Flashbacks/Switching to another persons perspective

[Beneaththesurface]

Need some opinions and its kind of hard to explain so here goes. Before I ever even knew about LIT or even thought about writing a story to publish, my wife and I decided to try to write one. (it is over 25k words so far). She likes to read more than write so there are only several parts (much shorter than mine) that sort of flashes back to the female characters perspective (most of the story is written from the males).

The story is about a couple that has been married a long time and are planning to move away and start a new life together. The story begins with the husband going away for a while to look for jobs and a house while she stays home but later comes down to visit and they both begin to explore some new things together. Periodically, the story goes to her telling her side. The first chapter ( an introduction and his side so far) is ready for submission. I’m looking for ideas on how to handle this as far as chapters and such. Not sure if I should submit the next part (her side back at home) as chapter 2 and some how title it or just some how make a note of those parts throughout the story. Or will the reader just pick up on what’s going on? I know this is pretty vague so I will put a sample below and see what you all think I could do. Thanks in advance.

(Male character, beginning and end of chapter 1)
Over the years my wife and I have grown to not be so fond of the winters here in the northern part of the country. We don’t mind having some nice fluffy snow for Christmas but that rarely happens anymore. It is usually either windy and cold or a wet muddy mess. We believe that we would prefer to live in a location with a bit milder of a climate. One day we plan to move south where we can enjoy more warmth and sunshine........

.....“Happily married—faithful, that’s what you all say,” she smugly replies.

She slides her chair away from the table to reveal that the tank top is all she has on, no bottoms, no shorts, nothing but the tank.

“You want me as much as I want you,” she tempts, “She is a thousand miles away and would never need to know.”

As tempting as it sounds, I respond, “I’m flattered but we need to keep this job oriented.”

“You will change your mind, I’m sure of that, ” she replies before walking off like a spoiled brat.

While driving out the back gate my mind drifts back home, longing to hold my wife in my arms.

(Beginning of Female part, it’s just a draft and still needs editing)
As she climbed into an empty bed,She discovered it’s difficult to sleep without him there beside her. She missed his strong arms around her, his rough hands caressing her waist, his mouth. He is out of town searching for a new beginning for them. They had always talked of moving South, finding a different way and he was trying to make that happen for her, for them. Her mind raced as she tried to drift off to sleep...how could she be so selfish, so ungrateful. She took him for granted for many years and she felt guilt for that.....

 

[HeyAll]

I like using Bold headlines to make things as clear as possible. Switching perspectives is fun and can make the story hotter if done right. I've never done a flashback though.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Keep it simple. I use scene breaks

* * * *

to designate a major shift of scene, and that would include a flashback. Use context to make it clear it's a flashback, but you don't need to label it or use flashing lights to announce it. Readers are clever, so you can be subtle.

I have a recent story where the story flashes back forty years - I made it clear that it was back in the past by using the character's name (she's already established in the present as an elegant, older woman) in the first sentence of the flashback scene, then immediately establish her as a young woman by referring to her clothing, telephoning someone with a piece of paper and pencil in her hand, and getting on to double decker bus with a conductor. You don't need to do much to establish it's not now. Trust your readers to get it.

 

[SimonDoom]

There are many ways to switch perspectives. The most successful way, usually, is to use third person omniscient point of view and to switch at the end of a scene. I agree with EB that you can do this by using a series of asterisks. That's sufficient.

A few thoughts, based on what you've written so far:

1. Your male point of view is in first person, but the start of the female point of view is in third person. Don't do that. It's confusing. You can switch back and forth between two first person POVs at the scene break, or you can switch back and forth between third person POVs, but I recommend you do NOT switch between third and first person POV. It's confusing.

2. Be careful about shifting tenses. The small sample you gave shifts between present and past tense. I think past tense is usually better. It's more familiar and usually better received. If you choose to write in present tense, make sure you are consistent.

 

[AlexBailey]

In the parts you've posted here, you've written the male parts in first person and the female parts in third person.

The first part, the male is "I" (first person) and the female is referred to as 'she' (third person). In the second part, the female is 'she' (third person) and the male is referred to as 'him' (third person).


If you intend to switch narrators for the female parts, the female voice should switch to 'I' (first person) for those parts as well. It can work well as long as you make the change between chapters clear.

Also, when you write in first person present tense, it's fairly easy to designate flashbacks by having the first person present tense character refer to things that happened before in past tense. Trying to designate flashbacks while already writing in past tense can require some authorial gymnastics.



The author 'yukonnights' has published many stories where all characters are written in first person even within the same chapters, largely by keeping each voice in separate paragraphs and a host of other clever tricks. It takes a moment to get used, but it is very immersive. He has made it work very well. I'll be very surprised if he doesn't chime in on this thread.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

My entire series 'Mike & Karen' is a series of current stores paid with flashbacks that explain how the two eponymous characters fit together back in the late 80's. To be honest, because it opens up and entirely new story front for my established characters.

 

[Rustyoznail]

I have to disagree with EB. Using “=“ is visually much better than “*”

Being serious, using a visual break is how I change scenes or perspective.

 

[SisterJezabel]

I have to disagree with EB. Using “=“ is visually much better than “*”

Being serious, using a visual break is how I change scenes or perspective.

I use ~*~*~*~*~ just to be different ;-)

Done well switching perspectives can give more insight to the reader especially if they are both first person. I have read stories where the character is named in bold at the top of the section. Sometimes the other character repeats what has happened in their perspective, but often it just carries on and some of their perspective can be interweaved in...

~*~*~*~*~
Jack

I could not believe she had fallen for what I believed was the oldest trick in the book, but here she was stretched out naked on my bed blah blah blah...

~*~*~*~*~
Jill

Perhaps it was his naivety that struck me the most, thinking he could use some pick up lines to get me to his bed, but little did he know I was there before he opened his mouth. What he did not know was I had my moves that, if used correctly, I hoped would keep him in bed with me for more than the few minutes he may have initially imagined...

 

[yukonnights]

While AlexBailey referenced a style of writing I enjoy and believe in, I wouldn't recommend that for what you're doing here. But, I too am currently writing a story that jumps around on the timeline. In that story, and in a number of my stories, I'll use sub-titled chapter breaks. Hopefully this example gives you some ideas how to keep your timeline clear (I don't expect my my made up sub-chapter titles to be very accurate.)

(Also, I changed a line of your second part to first person so you can see how that might work for you. The pov tense you use is up to you, but I - and I know other authors - think that, for erotica, the first person pov is a bit more "present" than third person. I think a lot of the decision revolves around your preference and the kind of story you've written. If it's few characters and dialogue rich, I like first person. If it a tale told around a campfire kind of story with a lot of characters and their inner dialogue/thoughts along with narrative description, the third person works good, etc.

Good luck on your writing and welcome to Lit. Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions.
*******

— Testing the Waters - November 13, 2020 Jacksonville, FL.


.....“Happily married—faithful, that’s what you all say,” she smugly replies.

She slides her chair away from the table to reveal that the tank top is all she has on, no bottoms, no shorts, nothing but the tank.

“You want me as much as I want you,” she tempts, “She is a thousand miles away and would never need to know.” etc, etc, etc ...


— Our Journey Begins - April 1, 1999 Chicago, IL.


As she climbed into an empty bed,She discovered it’s difficult to sleep without him there beside her, etc.... As I climb into an empty bed, I discover it's difficult to sleep without him there beside me. <( I think you can see from this that the reader instantly knows it's "her" thoughts when it's in first person pov. But the reader has also transported back in time because of the date sub-header, etc. The one thing to keep in mind is to make sure the reader knows who is thinking. An option; if you think you need it, you could include the name of the pov character in the sub-title. If it's mostly just you and her it should be pretty easy to keep it clear.

 

[ElectricBlue]

How many times do you see headers and signposts for flashbacks or different points of view in mainstream literature? I can't think of many examples at all, and I've read thousands of novels.

Trust your readers - if your writing is clear and coherent, they'll figure it out.

 

[yukonnights]

How many times do you see headers and signposts for flashbacks or different points of view in mainstream literature? I can't think of many examples at all, and I've read thousands of novels.

Trust your readers - if your writing is clear and coherent, they'll figure it out.

Meh, I think you're nit-picking on this one. I personally don't really care what one sees in mainstream literature. This isn't mainstream literature. If the OP decides they like writing and publishing here, then like many who write here, they'll probably expand their skills over time.

If incorporating a header makes the flow smoother, which I think it does, then that's all that matters. Sure it could also be done with some rewriting. But as I understand the OP's question; This is a first story effort - The wife doesn't write much - The story is already partially written with +/- 25k words. A vague — write clear and coherent — isn't much help IMO.

I'd rather encourage an easier path to making it work in this situation. It seems to be important to the author that the two different recollections of feelings/thoughts are separate and distinct. The headers do this.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'd rather encourage an easier path to making it work in this situation. It seems to be important to the author that the two different recollections of feelings/thoughts are separate and distinct. The headers do this.

They do, but I don't think they encourage better writing. There are any number of ways to clearly articulate who is who, and who is when.

My analogy is this - GoogleMaps is great for getting around quickly, but if people forget how to read maps, where would we be? Learning how to get around without signposts is like learning how to read maps. Once you know, you don't ever forget.

We should be encouraging writers to get better, not be lazy and learn nothing. Saying Lit isn't mainstream is an excuse - in terms of on-line smut, it is mainstream.

Writers get better by setting their standards higher, not lower, I reckon. Maybe that's just me .

 

[SimonDoom]

Writers get better by setting their standards higher, not lower, I reckon. Maybe that's just me .

I'm not sure it's a matter of high standards/low standards on this particular question, but I tend to agree with you about the use of a simple scene break with asterisks (or whatever) versus more prominent chapter headings or use of the character names in headings.

I personally feel that, most of the time, a story reads better if the narrator's presence and story mechanics are as unobtrusive as possible. As you say, trust the reader. The reader will do just fine as long as your method is clear and consistent, whatever it is.

As an author, before you write more elaborate chapter headings or use character names, think about WHY you want to do this. What does it really add? I just think most of the time it adds the narrator's unnecessary presence, and I don't want that. But you might have reasons of your own in your story what you want it that way. Just think about it and be mindful of your choices, and also of the consideration for your reader.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I normally try to make it clear who is speaking just through the descriptions, using he-said-she-said as needed.

I do use the plus sign (+) as a break when needed.

I did one short story (House of Feathers - A Contest) which was entirely first-person POV, but with the POV constantly shifting between the male and female characters and without any indication there having been a change. It was fun to write and did pretty well in terms of votes, but I haven't tried it again - just an experiment.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I personally feel that, most of the time, a story reads better if the narrator's presence and story mechanics are as unobtrusive as possible. As you say, trust the reader. The reader will do just fine as long as your method is clear and consistent, whatever it is.

As an author, before you write more elaborate chapter headings or use character names, think about WHY you want to do this. What does it really add? I just think most of the time it adds the narrator's unnecessary presence, and I don't want that.

That's the key - trusting yourself as the writer to navigate clearly, trusting your reader to follow. I think many of the ploys offered here are folk not doing one or the other or both.

Many of my stories have pov and temporal shifts, sometimes quite complex, and the only cue I've ever used has been * * * * breaks and context. Not once have I had someone say, "I can't follow this story." Maybe their brain has melted down, I don't know .

 

[yukonnights]

Seems to me that the above opinions all fail to take into consideration the OP's original question; "The first chapter ( an introduction and his side so far) is ready for submission. I’m looking for ideas on how to handle this as far as chapters and such. Not sure if I should submit the next part (her side back at home) as chapter 2 and some how title it or just some how make a note of those parts throughout the story."

The majority of advice has been to basically rewrite the story and apply skills that may or may not be learned at this point. OP specifically asked about how to identify the transitions throughout the story. Of course it's nice to have the experience to craft a masterpiece of prose, but that isn't much help in this question.

There is also value in getting that first story published. I still think my suggestion is the most applicable for this goal. I will add to that by urging the OP to have someone proofread the story before submission for publication.

 

[Beneaththesurface]

Special Thanks

Thanks to each of you who commented. I got some great input and I appreciate the taking of your valuable time to respond to help. I am reviewing my story and using your suggestions as a guide. No matter what I end up using, I take all of it in for education and tools to improve.

Just a little background on me. I’ve never thought of even writing anything at all before this (erotic or otherwise). To make a long story short my marriage of almost 25 years fell into a rut with work, kids, everyday life. Sex slowly became very low on the priority list so I decided to start writing her stories and emailing them to her to try to spice things up. Well it worked and she thought they were good and likes reading them. She even replied back on this one with a few parts of her own. So here I am, bitten by the writers bug.

I think yukonnights hit the nail on the head when he said, “apply skills that may or may not be learned at this point”, I’m not trying to be lazy, I’m just trying to become a better writer and like anything else it takes practice and I am not expecting my first stories to be masterpieces, but I do expect to improve and learn as I submit more and more.

Also, I do agree about having my stories proofread. Unfortunately, I’ve made inquiries to over 20 volunteer editors and only got a reply back from one that they are to busy. I finally gave up and decided to start submitting instead of waiting for months looking for one. So if any of you have suggestions on finding one please chime in. Until then I am going to continue to write and take feedback from my readers and this board to improve the next. I hope you get used to me in here because I find your input valuable.

 

[JGittes]

Also, I do agree about having my stories proofread. Unfortunately, I’ve made inquiries to over 20 volunteer editors and only got a reply back from one that they are to busy. I finally gave up and decided to start submitting instead of waiting for months looking for one. So if any of you have suggestions on finding one please chime in. Until then I am going to continue to write and take feedback from my readers and this board to improve the next. I hope you get used to me in here because I find your input valuable.

I started writing erotic fiction after six months of instant messaging with my wife during a temporary remote assignment. We both agreed that the IM turned out extremely well, and maybe we should attempt something more coherent. I had written hundreds of professional, technical reports and papers, but nothing fiction. (Well, my colleagues might disagree about that.)

I have nothing to add on the merits of the discussion, my vague thoughts have all been covered more eloquently by everyone above. I do have something to suggest about proofreading. I tried the volunteer route you described, with similar results. I did find someone, a professional editor, who I worked with for awhile and found very helpful for the technical aspects, but not so much for story construction and development. They were also not free.

I know this will meet with some derision here, but I've been using the paid (definitely not the free) version of Grammarly for a couple of years now, and find it very helpful. One may disagree with its style (or lack thereof) or excessive need for commas, but it allows me to look at my work as if it is not my own. The first time I ran a 20K word manuscript through Grammarly, it reported 1.2K errors. It was disheartening to know I was so stupid, but the physical process of plowing through all the corrections forced me to disassociate from the ego involved in criticizing my personal creation. It made it much easier to do the proofing. I winnowed the list down to the last five or six sentences that Grammarly identified as, I don't recall the exact tag, complex to the point of incoherency. It was painfully obvious that those sentences were attempting to do more work than they could carry in advancing the plot, transitioning between scenes or just being clever.

It certainly doesn't help with plotting, character development or story construction. For that matter it doesn't help with my biggest problem, verb consistency in past tense. It does help over time to get the technical aspects under more control.

 

[tomlitilia]

Also, I do agree about having my stories proofread. Unfortunately, I’ve made inquiries to over 20 volunteer editors and only got a reply back from one that they are to busy. I finally gave up and decided to start submitting instead of waiting for months looking for one. So if any of you have suggestions on finding one please chime in. Until then I am going to continue to write and take feedback from my readers and this board to improve the next. I hope you get used to me in here because I find your input valuable.

One in 20 sounds low. I think I've usually got a reply from about every fourth, maybe even more. I try to be selective about which VE to contact. If their profile is informative (and not full of grammar mistakes), I believe they are more likely to have honest ambitions to edit. I also try to give as much info as possible about the story and what I'm after in terms of editing.

There is also the editors forum: http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

 

[Beneaththesurface]

One in 20 sounds low. I think I've usually got a reply from about every fourth, maybe even more. I try to be selective about which VE to contact. If their profile is informative (and not full of grammar mistakes), I believe they are more likely to have honest ambitions to edit. I also try to give as much info as possible about the story and what I'm after in terms of editing.

There is also the editors forum: http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Thanks for the input. Maybe I just had back luck lol. I did find someone from the boards to look at my stuff.

 

[Beneaththesurface]

I know this will meet with some derision here, but I've been using the paid (definitely not the free) version of Grammarly...

Thanks for the reply. I tried the free version and it is helping. Haven't upgraded to premium yet.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I have used a beta reader on occasion, but my editing process generally consists of rereading it maybe six times (at least once in a different font, which oddly seems to help find errors, doubles, etc), then using a free on-line site to read it to me. Long, irritating, but it gets most errors.