Across the Pond from America

[LLCox]

btw if that's you in the snow with the hat an' all, you look quite hot. Only saying

You have good taste

 

[stickygirl]

You have good taste

OMG that latest AV is kinda Freudian. I do hope you've got more shells

 

[LLCox]

OMG that latest AV is kinda Freudian. I do hope you've got more shells

Hey, geta room

 

[oggbashan]

The French are still insisting that EU fishermen (who are mainly French) should still catch more than 80% of fish in British waters after Brexit.

It is about time someone told them to get real.

 

[DeYaKen]

The French are still insisting that EU fishermen (who are mainly French) should still catch more than 80% of fish in British waters after Brexit.

It is about time someone told them to get real.

I think you will find that the majority of fish caught by EU fishermen in British waters are caught by Spanish fishermen. Most of the fish landed in Britain is sold to Europe.

 

[oggbashan]

I think you will find that the majority of fish caught by EU fishermen in British waters are caught by Spanish fishermen. Most of the fish landed in Britain is sold to Europe.

My seaside town has six registered commercial fishermen. Because of the current quotas, they can each fish only two days a month by line.

Yet every day they see French trawlers, from Calais, Boulogne and Etaples scooping up everything up to 400 yards offshore.

Is it any wonder they are angry?

 

[DeYaKen]

My seaside town has six registered commercial fishermen. Because of the current quotas, they can each fish only two days a month by line.

Yet every day they see French trawlers, from Calais, Boulogne and Etaples scooping up everything up to 400 yards offshore.

Is it any wonder they are angry?

Never mind, January the first will bring Fishery protection vessels to Ramsgate and Dover. They will be able to fish every day and try to sell the catch on the quayside. Problem then will be that they can't get a good price for their fish because import tariffs to the EU will price British Caught fish out of the EU market. We Brits don't eat that much fish. The best thing that could come out of the exit would be an extension of No Fishing zones. The fishing industry was dying before we joined the EU. Take a trip up to the North East coast and look at the remains of the Herring fleets that plied there trade there until the 1960s.

Over fishing and the use of trawl nets that effectively destroy the seabed has left more fishermen chasing fewer fish. There is this romantic idea that fishing fleets will return to British ports after Jan 1st but we will soon see that for the Myth that it is. What you might see is French and Spanish vessels being registered in Britain, thus enabling them to fish in British waters. However they will still operate out of their home port spending as little time in Britain as they can to keep their registration active. looks like fun times ahead.

 

[stickygirl]

I know this is politics thread and we growl and grouse, but I'm gonna have to say... Lewis Hamilton
Wow

 

[oggbashan]

I know this is politics thread and we growl and grouse, but I'm gonna have to say... Lewis Hamilton
Wow

And he wants black racers in Formula one. He is a role model for many UK black youngsters.

But racing at any level is so expensive that getting behind the wheel of any competitive car in any formula needs significant backing. Starting is hard for anyone, black or white and particularly women.

 

[stickygirl]

That's the thing with racing - you're judged by results but Charlie Martin is my go-to girl

 

[oggbashan]

That's the thing with racing - you're judged by results but Charlie Martin is my go-to girl

You could be the greatest driver in the world, but if you haven't got a competitive car you won't win. You need financial backing and great engineers.

Winning requires money and team work.

 

[jaF0]

Soooo, like what's up with the Irish Justice?

 

[stickygirl]

Soooo, like what's up with the Irish Justice?

I like it

 

[Dribble]

The French are still insisting that EU fishermen (who are mainly French) should still catch more than 80% of fish in British waters after Brexit.

It is about time someone told them to get real.

And from what i have heard...your country decided it didn't have to pay the negotiated brexit bill. Maybe if you honored your word...then when you raised concerns...which do sound legitimate...things would change? You need them more than they need you.

Trump Lesson #1...we don't need China. China says fuck you and signs the World's largest free-trade agreement. Don't be like us.

 

[oggbashan]

And from what i have heard...your country decided it didn't have to pay the negotiated brexit bill. Maybe if you honored your word...then when you raised concerns...which do sound legitimate...things would change? You need them more than they need you.

Trump Lesson #1...we don't need China. China says fuck you and signs the World's largest free-trade agreement. Don't be like us.

No. We are still on course to pay the massive Brexit bill but the EU is insisting on overfishing UK waters (They want AT LEAST 80%!) and ensuring that the UK follows EU standards on goods without saying what they might be in future...

 

[DeYaKen]

No. We are still on course to pay the massive Brexit bill but the EU is insisting on overfishing UK waters (They want AT LEAST 80%!) and ensuring that the UK follows EU standards on goods without saying what they might be in future...

Sorry Ogg, but you are distorting the facts again. The EU has not insisted on an 80% share of fishing rights. They are insisting on some access in return for a trade deal.

The EU are not insisting that the UK must follow EU standards on goods. What they are saying is that goods imported to the EU must conform to EU standards. That's pretty universal with every country. It used to be with Britain until it was recently changed to smooth the way for the import of US agricultural products.

The main hurdle, apart from fishing is the government support of private companies. The EU want us to observe their rules governing government subsidies. This is to ensure that their own companies are not disadvantaged by competing with heavily subsidised goods from an increasingly desperate UK.

While Britain has not said they will refuse to pay the divorce bill they have repeatedly hinted at it in their unoficial media releases. The UK are currently trying to force a bill through parliament which breaks the terms of the divorce agreement and will force a hard border in Northern Ireland. The government has admitted that they are breaking International Law with this Bill but don't care. This endangers the Good Friday Agreement and is now likely to stand in the way of a US trade agreement

Given all this we must bear in mind that no matter what happens, it is all the fault of those nasty ogres in the EU.

 

[oggbashan]

...

Given all this we must bear in mind that no matter what happens, it is all the fault of those nasty ogres in the EU.

The latest information I have seen on fishing (last couple of days in a quality newspaper ) is that the EU is prepared to let the UK keep 'teens' of the catch. That means 80% or more to the EU.

As for subsidies? Yes, the EU has rules which it wants the UK to follow as it has done up to now - but the French and Italians have been ignoring them particularly for train companies. Why should the UK sign up for something the EU ignores inside itself?

As for breaking the agreement on Northern Ireland? I think that is wrong and misguided but the government is worried that as it stands the agreement could be used by the EU to force NI away from the UK. That is an unlikely scenario but it upsets the Ulster Unionists. Whether those concerns are enough to break an agreement? I don't think they should be.

 

[Dribble]

Cut and pasted from the BBC...

"The UK formally left the EU on 31 January, but is still bound by the EU's rules, including its Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), until the end of this year.

That means the fishing fleets of every country involved have full access to each other's waters, apart from the first 12 nautical miles out from the coast."

So those boats being complained about are 100% legal until the end of the year. The sticking point...the fishing rights is a precursor to any future free trade agreement. Sounds totally fair. You left...not the EU. So you can keep your fishing rights and not have free trade with the EU...or you can give up 80% of the rights and have free trade. Why should the EU give you free trade? What do you have to offer?

 

[DeYaKen]

The latest information I have seen on fishing (last couple of days in a quality newspaper ) is that the EU is prepared to let the UK keep 'teens' of the catch. That means 80% or more to the EU.

As for subsidies? Yes, the EU has rules which it wants the UK to follow as it has done up to now - but the French and Italians have been ignoring them particularly for train companies. Why should the UK sign up for something the EU ignores inside itself?

As for breaking the agreement on Northern Ireland? I think that is wrong and misguided but the government is worried that as it stands the agreement could be used by the EU to force NI away from the UK. That is an unlikely scenario but it upsets the Ulster Unionists. Whether those concerns are enough to break an agreement? I don't think they should be.

I believe the figure you quote refers not just to British waters but to European waters. If a deal allows EU fishing vessels to fish British waters Britain will be allowed to fish in theirs. Counting Britain there are ,at least, ten Maritime nations that share those waters so eighteen per cent is a good deal. While French and Spanish vessels want to fish Britain's southern and North Eastern waters, fishermaen from the West of Scotland are talking about moving to Ireland to ensure unrestricted access to the Langestine market and access to Irish waters.

No deal would probably be the best solution for conservation but only if the British Government learns from Norway. Unfortunately, I doubt they will be that sensible. They will let the market decide. If there are tariffs on British fish the European market will dry up so that will put even more fishermen out of work and conservation will be acheived that way.

Regarding subsidy laws. They only work if countries use them. Britain has also broken the rules on trains, just look at the amount of taxpayers money spent building the Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe. EU countries have not taken this to court as train are not consumer items and there is not a huge level of competition. The problem is we Brits like to moan about Johnny Foreigner not playing by the rules but we are unwilling to gather the evidence and take it to court.

 

[stickygirl]

Sound advice for enjoying a UK Christmas
https://64.media.tumblr.com/1e3fb3ddf8251942fac832d52bb2aaeb/429be81fafa6b130-49/s640x960/68c825ba20e414440dd4786406dd8e667d3ca30a.jpg

Who invented Monopoly, or as it was called by its inventor The Landlord's Game. Interesting read
#metoo

 

[oggbashan]

I believe the figure you quote refers not just to British waters but to European waters. If a deal allows EU fishing vessels to fish British waters Britain will be allowed to fish in theirs. Counting Britain there are ,at least, ten Maritime nations that share those waters so eighteen per cent is a good deal. While French and Spanish vessels want to fish Britain's southern and North Eastern waters, fishermaen from the West of Scotland are talking about moving to Ireland to ensure unrestricted access to the Langestine market and access to Irish waters.

No deal would probably be the best solution for conservation but only if the British Government learns from Norway. Unfortunately, I doubt they will be that sensible. They will let the market decide. If there are tariffs on British fish the European market will dry up so that will put even more fishermen out of work and conservation will be acheived that way.

Regarding subsidy laws. They only work if countries use them. Britain has also broken the rules on trains, just look at the amount of taxpayers money spent building the Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe. EU countries have not taken this to court as train are not consumer items and there is not a huge level of competition. The problem is we Brits like to moan about Johnny Foreigner not playing by the rules but we are unwilling to gather the evidence and take it to court.

No. It is 80% of the catch in British waters. The EU want MORE than 80%. But most fish landed in British ports is sold to Europe so gaining more for British fishermen if they can't sell to Europe would also be bad.

But Boris Johnson is in a cleft stick. If he gives ground on fishing to gain concessions elsewhere he could face a significant revolt from his own MPs. He might not be able to get such a Brexit through Parliament.

PS: How would Americans react if 80% of fish in US territorial waters was reserved for Canada and Mexico?

Edited for PPS: The UK's quality newspapers are reporting today that the EU's current best offer is that the UK could keep between 15% and 18% of the quota for fish in BRITISH waters. That is worse than the current position. President Macron of France has been warned by French fishermen that if the EU gets less than 80% they will blockade all channel ports...

 

[DeYaKen]

No. It is 80% of the catch in British waters. The EU want MORE than 80%. But most fish landed in British ports is sold to Europe so gaining more for British fishermen if they can't sell to Europe would also be bad.

But Boris Johnson is in a cleft stick. If he gives ground on fishing to gain concessions elsewhere he could face a significant revolt from his own MPs. He might not be able to get such a Brexit through Parliament.

PS: How would Americans react if 80% of fish in US territorial waters was reserved for Canada and Mexico?

Edited for PPS: The UK's quality newspapers are reporting today that the EU's current best offer is that the UK could keep between 15% and 18% of the quota for fish in BRITISH waters. That is worse than the current position. President Macron of France has been warned by French fishermen that if the EU gets less than 80% they will blockade all channel ports...

First neither the French fishermen nor president Macron are involved in the negotiations.

Second We chose to leave and have done so. What is happening now is that we the British are trying to get access to the market we chose to leave and the EU are telling us what the terms are. All this was wholly predictable. The question is would British fishermen be better off having 100% of the catch but finding themselves priced out of their biggest market or would they be better off cutting a deal? It's no different from the time McDonald Douglas stole the Harrier from British Aerospace. US law allowed them to get around all the patents and British Aerospace was offered 15% of all the Harriers made or 100% of the British market only. If the EU applies tariffs on British fish UK fishermen could have 100% of the catch but would have to accept a lower price in order to sell it.

The problem the UK government now has is that they told the people they had an "Oven Ready "deal when they didn't. They told us that the EU needed us more than we need them. If that was the case we could have just sat back and waited for them to come to us. Mr Johnson keeps telling us that the EU is not respecting the fact that we are now a sovereign nation. He makes no mention of the fact that he trying to treat the EU countries as if they were not sovereign. They are and it is up to them what deal they will accept. The lies are now coming home to roost Instead of Britain becoming the land of milk and honey we are now having to decide which industries are more important to us.

All this is being used to hide yet another problem. On 1st of Jan we lose 79 free trade agreements we had via the EU with non-EU countries. To date, 39 of those have been rolled over and a new one negotiated with Japan. That's taken three years. Now the myth of countries "queueing up" to do trade deal with Britain has been exposed and the EU deal has become even more important. The time has come to decide what they are going to sacrifice in order to soften the pain of severance.

 

[oggbashan]

First neither the French fishermen nor president Macron are involved in the negotiations.

Maybe not in theory but Macron is setting the terms on fish, despite other EU leaders pleading with him to soften his stance.

The time has come to decide what they are going to sacrifice in order to soften the pain of severance.

Yes, but fishing quotas have far more political significance than almost anything. The British government cannot agree to worse than the current situation without facing a major revolt which could scupper ANY deal.

The EU negotiators know that but have been not allowed to move their position because of Macron who fears popular unrest if the EU gets less fishing access than now.

Edited for PS: If the British government has NO deal because of fish, they will survive politically. If they agree to more fish to the EU, the general public could throw them out next election. They were elected on a promise of achieving Brexit. No deal would be that. Giving more than 80% of fish in UK waters would be seen as a surrender for which the Conservatives would not survive.

PPS. If the UK ends up with No Deal because of fish, the UK Government will blame the French and specifically Macron. Blaming the French has been politically attractive for hundreds of years and the UK government would be delighted to do that. It has also been popular in the US. Remember 'freedom fries'?

PPPS: If No Deal is the outcome, the UK could ban ALL EU fishing from British waters to put pressure on the French. They are unlikely to do that but more Fishing Protection vessels are being built and there are contingency plans to hire larger ships such as Oil platform support vessels equipped with high power water jets for fire-fighting. The UK has learned from the Icelandic cod wars and will not use expensive and fragile warships.

 

[bodysong]

Atlanta Black Star
Twitter › ATLBlackStar

“I Was Losing Consciousness’:
Video Captures Several British Metropolitan Officers Assaulting
Black Female Student During Traffic Stop

(link)

1 day ago

2011

The disconnect became obvious, when "Katty" B. Kay arrived, to interview
a highly respected member of a minority community, and insinuated that
he might instigate a riot. Her ignorance and her cluelessness became obvious,
when she asked him directly. She attacked a peace maker, for a headline.
It had nothing to do with reality or facts.

The police killed Mark Duggan, and covered it up.

The unrest continued because the Metro officers were treating young minority
people with brutality, for no reason.

Here we are, close to welcoming 2021, and racism and inequality are causing people
to suffer unjustified brutality, and unjust death.

24 November 2020

Eight officers are under investigation after a black woman was pinned to the ground
and punched during an arrest, the Metropolitan Police has confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55019778

 

[oggbashan]

Atlanta Black Star
Twitter › ATLBlackStar

“I Was Losing Consciousness’:
Video Captures Several British Metropolitan Officers Assaulting
Black Female Student During Traffic Stop

(link)

1 day ago

2011

The disconnect became obvious, when "Katty" B. Kay arrived, to interview
a highly respected member of a minority community, and insinuated that
he might instigate a riot. Her ignorance and her cluelessness became obvious,
when she asked him directly. She attacked a peace maker, for a headline.
It had nothing to do with reality or facts.

The police killed Mark Duggan, and covered it up.

The unrest continued because the Metro officers were treating young minority
people with brutality, for no reason.

Here we are, close to welcoming 2021, and racism and inequality are causing people
to suffer unjustified brutality, and unjust death.

24 November 2020

Eight officers are under investigation after a black woman was pinned to the ground
and punched during an arrest, the Metropolitan Police has confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55019778

This is a biased report:

Eight officers are under investigation after a black woman was pinned to the ground and punched during an arrest, the Metropolitan Police has confirmed.

Which is as it should be - not what happens in the US.