AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[AwkwardMD]

It matters not how much time you spend writing this stuff. I'll somehow never get past the fact that you said Isolated Property is a "masterpiece of non-cons". And it contains lines like "His thick cock came to rest at her entrance". I'm going to go play with MY entrance.

Okay.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

Okay.

MD, I am still very much looking forward to your thoughts--I mean it. I'm ready.

 

[AwkwardMD]

MD, I am still very much looking forward to your thoughts--I mean it. I'm ready.

You're next. Probably before the end of the weekend. I already read it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

The Dream Girls Pt. 01, by HollyLoriAnnalee

Link

This story had me fooled. At first I really thought this was a wank story. I was ready to give a completely different review of this, but the more it all sat in my head the more I realized that you were pretty purposeful with the whole thing. It’s early yet, just the first chapter and less than 5k words, but I’m pretty sure you’re going somewhere with all of this and that’s impressive.

Just to be clear, wank stories are their own art form. They’re amazing, but they are a different beast. You approach them differently, and you review them differently. Lots of people love them, and I’ve certainly been known to enjoy a flick of the bean to something short and intense.

These two characters are fascinating. On the surface of it they’re both pretty shallow, and I thought that it was interesting how you explored their depth in ways that they themselves might not be aware of. Like, these are two women who lead vapid, hedonistic lives and probably don’t explore their own motives very often and yet they have motives.

You showed this, rather than telling us. That takes a lot of restraint, and it is rare to see that in first time authors.

This story is, in its way, a pretty dark indictment of the lengths that some people can and will go to with endless money and no one to tell them no (Epstein and Maxwell). I felt like Kim and Jessa are the kinds of people who are constantly escalating, and that anything short of permanent injury would be fodder for sexual enjoyment, and at the same time I didn’t feel like you were glorifying their behavior.

There’s a fine line between showing something awful and endorsing something awful. It can be a hard line to walk, and I know some of my older stories don’t do a perfect job of making that distinction. That was impressive.

***

I felt like their dialog was a little bit over the top, particularly in the moments after their streaming stopped and before the sex really started; by that, I mean, over the top in a way that leans toward silliness. The instagram feed and the sex scene featured some really strong dialog between them. You captured the feel of very intense, kink-heavy sex.

I think that the onomatopoeia you used, especially for the vomit, did not capture the action as viscerally as the narration alone could have. Again, it pushes the action toward something silly and almost comical when you were going for grotesque and visceral. Again, to be clear, grotesque and visceral is its own art form. There is an audience for that. The more work you put out like this, the more those readers will find you and love you. That being said, letter salad does less to convey that mental image than a vivid, harsh description of the colors, chunks, trajectory, and odor might.

Also, to clarify, I’m not talking about the way you used misspellings to show Jessa’s reduced enunciations. I felt like that was also a really strong use of ‘show don’t tell’. I’m just talking strictly about the vomit onomatopoeia.

***

I don’t usually pick on grammar, but I felt like there was one place you could use some guidance on. The following are basic guidelines, not hard rules. As you grow, you’ll find exceptions and alternate uses for these, and for sure there are different uses for these outside of fiction writing.

- An em dash should be used in dialog to show someone being interrupted, and should only be used if you then immediately cut to the interruptor/interrupting action.

- Ellipses should only be used in dialog to show a pause, or the trailing off of an unfinished thought.

- A hyphen only ever goes between words you are crushing together and linking in a way that alters their definition. It is a concatenating device.

Don’t use a hyphen to end a sentence. Don’t use em dashes to show pauses. Don’t use ellipses to end a sentence that is, otherwise, a complete and correct sentence.

An editor or beta reader might be a good idea, but for the most part I felt like your writing was pretty strong. It was definitely evocative, well-paced, and almost feverish. Personally, I think people should be pushed out of their comfort zones more often, and I hope your writing does that for whoever is lucky enough to find you.

Good luck and godspeed!

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

Awesome

Link

This story had me fooled. At first I really thought this was a wank story. I was ready to give a completely different review of this, but the more it all sat in my head the more I realized that you were pretty purposeful with the whole thing. It’s early yet, just the first chapter and less than 5k words, but I’m pretty sure you’re going somewhere with all of this and that’s impressive.

Just to be clear, wank stories are their own art form. They’re amazing, but they are a different beast. You approach them differently, and you review them differently. Lots of people love them, and I’ve certainly been known to enjoy a flick of the bean to something short and intense.

These two characters are fascinating. On the surface of it they’re both pretty shallow, and I thought that it was interesting how you explored their depth in ways that they themselves might not be aware of. Like, these are two women who lead vapid, hedonistic lives and probably don’t explore their own motives very often and yet they have motives.

You showed this, rather than telling us. That takes a lot of restraint, and it is rare to see that in first time authors.

This story is, in its way, a pretty dark indictment of the lengths that some people can and will go to with endless money and no one to tell them no (Epstein and Maxwell). I felt like Kim and Jessa are the kinds of people who are constantly escalating, and that anything short of permanent injury would be fodder for sexual enjoyment, and at the same time I didn’t feel like you were glorifying their behavior.

There’s a fine line between showing something awful and endorsing something awful. It can be a hard line to walk, and I know some of my older stories don’t do a perfect job of making that distinction. That was impressive.

***

I felt like their dialog was a little bit over the top, particularly in the moments after their streaming stopped and before the sex really started; by that, I mean, over the top in a way that leans toward silliness. The instagram feed and the sex scene featured some really strong dialog between them. You captured the feel of very intense, kink-heavy sex.

I think that the onomatopoeia you used, especially for the vomit, did not capture the action as viscerally as the narration alone could have. Again, it pushes the action toward something silly and almost comical when you were going for grotesque and visceral. Again, to be clear, grotesque and visceral is its own art form. There is an audience for that. The more work you put out like this, the more those readers will find you and love you. That being said, letter salad does less to convey that mental image than a vivid, harsh description of the colors, chunks, trajectory, and odor might.

Also, to clarify, I’m not talking about the way you used misspellings to show Jessa’s reduced enunciations. I felt like that was also a really strong use of ‘show don’t tell’. I’m just talking strictly about the vomit onomatopoeia.

***

I don’t usually pick on grammar, but I felt like there was one place you could use some guidance on. The following are basic guidelines, not hard rules. As you grow, you’ll find exceptions and alternate uses for these, and for sure there are different uses for these outside of fiction writing.

- An em dash should be used in dialog to show someone being interrupted, and should only be used if you then immediately cut to the interruptor/interrupting action.

- Ellipses should only be used in dialog to show a pause, or the trailing off of an unfinished thought.

- A hyphen only ever goes between words you are crushing together and linking in a way that alters their definition. It is a concatenating device.

Don’t use a hyphen to end a sentence. Don’t use em dashes to show pauses. Don’t use ellipses to end a sentence that is, otherwise, a complete and correct sentence.

An editor or beta reader might be a good idea, but for the most part I felt like your writing was pretty strong. It was definitely evocative, well-paced, and almost feverish. Personally, I think people should be pushed out of their comfort zones more often, and I hope your writing does that for whoever is lucky enough to find you.

Good luck and godspeed!

Thank you so much for putting the time in to help me out, it's clear to me that you really dove into my story, and that you thought about it to the point that you truly get what I'm doing here. It feels very cathartic to know some people understand this piece. I believe it will end up being much more than a wank story, but it's definitely (at first) disguised as a wank story.

You highlight the way I'm showing more than telling, and while I did not think of it that way, it was definitely a choice. In other pieces I'm working on, there is more telling than in this series, but with these girls, it just sort of happened--it felt like the right way to write it. With you bringing that out into the open, I can actually focus more on the distinction, and I thank you for that.

You're compliments feel great, I'm really touched, but it's definitely the criticism I was hungry for. I reworked the parts with letter salad just to get a look at how it came across, and you are correct--it's more effective if I put a tiny bit more detail into the descriptions and then eliminate those lines of onomatopoeia.

I thought about the dialogue that you said seem borderline silly, or just over the top, and messed with it for a while, seeing what else it might look like. I've decided to stick to my guns on that one, though, because what I'm really going for is that these girls seem to have a very limited working vocabulary. They're a parody of themselves, so yes, I think it should come across as over the top. I'm glad that you pointed it out, so I could make a deliberate decision about it.

As for the grammar, I am an em dash fan. I try to avoid using anything else, and I'm not sure why. I think that for me it is aesthetically pleasing, and that other symbols I could substitute don't have the impact that the em dash has. Is there a certain spot in this piece where you could give me an example of removing them in favor of something else? I would appreciate it.

One more question, and I've asked everyone this who commented on this piece: what do you think of the category? As this piece continues into the next few chapters, two of which are in the final polishing stages, it really moves all over the place, and I don't know WHAT category they should go in. Would love to hear your thoughts on that.

All in all, thank you from the bottom of my heart for this feedback. I found it very, very useful, and it helped me shape my own opinion about what I'm going for a little more. I'll see what I can do about that grammar, but I'm not sure yet.

You really are very good, and we're lucky to have you!

 

[SimonDoom]

One more question, and I've asked everyone this who commented on this piece: what do you think of the category? As this piece continues into the next few chapters, two of which are in the final polishing stages, it really moves all over the place, and I don't know WHAT category they should go in. Would love to hear your thoughts on that.

I'm curious what AwkwardMD thinks about this question, too, but I'll throw in something. I already sent you a comment on this question.

I'm unsure from your story where YOU as the author want this story to fall along the Nonconsent-BDSM continuum. The last line of the story indicates to me it's really a sadomasochistic story, with Jessa's full participation. That's not nonconsent. But maybe that's not where you want to go with the story. You have artistic license, but if I were you I'd think hard about this question concerning the characters' motives and the direction of the story. I'd probably be inclined to continue along the lines of nonconsent. It would be interesting if, in future chapters, at unpredictable times Kim simply asserted her will over Jessa, without Jessa's express consent. The result would be a continually edgy story that deals with the issue of whether and when a partner really is agreeing to be treated the way she's treated. As long as it's ambiguous, then Nonconsent, rather than BDSM, probably is the right category for publication. Many BDSM readers are very finicky about consent being crystal clear.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I thought about the dialogue that you said seem borderline silly, or just over the top, and messed with it for a while, seeing what else it might look like. I've decided to stick to my guns on that one, though, because what I'm really going for is that these girls seem to have a very limited working vocabulary. They're a parody of themselves, so yes, I think it should come across as over the top. I'm glad that you pointed it out, so I could make a deliberate decision about it.

An inescapable part of what I do involves "my opinion" on things. I try to always couch my feedback with "I think" and "I felt", because I'm trying to be transparent about the stuff that is more subjective, and this was definitely one of those places. If this is what you're going for, then absolutely stick to your guns. Clearly, you have some solid storytelling instincts.

As for the grammar, I am an em dash fan. I try to avoid using anything else, and I'm not sure why. I think that for me it is aesthetically pleasing, and that other symbols I could substitute don't have the impact that the em dash has. Is there a certain spot in this piece where you could give me an example of removing them in favor of something else? I would appreciate it.

"That—better be—fucking—important," Jessa said.

"That," Jessa said, panting, "better be... fucking... important."

One more question, and I've asked everyone this who commented on this piece: what do you think of the category? As this piece continues into the next few chapters, two of which are in the final polishing stages, it really moves all over the place, and I don't know WHAT category they should go in. Would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Oof. Tough. I have this problem often myself, because more often than not the stories I set out to write don't fit neatly into boxes. Usually, what I fall back on is "What kink gets the most attention/is the most important?"

I thought that the non-con role play, and their very specific sexual chemistry, was the strongest element in the story. The incestuous cousins aspect was much less important. Fetish was certainly a possibility, but I tend to think of Fetish being better suited to specific fetishes (feet, for example) rather than being a catch-all category for stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else.

 

[SimonDoom]

Oof. Tough. I have this problem often myself, because more often than not the stories I set out to write don't fit neatly into boxes. Usually, what I fall back on is "What kink gets the most attention/is the most important?"

I thought that the non-con role play, and their very specific sexual chemistry, was the strongest element in the story. The incestuous cousins aspect was much less important. Fetish was certainly a possibility, but I tend to think of Fetish being better suited to specific fetishes (feet, for example) rather than being a catch-all category for stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else.

I agree with that. Plus, if it's a choice between one category and another, and all other considerations leave the choice up in the air, you might as well choose the category with the most readers. Nonconsent gets more readers than fetish, bdsm, and erotic couplings, on average.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

The Dream Girls

Hey,

If anyone is interested, parts 2 and 3 of The Dream Girls are published. I found 2 or 3 typos already, but I'm pretty proud of them. The three parts are kind of one whole scene in that hotel suite. There will be more parts eventually.

Give it a read if you like!

 

[avery617]

Hey,

If anyone is interested, parts 2 and 3 of The Dream Girls are published. I found 2 or 3 typos already, but I'm pretty proud of them. The three parts are kind of one whole scene in that hotel suite. There will be more parts eventually.

Give it a read if you like!

Allow me to say I enjoyed your stories. I find you write with a kind of joie de vivre that makes reading your stories enjoyable.

Do not worry about those who criticize your punctuation. The last 50 pages of Ulysses contain NO punctuation, not one F-ing comma or period. And Joyce is supposed to be a genius. The Autobiography Of Alice B. Toklas contains about half the commas it should to make it easy to read and Stein is supposed to be a genius. Or a wanker, depending on whom you read.

Keep writing.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

Allow me to say I enjoyed your stories. I find you write with a kind of joie de vivre that makes reading your stories enjoyable.

Do not worry about those who criticize your punctuation. The last 50 pages of Ulysses contain NO punctuation, not one F-ing comma or period. And Joyce is supposed to be a genius. The Autobiography Of Alice B. Toklas contains about half the commas it should to make it easy to read and Stein is supposed to be a genius. Or a wanker, depending on whom you read.

Keep writing.

Thanks for the support, but no no sir. I take all criticism into consideration in a cold, outside-of-myself manner. AwkwardMD is a spectacular critic because she does not spare any punches. I loved her feedback, and I was completely thankful for her time and effort. I took all of her feedback, thought about each piece, then made up my mind whether those pieces were style choices that I kept in or just places where I could get better. You can always get better, and she helped me with that.

Again, thank you, and I'm glad you like my writing, but also thank you Awkward for being a resolute resource for us all.

Also, I have a massive, sprawling incest epic waiting to be approved. I think it's the greatest thing I'll ever write, and it is written in a style removed from the Dream Girls. I had an absolute party with myself writing it, and I think you'll really dig it. I'll let you know when it's published!

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

'The Christmas in July Luau' - my second story, and definitely my best so far

Dr. Awkward,

Another request, but first a mission statement.

Your criticism should be not only appreciated and utilized, but it should also be taken as a challenge. Hear me out.

The importance of criticism in the wide world of artistic expression comes not from its relevance to individuals who read or hear that criticism with the aim of selecting the expression that they so choose to patronize with their money and time, but from its relevance to creating a higher standard for that artistic expression to aspire to in the artists who create such expressions. With the internet age fully ablaze before us all, I feel that such criticism has been watered down and thinned and anonymous-ized into a diluted version of itself. It used to be a renowned career, and people used to abide by the knowledgable opinions and skilled compositions of the celebrities in that thankless career. I have read your criticism, and you are of the old kind. You offer a position of daring and challenge, setting some standard. You do that here, and I don’t know if it’s truly appreciated that you do it.

I dove headlong into a project about 10 days ago with the surface goal of creating a great, fun, ‘Summer Lovin’ 2020’ contest submission, with my intention of trying to win and then donating that money—I do not wish to make any actual money off of my writing, ever. My underlying ambition, however—the real driving force—was to create a piece of erotic fiction that you specifically—you, AwkwardMD—might think is a great thing, a great work, an opus. I sweated, I lost sleep writing until the wee hours, and I lauged myself through this thing with joy and twisted perversion in my heart. I went back through it with an uncounted amount of fine tooth combs, replaced a zillion words, thought about it around the clock, then finally submitted it to the site. It has been published.

So, I respectfully request—if you have the time at some point at all—that you please read my new story, ‘The Christmas in July Luau,’ and tell me exactly what you think. I hope you don’t take the praise for you in this post to mean that I want to kiss your ass. I want you to take the praise in this post as what it was: my mission statement. I enjoy your ruthless and terribly thoughtful criticism, and I bow down at your feet and lay this on the floor for you, waiting. Happy. Looking to improve in any way I can.

I gave this story everything I had, and I can’t believe it came out of my brain. I want to know what you think of it, and it’s as simple as that. Please, pull not a punch, give me your thoughts, then wave me away so as to hear the next suitor for your nobility.


With utmost salutations and admiration,

Holly Lori Annalee

 

[nylonpunkie]

Scary but true reviews

I just wanted to say I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Part of me would like to get your opinion of my work but an even bigger part is far too scared. It's so refreshing to see writers hammering their styles and skills into shape within these discussions.

 

[WoodmanStark]

I just wanted to say I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Part of me would like to get your opinion of my work but an even bigger part is far too scared. It's so refreshing to see writers hammering their styles and skills into shape within these discussions.

Do it. Submit yourself to her approval. It might hurt, but... no pain, no gain.

I've just finished my massive rewrite of "Jennifer" and hope to be putting it up within the week.

 

[avery617]

Do it. Submit yourself to her approval. It might hurt, but... no pain, no gain.

I've just finished my massive rewrite of "Jennifer" and hope to be putting it up within the week.

Seeking her opinion might indeed be useful. I have in my brief time here read some or all of her posts here and have found enjoyable stuff (e.g. when she put Spanish language dialog in a story and dealt ably with the reaction). Also the following which is great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgs-saf5Se8

But approval no. Taking a lead from another posting, she called Isolated Property a "masterpiece of non-cons". Read it and decide if indeed you want her approval.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Seeking her opinion might indeed be useful. I have in my brief time here read some or all of her posts here and have found enjoyable stuff (e.g. when she put Spanish language dialog in a story and dealt ably with the reaction). Also the following which is great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgs-saf5Se8

But approval no. Taking a lead from another posting, she called Isolated Property a "masterpiece of non-cons". Read it and decide if indeed you want her approval.

I agree with this. No one should be angling for my approval.

I will point out that you're misquoting me, and I think there's important nuance in the difference between your 'quote' and what I actually said, but the essence of this message is important and I hope everyone remembers that. I even tried to reinforce that in my next feedback, which I'll be posting—

 

[AwkwardMD]

Romping on Winter Break, by MaiaEmpire

Link

In other feedback I’ve given, I’ve talked about wank stories as this other kind of story from what I’m usually asked to read. I’ve tried to be clear that I think they’re capable of some really good stuff, and I think that this Romping on Spring Break series is a good example of that. The problem for me is going to come in that I’m just not as equipped to break them down as I am with stories that are trying to do something more literary.

I liked Beth and Brooke. I liked Rylan and Mark. I liked all the pairings you made with those four characters (especially the gay pairing). I have zero problem admitting I orgasmed while reading these. You pushed a lot of my buttons and you pushed them well. Unfortunately, those are all, like, really personal things and not necessarily the kind of things that I would want to hold up and be like “Now this is how you do anal!” because all that does is reinforce what works for me.

I’m nobody. I’m not worth going through the effort to impress.

Personal taste is the lion’s share of ‘what works’ in a sex scene once you get past the nuts and bolts construction of a scene. Did you get your characters in the room together? Do they have compatible parts? Are they into each other?

Everything else past that is a matter of taste. Extraordinarily subjective. That makes it very hard to give constructive, objective feedback. The only thing I thought, as I was reading through it, that I felt like I could give you anything useful on was that there was a lot of British spellings and word choices in a story specifically set in America. If this had been set in London, I’d have nothing.

I feel bad only saying that I really enjoyed it. The scores on your chapters are very good. I can’t speak for any of the other readers who voted, but I was compelled to rub one out pretty hard and that’s not nothing.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I feel bad only saying that I really enjoyed it. The scores on your chapters are very good. I can’t speak for any of the other readers who voted, but I was compelled to rub one out pretty hard and that’s not nothing.

I smiled at that, MD, the honesty to say, "Well THAT worked for me!" coz ain't that the point on a smut site? We can waffle on all we like about the world's next best erotic masterpiece, but for a writer to hear, "Daaamn, that was good," is the best .

 

[WoodmanStark]

Seeking her opinion might indeed be useful. I have in my brief time here read some or all of her posts here and have found enjoyable stuff (e.g. when she put Spanish language dialog in a story and dealt ably with the reaction). Also the following which is great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgs-saf5Se8

But approval no. Taking a lead from another posting, she called Isolated Property a "masterpiece of non-cons". Read it and decide if indeed you want her approval.

I didn't mean literal approval. More in a "Submitted for your approval" Rod Serling kind of way. Sorry for being unclear; that was on me.

 

[MaiaEmpire]

Link


I feel bad only saying that I really enjoyed it. The scores on your chapters are very good. I can’t speak for any of the other readers who voted, but I was compelled to rub one out pretty hard and that’s not nothing.

Ah, you got to mine! I just noticed it.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take "I really enjoyed it". I'm glad you liked the pairings, because what I enjoy about writing this series is that I have a dozen or so couplings I can mix and match with. I don't know what to tell you about British English. I probably absorb too much from the stuff I read, and the British English gets mixed in there. I guess it comes out when I write. Happens once in a fortnight, what can I say.

I didn't really think of it as a wank story, or that that was a thing that existed. My mantra is that sex should be fun, so that's what comes out when I write. If that's what a wank story is, then I guess that's what it is. I'm planning on expanding this series of stories though, once I finish writing and editing the entire week. So if anything, it's going to be many chapters of many couplings. At least that's the plan.

Thanks for the feedback! There are several more chapters available if you enjoyed them, and more on the way.

 

[WoodmanStark]

I didn't really think of it as a wank story, or that that was a thing that existed. My mantra is that sex should be fun, so that's what comes out when I write. If that's what a wank story is, then I guess that's what it is.

It's usually called a "stroke" story, or "stroker" around these parts, I think. A work where the point is to have lots of graphic sex, and story is a secondary consideration at best.
My own "A Visit from the Sex Goddess" is one such; it was conceived as a vehicle to write up whatever elaborate sexual fantasy I could dream up... there's absolutely no plot to speak of, just one short chapter of set up, followed by a chapter of exposition, and thereafter nothing but sex, sex, and more sex.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Yeah, I would say the line between them is sort of like this:

If the difference between one chapter and the next is which hole the sex happens in, that's a stroke story. If the characters are doing something or going somewhere that isn't explicitly about the sex, and sex simply happens along the way to this other thing/event/life experience, that's not a stroke story.

Both can be incredibly hot, so there's no judgment in creating one or the other, but I didn't feel like Romping on Christmas Break was trying to say anything, or go anywhere, or explore much beyond expanding its characters sexual horizons. At the start of it, Brooke considered herself straight. She got to watch two men have sex, and she liked it. She got to have sex with a woman, and she liked it. That's pretty much the scope of it.

I don't say that to sound reductive. It doesn't need to be anything more than that to make readers cum (case in point: me, twice). If your goal was to write something more literary, though, then maybe there's some room for discussion about what could have been added.

 

[AwkwardMD]

The Christmas in July Luau, by HoliLoriAnnalee

Link

The Christmas in July Luau is clearly not just a monumental labor of love, but also of intense, all-encompassing inspiration. It is ~36k words of feverish, stream-of-conscious sex talk from a sex-obsessed narrator. For the most part, that is a credit to the story as an experience the reader will absorb, but it does add some difficulty for me in giving feedback because there are some things that are handled unevenly. Some themes get really solid exploration in one area, and a dangerous kind of glossing over in other areas.

***

I’m gonna start with some things I felt were positive. I loved the framing device. I don’t often like framing devices (as evidenced by how frequently I have disparaged them in other feedback), but this one is pretty unique.

The story is presented as a diary entry, as the protagonist looks back on some choices and decisions and works her way toward the ultimate consequences of those. The diary entry style, combined with the use of first person, allows for a lot of raconteuring and asides. I know I saw some other writers in your own thread who were recommending paring this down significantly, but I felt like the asides and the rolling-with-the-punches style of narration afforded some moments of pure descriptive gold.

Keith is a sentient phallus of unknown origin with unthinkable plans. He is a cold piston in space, a brutal instrument of uniquely violent, emotionless propensity from an alien world in the far black stars. He is an interdimensional ominous maw of artificially networked humanistic flesh pieces programmed by some malicious superintelligence to take and get and hurt.

This part here I think I read through four or five times before I moved on. That is glorious descriptive writing. Seriously. Kudos.

I know, from having read some of Dream Girls, that this monologuing style of first person isn’t the only way you ever write, which makes the purposefulness of this very cool to see. In other words, if all of your stories were like this it would be less impressive here, but I know you can write in third person and you chose to write this story in this style, and in this voice. It’s excellent.

I also liked the way that the story approached the dynamic and fallout of parent/child incest. There were lines early in the story where the protagonist expressed remorse for the cost of initiating her relationship with her father, even if she ultimately got what she wanted and it was everything she ever dreamed it could be. It, in no way, sugar coats how dangerously influential parents can be on their children, and what that can mean for this particular brand of incest. I felt like this story ended on the strongest possible note. ‘Yeah, it’s fucked up. Yeah, I almost wish I hadn’t. Yeah, the sex blows my mind. I'd do it again.’

Given the extensive build-up over the story about who the protagonist is, and how honest she is about herself and her needs, that gives a lot of weight to the ending and her understanding of it. All of this understanding comes from her many, lengthy asides, and that pays off at the end.

***

Now, the bad.

https://m.mythcreants.com/blog/authorial-endorsement-101/

There is a thing in literary theory called Authorial Endorsement. The above article does a far more impressive and thorough job of describing the ins and outs, but the TL;DR version is that when things happen in stories and the author doesn’t present a consequence for that thing, the author has indirectly endorsed that thing. That is an extremely reductive explanation, as there are many ways to show consequence, but it gets us on the right page.

In TCIJL, the protagonist goes to work in an ice cream shop surrounded by young women, from the Ukraine, who are sex workers. They’re well paid, nobody mistreats them, they only seem to have bad memories of their time in the Ukraine or their families. It’s not explained how they got here in the US, or how they were recruited. Nothing is mentioned of what happens to them after they reach the phase out age of 21. All in all, they seem happier to be here than there and their lives are grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat!.

That is a heck of a glamour to cast the appalling practice of human sex trafficking. By not peeling back the layers, and allowing those girls to be humans who have likely been through some shit, TCIJL unintentionally endorses an ugly practice.

On top of that is the age disparity between the girls and the guys. All of the men are much older. Much, much older. Now, in the context of the story, this choice was done to prime the reader for her seeing her father as a viable sexual candidate, but there’s a reason that most people would view two people this far apart in age as having a predatory relationship; it is. A girl of 18-21 is simply not capable of understanding herself in the same way that a man of 40-60 is capable of understanding himself (and, of course, the same is true if you reverse the gender). The story is pretty clear, at a few different points, that none of the guys are trying to be creepy old men. They’re all well-behaved within the bounds of whatever contract/arrangement they have with D&V. This is whitewashing, and it’s all the more apparent because later in the story the protagonist is super aware of the fact that her father has power over her.

On top of that, they’re paying for it. The combination of money, age, and the questionable citizenship/enthusiasm of the Ukranian girls should have created an environment of ridiculous abuse. Yes, allegedly, D&V do some screening that filters out the problem customers…

...but then there’s Keith.

This guy should have set off so many red flags from so many people along the way. Many/some (it’s unclear how many) of the other girls won’t see this guy. The protagonist compares him to Patrick Bateman. Say what you will about the thrill of that kind of harsh fantasy, the protagonist knows that this man could kill her. She is absolutely in danger around him and she knows it, and in the same breath she admits that she’s seen him more times than she can count. On the one hand, you might be saying “Sure, but she’s young! She doesn’t know how dangerous he is!”, but that links back around to the age disparity.

Keith didn’t need to be in this story. None of these men did. This story could have been about about a sex ring where the girls were local and pretty, and the guys are all the sons of wealthy social elite. You could have the exact same series of events, where the protagonist is frustrated because the oldest guy in the group is 30 and even if he gets into the roleplay she just can’t see someone that young believably acting as her father.

My point is that these things could have been avoided. This wasn’t the only way to write this story and achieve the power of the ending that you had. In doing so this way, you’ve handwaved past what could have been (and probably should have been) some very serious consequences. In the same way that the protagonist looks back on some hurried choices of her youth and thought “wow I could have gotten hurt”, I think this story is very similar. I think that you, the author, had the idea and wrote it super fast without realizing what the impacts around the protagonist should have been.

I preach all the time about being purposeful. The downside of that is that, for me personally, a lot of my stories take 1-3 months to write while I wrangle with details and themes, and work everything out. The upside is that at the end of it, I made the thing I wanted to make, and I didn’t make anything I hadn’t intended on. For better or worse, I don’t endorse anything that I didn’t think long and hard on.

***

The protagonist of TCIJL described herself in a couple of places as obsessive, but I only found that to be true in two place; one, in her pursuit of a job with D&V, and two, in her pursuit of sex with her father. For the rest of the story, the protagonist was an otherwise well-adjusted teen with no hint of obsessive, fixated behavior. I didn’t notice it as I was reading it, but the more I’ve reflected on TCIJL the more I’ve felt like the protagonist was very selectively obsessive where it was convenient for the plot, and that’s not ideal.

Give her a color she always wears. Give her a morning routine she can’t break. Give her foods she has to eat every day, or some foods she never eats. Give her a favorite band, whose lyrics permeate every scene. Something more to justify using her obsession as the driving force of the plot.

***

The last thing I want to touch on was the protagonist’s dirty talk. Now, earlier I gave you credit with regards to the perspective, because you wrote this story in such a different style from Dream Girls. That was good, but the couple instances of dirty talk that you gave the protagonist read exactly like Kim and Jessa in Dream Girls, and it’s more vulgar than it is dirty. It seems like it goes for shock value more than anything else. Shock value certainly has its place, but there was room in this story for some seriously depraved-yet-thoughtful dirty talk, and I didn’t find it. I wanted more from a character who thought so highly of her own abilities in that particular aspect.

***

I orgasmed twice. One time while driving. The Christmas in July is so gripping and intense that it was very easy to get caught up in the flow of it. I think there was room for some improvement in the way you set up the situations the protagonist found herself in, and that there is room for you to grow in your planning stages of creating your art, but you really nailed the executing stage of creating this piece.

Thanks for putting a wet stain in my panties.

 

[SimonDoom]

Link



https://m.mythcreants.com/blog/authorial-endorsement-101/

There is a thing in literary theory called Authorial Endorsement. The above article does a far more impressive and thorough job of describing the ins and outs, but the TL;DR version is that when things happen in stories and the author doesn’t present a consequence for that thing, the author has indirectly endorsed that thing. That is an extremely reductive explanation, as there are many ways to show consequence, but it gets us on the right page.

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I haven't seen you explicitly bring up this theory in your critiques before, and I'm curious about it. I read the article you linked to. It's a subject that might better be addressed in a whole separate thread, so I won't interject my thoughts, but I have some questions for you about the theory generally and how it applies to this story in particular:

1. Is the author entitled to say, "I don't care whether some readers interpret it as endorsing something bad. I don't and that's what matters"?

2. Are there circumstances or types of stories in which the author is entitled to take the position that, although the story describes socially pernicious behavior in an unrealistic way, it's OK for the story to do so? If not, why not? If so, what does the author have to do in the story to insulate it from the criticism of authorial endorsement? What if Holly took the position she didn't want to have to deal with a more realistic depiction of the probable background of the Ukrainian prostitutes because it would detract from things she wanted to accomplish in the story, or it would make the story too long, or it would make the story less fun? Would she be able to do that? How, if so?

 

[AwkwardMD]

1 is easy. Authorial intent is completely irrelevant. What an author tried to do is insignificant compared to what they did.

2 I have to consider more carefully, and drink more coffee, to be able to process.