Why you can't have nice things.

[FlowersForFun]

Admitting that you have no concept of what lying means is a good first step. Congrats!

I'm not the one who needs to admit they have no concept of what lying means.

 

[bestone4ever]

I'm not the one who needs to admit they have no concept of what lying means.

https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=92406416&postcount=269

 

[Emerson40]

There's actually data on there on unreported crimes, including the ethnicity of the unapprehended criminals? If so, please just present it - why the fuck make me read through it all if you've already found it?

And there's also data demonstrating that all the research that demonstrates my second point is bollocks? Again, please show me what you've found.

He can’t.

It only exists in his brain.

It’s there, with all the shit.

 

[girlsmiley]

Hi, Smiley!

Looks like you got a troll on your ass! I know, it's not the first time and it probably won't be the last. It happens when people express indignation over injustices happening in the world online and you get some smug schmuck who thinks it's his (yes, it's almost always a cis [white] male) duty to teach you a lesson for bringing it up and having the nerve to stand up for something. This is The Way Of Internet Community Forums. The trolls who do these things always exist in every community. As long as damaged anti-social human beings exist on this planet, you cannot and will not be able to escape this inevitability.

Welp, that being said, let's strip this bitch down to the choners. The troll here tried to give you some facts about the murdered with the objective of mitigating your indignation. Now, here's what you tell your little girl:

1) George Floyd wasn't an angel in his lifetime and yes, committed crimes.

2) Despite George Floyd not being an angel in his lifetime and yes, committing crimes, he didn't deserve an extrajudicial death at the hands of the state.

dassit.

If the troll tries to double down on some egregious bullshit regarding some belief that everybody gets murked by the state equally, then hit him with this:

3) UConn student Peter Manfredonia (allegedly) killed two people, led authorities on a manhunt for four days and ended up being apprehended instead of being a sponge for lead bullets or steel knees to the throat despite being an active threat to all communities within range during those four days.

https://i0.wp.com/www.yc.news/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/THE-END2.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/uconn-student-manhunt-killing-home-invasion-family-plea/index.html

there is not a Black or Brown or person alive in America who would be able to get away with the same thing unscathed by law enforcement, not when the church-massacre prone Dylan Roofs (Rooves?) of this country get taken to Burger Kings on their way to the hoosegow because they're peckish, but let's not get sidetracked. Points 1 and 2 are all the legitimacy you need to tell her.

also, there was in Lit GB times of yore a racist right-wing schmuck here by the name of Koalabear who used to highlight every day by mentioning how many people died in Chicago due to "urban" deaths or whatever. That person is no longer among the living due to a blood disorder that nobody gave a fuck about, but I mention him in order to let you know that there are still those here who adopt the same method of rhetoric in order to disseminate their soft-serve anti-Blackness and racism. You know, the ol' they're no angels anyway so what brand of bullshit.

aaaaanyway. Let's not end this night (or day where you are) on a downer.

Keep showing your daughter truth and light. Be good and well in these strange days.

Hi my friend!

Ugh. The trolls! They've all tried with me. You'd think after 10 years they'd have figured out I can't be trolled, but no.

They're in denial and out of touch. They don't want to acknowledge the severity of the situation at hand. They don't want to admit their country is fucked, that their system is fucked, the cops are fucked and what happened to George Floyd was fucked. They don't want to admit it. And there's nothing more pathetic than watching a bunch of old guys in denial.

Completely OUT OF Touch. Fuck them.

But the reality is the whole world is watching. We all saw what we saw. We are behind you guys and we want a better America, too. We know what needs to be done.

 

[FlowersForFun]

When the left gets upset about cops of color gunning down and unarmed white guy, or even a black cop gunning down a black guy, I might be convinced they aren't racist piles of shit.

Till then? Just more whining from the racist left.

 

[phrodeau]

When the left gets upset about cops of color gunning down and unarmed white guy, or even a black cop gunning down a black guy, I might be convinced they aren't racist piles of shit.

Till then? Just more whining from the racist left.

Maybe you don’t remember Mohamed Noor.

 

[MartinHeidegger]

We've got multiple reports about (far-left) anarchists from outside the Minneapolis area being responsible for much of the property damage.

Not that OP particularly cares about facts on the ground.

 

[bellisarius]

We've got multiple reports about (far-left) anarchists from outside the Minneapolis area being responsible for much of the property damage.

Not that OP particularly cares about facts on the ground.

Of course, blame it on someone else. Play that victim card for all it's worth. The community played no role in the looting's, etc. at all.

 

[MartinHeidegger]

Of course, blame it on someone else. Play that victim card for all it's worth. The community played no role in the looting's, etc. at all.

As I said, disregard for facts on the ground.

 

[SugarDaddy1]

Records show arrests so far are mostly in-state

MINNEAPOLIS — In casting blame on those responsible for the worst damage from the riots, local and state leaders attributed it to people not from Minnesota.

But publicly available data does not support those claims, KARE 11 Investigates has found.

KARE 11 found that of 36 cases, about 86 percent of those arrested listed Minnesota as their address.

The data, taken from the Hennepin County Jail’s roster, shows that nearly all of the people arrested in likely connection to the riots live in Minneapolis or the metro area. The five cases from outside Minnesota were of people listed as living in Missouri, Florida, Arkansas, Michigan and Illinois.

Source

 

[FlowersForFun]

Maybe you don’t remember Mohamed Noor.

I don't remember rioting......how many residential and commercial buildings were burned down when he shot that woman???

 

[MartinHeidegger]

Source

I suppose Barr is completely off base, too.

https://www.voanews.com/usa/barr-says-outside-agitators-taking-over-protests

Barr Says Outside Agitators Taking Over Protests

 

[phrodeau]

I don't remember rioting......how many residential and commercial buildings were burned down when he shot that woman???

I wouldn’t trust your memory for shit.

 

[KimGordon67]

Uhhh, and just how would one go about compiling data on unreported crimes? A national survey maybe? By definition an unreported crime never officially took place.

Good grief - this my ACTUAL point. Your original post said (I've bolded the relevant bits):

"1. As a percentage of criminal activity they are under represented. In the interest of "fairness" more blacks should be shot by police. But I don't think you see that as a solution any more than I do. Fact; blacks represent 13% of the population but they commit over 50% of ALL felonies save one category, rape. What that means is that over 50% of ALL police interactions with a criminal are going to involve a black citizen. (source FBI UCR)"​

What I was entirely clearly saying is that it's impossible to know this - and you've literally just agreed with me. The stats are based on the crimes that are reported and prosecuted, and for the reasons I outlined some posts back, that process, from go to whoa, is more likely to favour white people than black people. So we actually can't know whether black people actually COMMIT 50% of all felonies - all we know is that they're 50% of the people who end up in jail for felonies. COMMITTING and BEING JAILED for a felony are NOT the same thing.

This is unlikely to explain the entirety of the over-representation of black people in felony stats - there's other factors like poverty, and generational factors that y'all seem to think should disappear in a poof of smoke because the civil rights movement or something. But you are resting your argument on stats that do not do what you are saying they do.

 

[HisArpy]

Source

I lover it when reporters jack their articles to come up with statements that don't fit the facts.

FACT: 86% of those arrested listed Minneapolis as their residence.

DEDUCED FACT: 14% of those arrested don't have Minneapolis as their residence.

I wonder if those 14% are the ones provoking the violence?

 

[KimGordon67]

Isn't it up to YOU to dig for the information yourself? You know, do your own homework?

The world isn't going to spoon feed you anything because we're not your mom and you're not a baby.

No - if someone is going to make an argument about something, it's actually up to them to present the evidence. I know for a fact that stats held by bodies like the FBI are based on reported/prosecuted crime, not 'all' crime. If someone wants to make some claim for these stats representing ALL crime, they need to demonstrate that.

(And if they have those data to hand, expecting someone else to then go and find them independently is just stupid. Why should two people have to spend their time digging through these stats? If B has the evidence that he's talking about, then he just share it. You know, like a decent human being.)

 

[HisArpy]

Good grief - this my ACTUAL point. Your original post said (I've bolded the relevant bits):

"1. As a percentage of criminal activity they are under represented. In the interest of "fairness" more blacks should be shot by police. But I don't think you see that as a solution any more than I do. Fact; blacks represent 13% of the population but they commit over 50% of ALL felonies save one category, rape. What that means is that over 50% of ALL police interactions with a criminal are going to involve a black citizen. (source FBI UCR)"​

What I was entirely clearly saying is that it's impossible to know this - and you've literally just agreed with me. The stats are based on the crimes that are reported and prosecuted, and for the reasons I outlined some posts back, that process, from go to whoa, is more likely to favour white people than black people. So we actually can't know whether black people actually COMMIT 50% of all felonies - all we know is that they're 50% of the people who end up in jail for felonies. COMMITTING and BEING JAILED for a felony are NOT the same thing.

This is unlikely to explain the entirety of the over-representation of black people in felony stats - there's other factors like poverty, and generational factors that y'all seem to think should disappear in a poof of smoke because the civil rights movement or something. But you are resting your argument on stats that do not do what you are saying they do.

This is a mess.

What you're saying is that Blacks represent 50% of the reported crimes but that percentage may go down if somehow we included UNreported crimes.

Because somehow in your head you believe that Whitey commits more UNreported crimes than Blacks do.

 

[hogjack]

Minneapolis is completely run by the Democrat Farmer Labor (DFL) Party.

It's those fucking farmers not taking care of their shit.

 

[KimGordon67]

This is a mess.

What you're saying is that Blacks represent 50% of the reported crimes but that percentage may go down if somehow we included UNreported crimes.

Because somehow in your head you believe that Whitey commits more UNreported crimes than Blacks do.

Almost, but not exactly. I'm saying that black people are more likely to have negative outcomes at every step along the way. I'm actually going to use local examples, because it's a context I'm more familiar with, but this article (which I only have time to skim, but will come back to properly later) suggests that the situation is much the same in the US.

So in New Zealand:

• 'suspicious activity' is more likely to be reported to the police if the people involved are Māori/Pacific than if they are Pākehā;
• the police are more likely to be patrolling in areas with high Māori/Pacific populations;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to be arrested for the same crime than Pākehā people;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to end up in court once arrested;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to found guilty once arrested;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to have prison sentences.

For everything other than the last step, this means the stats suggest that Māori/Pacific people commit more crime than Pākehā, but really we can't know if this is actually the case or not. But it is clear that once they've entered the criminal justice process, there is a much higher likelihood of them having negative outcomes, for the same crimes.
And then, of course, once you have a record, and especially once you've been inside, the odds are even more stacked against you. (And of course, in the US, you have the whole 'felon' thing that we don't have here, so often you can't even vote.)

I'm genuinely surprised you don't know this - I honestly thought it was common knowledge. (And, just to reiterate, the article I've linked to demonstrates that this is patently also the case in the US, and provides really comprehensive evidence. I had pretty much stopped linking to evidence in debates on the GB, because no one ever bothers looking at the evidence, but I've linked this one largely because it's so comprehensive, and I'll want to come back to it later.)

 

[Emerson40]

Good grief - this my ACTUAL point. Your original post said (I've bolded the relevant bits):

"1. As a percentage of criminal activity they are under represented. In the interest of "fairness" more blacks should be shot by police. But I don't think you see that as a solution any more than I do. Fact; blacks represent 13% of the population but they commit over 50% of ALL felonies save one category, rape. What that means is that over 50% of ALL police interactions with a criminal are going to involve a black citizen. (source FBI UCR)"​

What I was entirely clearly saying is that it's impossible to know this - and you've literally just agreed with me. The stats are based on the crimes that are reported and prosecuted, and for the reasons I outlined some posts back, that process, from go to whoa, is more likely to favour white people than black people. So we actually can't know whether black people actually COMMIT 50% of all felonies - all we know is that they're 50% of the people who end up in jail for felonies. COMMITTING and BEING JAILED for a felony are NOT the same thing.

This is unlikely to explain the entirety of the over-representation of black people in felony stats - there's other factors like poverty, and generational factors that y'all seem to think should disappear in a poof of smoke because the civil rights movement or something. But you are resting your argument on stats that do not do what you are saying they do.

Another issue he is conveniently skirting with not providing any links, is when looking at the FBI UCR, where he claims to be basing his "facts" from, Blacks do not commit 50% of ALL felonies. Not even close.

His claim is completely trumped-up (pun entirely intended), and his evasiveness with showing his work for his spurious claims only highlights his racism and bigotry, qualities which have more to do with why America can't have nice things, than protestors.

 

[Emerson40]

This is a mess.

What you're saying is that Blacks represent 50% of the reported crimes but that percentage may go down if somehow we included UNreported crimes.

Because somehow in your head you believe that Whitey commits more UNreported crimes than Blacks do.

According the the FBI UCR, 'Whitey' certainly commits more of "ALL felonies" compared to Blacks, contrary to what Ishmael is trying to fallaciously state as 'Fact'.

 

[HisArpy]

According the the FBI UCR, 'Whitey' certainly commits more of "ALL felonies" compared to Blacks, contrary to what Ishmael is trying to fallaciously state as 'Fact'.

Wait, you say that when the stats are complied and show that Blacks commit 50% of the crimes it's wrong because Blacks are a smaller percentage of the population than whites.

Yet, when you argue that Whites commit more crimes than Blacks, you use gross numbers rather than percentage of population.

One or the other dudly, you can't have it both ways.

 

[girlsmiley]

Maybe you don’t remember Mohamed Noor.

I wouldn't bother.

That's what the trolls do.

They say, "This doesn't happen when a white person got shot"

So you say, "You're wrong because it happened here (example).

They say," Oh but but but but"




They'll change the subject every single time to try and get you to argue about something else.

It's a tactic as old as the hills. I learned about it years ago. We saw the opponents of SSM try and pull that crap here in Australia. It's what they do.

George Floyd was murdered. Black people are being murdered because they're black.

 

[bellisarius]

Almost, but not exactly. I'm saying that black people are more likely to have negative outcomes at every step along the way. I'm actually going to use local examples, because it's a context I'm more familiar with, but this article (which I only have time to skim, but will come back to properly later) suggests that the situation is much the same in the US.

So in New Zealand:

• 'suspicious activity' is more likely to be reported to the police if the people involved are Māori/Pacific than if they are Pākehā;
• the police are more likely to be patrolling in areas with high Māori/Pacific populations;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to be arrested for the same crime than Pākehā people;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to end up in court once arrested;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to found guilty once arrested;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to have prison sentences.

For everything other than the last step, this means the stats suggest that Māori/Pacific people commit more crime than Pākehā, but really we can't know if this is actually the case or not. But it is clear that once they've entered the criminal justice process, there is a much higher likelihood of them having negative outcomes, for the same crimes.
And then, of course, once you have a record, and especially once you've been inside, the odds are even more stacked against you. (And of course, in the US, you have the whole 'felon' thing that we don't have here, so often you can't even vote.)

I'm genuinely surprised you don't know this - I honestly thought it was common knowledge. (And, just to reiterate, the article I've linked to demonstrates that this is patently also the case in the US, and provides really comprehensive evidence. I had pretty much stopped linking to evidence in debates on the GB, because no one ever bothers looking at the evidence, but I've linked this one largely because it's so comprehensive, and I'll want to come back to it later.)

The UCR reports are not court outcome based reports. Period. Conviction rates, penalties levied, etc. are not part of the data base. They aren't even based on arrests made. Strictly crimes reported to the authorities. Where the race of the perpetrator is unknown, that too is stated in the reports.

 

[HisArpy]

Almost, but not exactly. I'm saying that black people are more likely to have negative outcomes at every step along the way. I'm actually going to use local examples, because it's a context I'm more familiar with, but this article (which I only have time to skim, but will come back to properly later) suggests that the situation is much the same in the US.

So in New Zealand:

• 'suspicious activity' is more likely to be reported to the police if the people involved are Māori/Pacific than if they are Pākehā;
• the police are more likely to be patrolling in areas with high Māori/Pacific populations;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to be arrested for the same crime than Pākehā people;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to end up in court once arrested;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to found guilty once arrested;
• Māori/Pacific people are more likely to have prison sentences.

For everything other than the last step, this means the stats suggest that Māori/Pacific people commit more crime than Pākehā, but really we can't know if this is actually the case or not. But it is clear that once they've entered the criminal justice process, there is a much higher likelihood of them having negative outcomes, for the same crimes.
And then, of course, once you have a record, and especially once you've been inside, the odds are even more stacked against you. (And of course, in the US, you have the whole 'felon' thing that we don't have here, so often you can't even vote.)

I'm genuinely surprised you don't know this - I honestly thought it was common knowledge. (And, just to reiterate, the article I've linked to demonstrates that this is patently also the case in the US, and provides really comprehensive evidence. I had pretty much stopped linking to evidence in debates on the GB, because no one ever bothers looking at the evidence, but I've linked this one largely because it's so comprehensive, and I'll want to come back to it later.)

What you're saying is that Maori's are SCRUTINIZED more heavily than other races.

That doesn't mean other races are committing crimes that go unnoticed/unpunished. It means that if you look hard enough and long enough, you'll find criminal behavior of one type or another.

The question isn't that non-whites are scrutinized more heavily than whites, it's whether non-whites "should be" scrutinized that heavily. The answer to that is based on crime stats. The police patrol where crime occurs. If that's Maori neighborhoods, then...

It's not always about race.