Female-Led Relationships

[eroticspank]

Being one myself, I don't think there's anything wrong with being an idealist. It's difficult at times, but maintaining honest thoughts and doing one's best has become sort of a habit. I'm glad you mentioned true trust in this context, because that's the bedrock foundation. I think part of the difficulty a lot of people have with talking about trust is that they don't know what it is. They knew generally, but not specifically. Trust is the ability to predict behavior. There are all kinds of trust. There's the trust of your next door neighbor that you trust to borrow a tool or your car and knowing they'll return them in good condition. There is the trust of a soldier in the foxhole, where they trust their buddy to have their back no matter what mud hits the fan and then there is the trust of a lover, where you trust that person to not intentionally hurt/abuse you when you are at your most vulnerable physically and emotionally. I dream of trusting someone that much in an FLR, trusting them to take care of me with the same conscious care that I take with them. The price to pay is that development of that kind of trust takes time to earn and if that trust is ever broken the time to re-establish it multiplies a thousandfold and then the seams of the repair are still rough to the emotional skin. Pardon the epistle here, but it's something I've thought about a great deal.
Thank you for listening,

I would agree, I imagine it takes a while...especially the trust part. I feel like you are half way there when you are able to talk frankly with your partner about feelings, concerns, and even bedroom fantasies without fear of judgement.

ES

 

[policywank]

Putting aside the source. This same concept is taught in management and leadership courses and its basic operant conditioning from my psych 101 courses. It’s tied up in ethics also. And that’s not to say any leader won’t make selfish, self centered decisions at times.

My comment is more about how long it takes to develop the deep trust needed to surrender your vulnerability and the ways people surrender it.
Since I’ve realized I wanted some version of a woman led something with someone...I’ve really become aware of my stuff and the work needed in making a space for this in my life. I am doing this intentionally and with intentionality. because really I want to engender those feelings of safety, security, trust, etc. I want to cause someone to want to follow where I lead us - mistakes and all. Lol I want to be the leader they need and want. I want someone to trust me enough to surrender their vulnerability - all of it, everywhere. It sounds so corny, but I’m an idealist.
I appreciate the comments and conversation.

I think that being an idealist is the right approach (ideal if you will). In my opinion the trust that is necessary to build this type of relationship mandates that you consistently hold your self to the highest standards and never make excuses. That doesn't mean you won't make mistakes of course, but rather that you own them fully.

In traditional relationships we tend to displace blame or prioritize good intent over actual outcomes. Leaders don't get to do those things or when we do we don't get to pretend it is ok. If one is leading then one is responsible. "The buck stops here" so to speak.

It can add wonderful clarity to a relationship and truncate many of the reasons why we snip at each other. When something goes wrong it is on me but the corollary is that I make the decisions and my husband obeys. If things go wrong because he is disobedient there are consequences but I still own the overall outcome.

 

[policywank]

Being one myself, I don't think there's anything wrong with being an idealist. It's difficult at times, but maintaining honest thoughts and doing one's best has become sort of a habit. I'm glad you mentioned true trust in this context, because that's the bedrock foundation. I think part of the difficulty a lot of people have with talking about trust is that they don't know what it is. They knew generally, but not specifically. Trust is the ability to predict behavior. There are all kinds of trust. There's the trust of your next door neighbor that you trust to borrow a tool or your car and knowing they'll return them in good condition. There is the trust of a soldier in the foxhole, where they trust their buddy to have their back no matter what mud hits the fan and then there is the trust of a lover, where you trust that person to not intentionally hurt/abuse you when you are at your most vulnerable physically and emotionally. I dream of trusting someone that much in an FLR, trusting them to take care of me with the same conscious care that I take with them. The price to pay is that development of that kind of trust takes time to earn and if that trust is ever broken the time to re-establish it multiplies a thousandfold and then the seams of the repair are still rough to the emotional skin. Pardon the epistle here, but it's something I've thought about a great deal.
Thank you for listening,

I might go a step farther. The trust of a lover is not only to "not intentionally hurt/abuse you when you are at your most vulnerable". At least in an FLR it is also incumbent upon me to actively look forward, identify risk areas, consider my man's point of view and make sure I don't unintentionally hurt/abuse him either.

As with my last comment it isn't sufficient to have good intentions. I need to own outcomes too. It won't be perfect but I don't ever want to be in the situation where I hurt him and my response is that "I didn't mean to do that."

 

[Kitschshaman]

I might go a step farther. The trust of a lover is not only to "not intentionally hurt/abuse you when you are at your most vulnerable". At least in an FLR it is also incumbent upon me to actively look forward, identify risk areas, consider my man's point of view and make sure I don't unintentionally hurt/abuse him either.

As with my last comment it isn't sufficient to have good intentions. I need to own outcomes too. It won't be perfect but I don't ever want to be in the situation where I hurt him and my response is that "I didn't mean to do that."

I would posit to say you are a rare and wonderful leader in your FLR relationship. You are beautifully imbued with a deep sense of responsibility of your actions, which is the natural extension of love. A simple thing to say, but in my experience, not something I've experienced. I envy your partner, I truly do.

 

[Deleted member 1655181]

I might go a step farther. The trust of a lover is not only to "not intentionally hurt/abuse you when you are at your most vulnerable". At least in an FLR it is also incumbent upon me to actively look forward, identify risk areas, consider my man's point of view and make sure I don't unintentionally hurt/abuse him either.

As with my last comment it isn't sufficient to have good intentions. I need to own outcomes too. It won't be perfect but I don't ever want to be in the situation where I hurt him and my response is that "I didn't mean to do that."

You sound worthy of trust and respect: a true leader. Some of these others? I'd hate to be their bitch!!

 

[lady_jennaxx]

You sound worthy of trust and respect: a true leader. Some of these others? I'd hate to be their bitch!!

I would agree as I share the same sentiments. Thank you policywank

 

[policywank]

I would posit to say you are a rare and wonderful leader in your FLR relationship. You are beautifully imbued with a deep sense of responsibility of your actions, which is the natural extension of love. A simple thing to say, but in my experience, not something I've experienced. I envy your partner, I truly do.

Thank you. That is nice of you to say. Oddly enough the challenging part can be exercising the right amount of selfishness.

For instance, in our relationship I decide when we go out to dinner and where we go. If I choose a place that I know he likes he can enjoy that for what it is without offering to go to a different place - if I decide he obeys. But if I always chose where he wanted then he would see that I am subverting my preference to his in an unbalanced way. Not indulging myself sometimes would deny him the opportunity to be giving and obedient.

When it comes to obedience, the more challenging the direction I give him the more rewarding it is for him to demonstrate his obedience. So while I must be careful to take care of him I know he wants to be pushed.

If I push him in a pursuit that serves my desires his pleasure is multiplied. On some level there is a selfishness that he wishes to serve. And holding that back so as not to be feel selfish myself would deny him that pleasure, which in turn would be even more selfish if that makes any sense.

 

[policywank]

You sound worthy of trust and respect: a true leader. Some of these others? I'd hate to be their bitch!!

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[Kitschshaman]

Thank you. That is nice of you to say. Oddly enough the challenging part can be exercising the right amount of selfishness.

For instance, in our relationship I decide when we go out to dinner and where we go. If I choose a place that I know he likes he can enjoy that for what it is without offering to go to a different place - if I decide he obeys. But if I always chose where he wanted then he would see that I am subverting my preference to his in an unbalanced way. Not indulging myself sometimes would deny him the opportunity to be giving and obedient.

When it comes to obedience, the more challenging the direction I give him the more rewarding it is for him to demonstrate his obedience. So while I must be careful to take care of him I know he wants to be pushed.

If I push him in a pursuit that serves my desires his pleasure is multiplied. On some level there is a selfishness that he wishes to serve. And holding that back so as not to be feel selfish myself would deny him that pleasure, which in turn would be even more selfish if that makes any sense.

It makes all the sense in the world. I have been Dom for most of my life and in those relationships there was always for me the razor's edge of how and when to apply that selfishness. I spent a lot of time thinking and dreaming of how to push her in a way that would both excite me and take her to those places where she wanted to go but dared not?...if that makes any sense. And now that I find myself in the position of wanting to experience the other side I find myself looking for the same kind of conscious consideration that I felt was my responsibility. It's not a matter of being gentle or giving them exactly what they want all the time, it's more a matter of awareness of where they are in the moment..where is their heart, where is their mind, and once their mind is in the space where they feel the stars, how I could guide them to where they daren't go on their own. Now I'm aware that I want to feel that space myself. Does this make any sense at all? I'm probably dreaming of something that can never be, but seeing those such as you it keeps that ephemeral dream alive.
I thank you,

 

[BradG2365]

I would love to be in a FLR. I have always just preferred someone else to lead and make the decisions. And i am more concerned that the person i'm with is happy more than concerned about my own happiness.

 

[pplwatching]

And i am more concerned that the person i'm with is happy more than concerned about my own happiness.

I think that this is the wrong reason to enter into any relationship, much less a FLR. I don't think that any relationship can be healthy and thrive when one individual doesn't prioritize their own happiness. I think both people have to be equally concerned and invested in the other's happiness and personal satisfaction with the relationship. I think that the best leadership takes everyone's needs into consideration when making decisions.

 

[BradG2365]

I think that this is the wrong reason to enter into any relationship, much less a FLR. I don't think that any relationship can be healthy and thrive when one individual doesn't prioritize their own happiness. I think both people have to be equally concerned and invested in the other's happiness and personal satisfaction with the relationship. I think that the best leadership takes everyone's needs into consideration when making decisions.

Thats true. I agree with what you said. I often find that I don't express myself very well. Altho I usually do prefer to make sure the person I'm with is happy, I would also never do anything that I didn't want to do.

 

[Kitschshaman]

just a little bump for Lady Jenn, et al. This thread, like a relationship, deserves caring attention...

 

[Jerryluvsoral]

I am the wife in an FLR. My husband is completely submissive to me but has a pretty high level of responsibility in his job. That is part of why he likes to sub.

A number of my lovers are the same. Invariably it is the guys who are used to having responsibility and appreciate a break from it as long as they trust the woman to whom they cede control.

I agree with you, partially because of personal experience but also because I know a lady who is a former top end escort and wrote a book about it. She says most of her high end clients, business executives etc preferred to be led.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

It's important, as the leader, to impart the same level of respect that you demand

 

[naughtymind]

It's important, as the leader, to impart the same level of respect that you demand

So true for leadership of any sort. Probably why so many people are not particularly effective leaders.

 

[serve4her]

It's important, as the leader, to impart the same level of respect that you demand

While I haven't responded often I still follow this thread and have appreciated the thoughtful insights such as this one. This topic was only a fantasy for me for a very long time before I ever had a chance to explore it. While I had contemplated the nature of it in great detail, hearing other voices than the ones in my head are very much appreciated. My current relationship offers a chance to explore this dynamic, and discuss it as well, but it is nice to read about other peoples thought process as well.

Thank you and a hat tip to Lady_jennaxx for creating and fostering this thread.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

While I haven't responded often I still follow this thread and have appreciated the thoughtful insights such as this one. This topic was only a fantasy for me for a very long time before I ever had a chance to explore it. While I had contemplated the nature of it in great detail, hearing other voices than the ones in my head are very much appreciated. My current relationship offers a chance to explore this dynamic, and discuss it as well, but it is nice to read about other peoples thought process as well.

Thank you and a hat tip to Lady_jennaxx for creating and fostering this thread.

Thank you for your kind words serve4her

 

[irishblade]

I agree with you, partially because of personal experience but also because I know a lady who is a former top end escort and wrote a book about it. She says most of her high end clients, business executives etc preferred to be led.

I think it’s very common for those of us in power positions in our daily life to long to not be in a power position at home. I have to be both unfortunately, and it definitely hinders our intimacy levels.

 

[policywank]

It makes all the sense in the world. I have been Dom for most of my life and in those relationships there was always for me the razor's edge of how and when to apply that selfishness. I spent a lot of time thinking and dreaming of how to push her in a way that would both excite me and take her to those places where she wanted to go but dared not?...if that makes any sense. And now that I find myself in the position of wanting to experience the other side I find myself looking for the same kind of conscious consideration that I felt was my responsibility. It's not a matter of being gentle or giving them exactly what they want all the time, it's more a matter of awareness of where they are in the moment..where is their heart, where is their mind, and once their mind is in the space where they feel the stars, how I could guide them to where they daren't go on their own. Now I'm aware that I want to feel that space myself. Does this make any sense at all? I'm probably dreaming of something that can never be, but seeing those such as you it keeps that ephemeral dream alive.
I thank you,

Yes it makes a lot of sense. My submissive likes the idea that I am leading him to places that I want to go, but we both know that I am leading him to places that I want to take him. I want to share things with him for his sake as well things that I simply want to share for my sake. It is often a place that he dare not go on his own, but it also often a place that he can't go on his own. He can't be submissive without my dominance. He has a fertile mind so I would say that often I am probing his desires, but I also like to push his limits and find places to take him that he hadn't even thought of going.

His submission does allow me to push him further. Things that might cause him to hesitate will be done without question on my order. But as I said there are other places that he willingly goes but needs me to take him there. A simple thing like observing subtle submissive rules and performing subtle submissive gestures in public give him great pleasure and he is not at all hesitant or apprehensive. But he can't have that experience without me leading and giving the commands. Obedience to specific direction is the primary avenue of his submissiveness. Generalized obsequious behaviour is discouraged unless explicitly commanded.

My authority is rarely the by-product of enforcement and punishment. He wants to comply and he values his unbroken streak of wilful submission. He is motivated to please, continue receiving my direction and extend his impressive streak of unfailing obedience. Punishment is rarely required, but discipline is doled out generously in the forms that I know he finds stimulating.

 

[Scareltt]

Fascinating...

It makes all the sense in the world. I have been Dom for most of my life and in those relationships there was always for me the razor's edge of how and when to apply that selfishness. I spent a lot of time thinking and dreaming of how to push her in a way that would both excite me and take her to those places where she wanted to go but dared not?...if that makes any sense. And now that I find myself in the position of wanting to experience the other side I find myself looking for the same kind of conscious consideration that I felt was my responsibility. It's not a matter of being gentle or giving them exactly what they want all the time, it's more a matter of awareness of where they are in the moment..where is their heart, where is their mind, and once their mind is in the space where they feel the stars, how I could guide them to where they daren't go on their own. Now I'm aware that I want to feel that space myself. Does this make any sense at all? I'm probably dreaming of something that can never be, but seeing those such as you it keeps that ephemeral dream alive.
I thank you,

I’ve always thought that Submissive people could become exceptional Dominants, because they understand the Submissive frame of mind. So why couldn’t a Dominant become a wonderful Submissive?

I’d be interested to hear how this works for you..

 

[gregy70]

I’m loving reading these posts.
Thankyou to those who contribute.
To be led to places I’d dare not go on my own. Mmmm.
So dreamy

 

[Kitschshaman]

Yes it makes a lot of sense. My submissive likes the idea that I am leading him to places that I want to go, but we both know that I am leading him to places that I want to take him. I want to share things with him for his sake as well things that I simply want to share for my sake. It is often a place that he dare not go on his own, but it also often a place that he can't go on his own. He can't be submissive without my dominance. He has a fertile mind so I would say that often I am probing his desires, but I also like to push his limits and find places to take him that he hadn't even thought of going.

His submission does allow me to push him further. Things that might cause him to hesitate will be done without question on my order. But as I said there are other places that he willingly goes but needs me to take him there. A simple thing like observing subtle submissive rules and performing subtle submissive gestures in public give him great pleasure and he is not at all hesitant or apprehensive. But he can't have that experience without me leading and giving the commands. Obedience to specific direction is the primary avenue of his submissiveness. Generalized obsequious behaviour is discouraged unless explicitly commanded.

My authority is rarely the by-product of enforcement and punishment. He wants to comply and he values his unbroken streak of wilful submission. He is motivated to please, continue receiving my direction and extend his impressive streak of unfailing obedience. Punishment is rarely required, but discipline is doled out generously in the forms that I know he finds stimulating.

In my role as Dom, I was hyper-aware of her and whether what I was doing to her and with her, the places I was taking her, were what she wanted. Her intimate willingness, her enthusiasm (non-verbal and subtle as it was) was paramount and an innate requirement for my pleasure. It was not verbal, but the smallest gesture on her part of how she perhaps tilted her head, or the softest sound from her throat, or her stomach quivering were my cues. Watching her, feeling her respond to being taken to those spaces is/was the greatest turn-on for me. My great desire now is, as I have said, to be taken, to be cared for with the same sense of responsibility. How do you sense where your sub is emotionally? What do you watch for? I know it's the most delicate intimate dance there is, to know your partner, how to push and when and where and that takes time to develop. How do you sense your partner?

 

[Rockymtnman]

I’ve been in sexual relationships where the woman is the aggressor in starting the relationship but my natural personality is to lead and it tends to lean that way once the sex starts. I, of course, take suggestions but not commands.

 

[naughtymind]

Putting aside the source. This same concept is taught in management and leadership courses and its basic operant conditioning from my psych 101 courses. It’s tied up in ethics also. And that’s not to say any leader won’t make selfish, self centered decisions at times.

My comment is more about how long it takes to develop the deep trust needed to surrender your vulnerability and the ways people surrender it.
Since I’ve realized I wanted some version of a woman led something with someone...I’ve really become aware of my stuff and the work needed in making a space for this in my life. I am doing this intentionally and with intentionality. because really I want to engender those feelings of safety, security, trust, etc. I want to cause someone to want to follow where I lead us - mistakes and all. Lol I want to be the leader they need and want. I want someone to trust me enough to surrender their vulnerability - all of it, everywhere. It sounds so corny, but I’m an idealist.
I appreciate the comments and conversation.

You sound like you’re spot on with your process. I know that some people do, but I would never ever follow someone who didn’t capture my respect and inspire me to want to see where they could take me and how much more interesting they would make my life. I could also never follow someone who lacked respect and admiration for me, and the gifts that I would bring them.