not an effective long-term solution.

 

[Lazaran]

.
Yeah, I don't really give one single fuck about anything any Russian has to say. They've all had a great laugh at America's expense thanks to Putin's state sponsored interference in the USA.

I fully understand that that's the way the game is played, but now it's time for Putin, (and by extension the Russian people), to take their turn in the barrel.

I believe it will become quite apparent very quickly that Trump was soft on Putin/Russia when Biden starts levying serious sanctions on individuals and businesses, and authorizing cyber reprisals. I don't think they deserve worse than what they did to America and the west, just equal retribution.

I hope they enjoy the consequences of poking the American Grizzly bear and taking advantage of democracy's open societies.

 

[LupusDei]

You guys are so pathetically self centred... that's how you got the Trump and deserved him.

Aleksey Navalny is the guy Putin recently tried to poison. He's now returning to Russia to -- in effect voluntary -- face political arrest and imprisonment, with credible threat to his life. I may not sign under everything he says or Leonid Ragozin writes from political exile (in my country, incidentally), as they would likely label me as "ultranationalist" despite in fact mostly shared ideology, but it's valuable opinion to consider.

Yeah, I don't really give one single fuck about anything any Russian has to say.

Also from the same article

If anything, the inability of numerous American commentators to distinguish between the Kremlin and the Russian people, to recognise that Russia is itself divided by the same political barricade as America (between educated urban cosmopolitans and lower-income provincials who feel alienated by narcissistic liberals) has played into Putin’s hands by helping to discredit the West in the eyes of common Russians.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Twitter isn't/wasn't "deplatforming the right." They were "deplatforming" what they considered incitements to violence.

If someone wants to take it to court, go argue it out in court. It's a classic free speech issue. Not all "free speech" is allowed. We have a legal system that addresses this. Can't say the same for Russia.

Comparing what Twitter did to what Putin does to his opponents is just simplistic and ignorant.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/...ssian-opposition-reject-the-twitter-trump-ban

 

[LupusDei]

Comparing what Twitter did to what Putin does to his opponents is just simplistic and ignorant.

Yes, and I personally think it had to be done when it was done. However, I actually think it would have been smoother if they did as Facebook did and just extended the first freeze indefinitely. Decision to ban him after he announced his decision to not participate in Biden's inauguration just because some of his followers interpretations of it meaning there shouldn't be such inauguration in their delusions was... rather contrived.

And, it does give a chance for various less than honest actors to point and say, "see, they do it themselves too!"

 

[Just4AFriend]

You do know that HE is the President!
He can call a press meeting any fucking time he wants
WE the People gave him a room to do that
The fucker doesn’t want that!!

Free Speech?? That’s not what this is
Any more than the idea that “speech” is free
If you want to be heard? Grease a politician and slide right up their ear canal or elsewhere.

 

[Dribble]

His complaint is valid. But it has to start somewhere.

Edit: implement rules...enforce them...

 

[LupusDei]

You do know that HE is the President!
He can call a press meeting any fucking time he wants
WE the People gave him a room to do that
The fucker doesn’t want that!!

I know. I also think Mr. Navalny may have missed the little uncomfortable fact that you guys are possibly facing massive insurgency of heavily armed delusional idiots.

However, arbitrary decisions by companies with power to shape discourse are potentially dangerous.

 

[Lazaran]

I know. I also think Mr. Navalny may have missed the little uncomfortable fact that you guys are possibly facing massive insurgency of heavily armed delusional idiots.

However, arbitrary decisions by companies with power to shape discourse are potentially dangerous.

Arbitrary???

GMAFB

 

[CornusKousa]

Twitter isn't/wasn't "deplatforming the right." They were "deplatforming" what they considered incitements to violence.

Unless they're progressives....then it's totally ok and Twitter will leave it up.

NOTHING biased about that.

Rules for thee but not for me= progressive lefties.

 

[stickygirl]

It's been blissful not having to hear Trump's latest brainfart every fucking day. Thank you Twitter. Who gives a fuck about that loser anyway - he's history.

Assault on freedom of speech? Gimme a break - you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope

 

[Adre]

Bullshit, lies, and misinformation down 73% since the social media banning of Trump, Flynn and company.

 

[stickygirl]

Bullshit, lies, and misinformation down 73% since the social media banning of Trump, Flynn and company.

I hope that's true. What society can't allow if for the hysteria social media generates to carry on unchecked - we've seen the results. Our society has no way of dealing with the phenomena of a single twisted mind being able to bleat their violent message to an entire population. In the past we used to laugh at people like that in the pub - someone would explain quietly "He's a twat, don't pay him any attention" but now his reach is worldwide and he can hook up with all the other angry old men in bars everywhere. That isn't a normal state of affairs.

I'd prefer to live in a peaceful society and not have Twitter or FB, but then I don't have accounts in either so it wouldn't affect me in the least.

 

[LupusDei]

Bullshit, lies, and misinformation down 73% since the social media banning of Trump, Flynn and company.

About 20% of that banter originated from just 20 accounts.

 

[WillJ8787]

Twitter isn't/wasn't "deplatforming the right." They were "deplatforming" what they considered incitements to violence.

If someone wants to take it to court, go argue it out in court. It's a classic free speech issue. Not all "free speech" is allowed. We have a legal system that addresses this. Can't say the same for Russia.

Comparing what Twitter did to what Putin does to his opponents is just simplistic and ignorant.

Correct and Navalny and Russian don't have free speech and they censor Harshly all political opposition.... listening to them is like listening to a Fox who has a chicken in it's mouth as it say, " no, I don't eat chicken."

Here is their real view on this matter
Source:
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/a-list-of-russian-dissidents-moscow-is-accused-of-targeting-39454

 

[LupusDei]

Relevant here:

Cambridge Analytica, Bannon and The Mercer's...wealth behind it all.

Source:
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/08/76821...u-s-insurgency

Wylie warns that the company's tactics continue to be a threat to democracy. He notes that some of its former employees are currently working on the next Trump campaign.

"One of the reasons I wrote the book is to serve as a warning, particularly to Americans," he says. "We have a completely unregulated digital landscape. There is almost no oversight. We are placing blind trust in companies like Facebook to do the honorable and decent thing. ... Even if Cambridge Analytica doesn't exist anymore, what happens when China becomes the next Cambridge Analytica?"

 

[WillJ8787]

Relevant here:

I agree with many here in the USA being manipulated by the Russian infiltration of social media.

Manipulation on both side... Repubs and Dems
Russians have been highly successful at this...Putin loved the result of Trump because he could be played very easily.

You cannot trust anything that comes from Russia on this...

....except to listen to our experts on this...CIA, FBI, NSA and our intelligence experts.

 

[LupusDei]

You cannot trust anything that comes from Russia on this...

....except to listen to our experts on this...CIA, FBI, NSA and our intelligence experts.

For better or worse, I believe to have a leg on you on this, arguably messy, field.

 

[LupusDei]

By the way:

Jack Dorsey Says Trump's Twitter Ban Was 'Right Decision' But Worries About Precedent

Dorsey insisted the Internet should not be controlled by any one individual or corporation. This was the first time the Twitter CEO publicly addressed removing Trump from his platform. In his meandering Twitter thread, he said a decentralized alternative like that of Bitcoin, the digital currency, would be the best option for a free and open Internet.

He said, "This moment in time might call for this dynamic, but over the long term it will be destructive to the noble purpose and ideals of the open internet. A company making a business decision to moderate itself is different from a government removing access, yet can feel much the same."

 

[WillJ8787]

For better or worse, I believe to have a leg on you on this, arguably messy, field.

Yeah...it's a case of Humpty Dumpty...trying to put it back together again...after the big dismantling and exodus

 

[CornusKousa]

Bullshit, lies, and misinformation down 73% since the social media banning of Trump, Flynn and company.

According to progressives......who consider anything they don't like hearing "bullshit, lies and misinformation."......as they crank out RAW/Salon garbage 24/7.

 

[Adre]

^^^^Speaking of bullshit...

 

[CornusKousa]

I hope that's true. What society can't allow if for the hysteria social media generates to carry on unchecked -

Clearly something only the (R)'s and RW have a problem with.

That makes censorship good!!!

I can only pray this comes back to bit (D)'s in the ass.

 

[CornusKousa]

^^^^Speaking of bullshit...

Oh look the name caller who's never once done anything to back up his bluster but stamp his feet.

Hows life as a communist in S. Carolina?? Enjoying all that freedom you detest and seek to deny everyone else??

You really should move to California, have some courage of your convictions BOY.

Be a good little Newsom boot licker like Luk.

 

[CornusKousa]

WHY would Russian liberals reject censorship???

Because they're liberals....not pro censorship authoritarians.

Like the American (D)'s/left...who aren't liberal about anything except abolition.