What do you call an aircraft carrier captain concerned for the safety of his crew?

[sygn]

All of the 5,000 crew has been tested as of Saturday US time.

44 % have tested positive 1400+ have been taken on shore.

A lot more folks than the Captain are going to be on the hook for this colossal mess. Navy Secretary for one will have to answer why did he allow such a major component of US defence capability to be compromised?

Any more posters who want to offer another helping of stiff necked self-righteousness?

^^
This.

Both sides are focusing Just on Crozier.

 

[sygn]

And in response to your comments re my bullying.

Yes, I Am a bully.
But I also decided that half of the men on Lit, Bot and Q&alts included
deserve none of my respect
after seeing their callous attitudes towards non-consensual pictures sharing and the creepy "younger looking nubiles" stuff.

 

[Rightguide]

All of the 5,000 crew has been tested as of Saturday US time.

44 % have tested positive 1400+ have been taken on shore.

A lot more folks than the Captain are going to be on the hook for this colossal mess. Navy Secretary for one will have to answer why did he allow such a major component of US defence capability to be compromised?

Any more posters who want to offer another helping of stiff necked self-righteousness?

Get over it. The SecNav has spoken with the apparent approval of the CinC. It's over. The President is the last word.

 

[Conager]

This is the most concise, while thorough take in this I have read:

https://www.redstate.com/darth641/2020/04/04/opinion-navy-captain-properly-relieved/

As pointed out by others here previously, it is never OK to announce to the world that your ship is out of commission. Especially if you command an aircraft carrier.

 

[Tigersman]

That will not happen.
The ship cannot go out of line.
Our leadership has stretched us too thin,
and Congress has failed to provide military funding.

It is full of people who dislike and distrust the "military-industrial complex."

If Chief Bone Spurs or Motly doesn't order the entire crew to be removed and quarantined plus call in a hazmat team then with the way the virus speeds, the readiness of this ship will be totally compromised.

 

[Tigersman]

I feel for him, he had the welfare of his men at heart, but...

Dear Russia, China, Iraq, etc.

My expensive, heavily armed ship is a sitting duck. Have at us!

Regards,

Panic Captain

You have the wrong person sending this message. The sender should have been Chief Bone Spurs with love.

 

[Conager]

If Chief Bone Spurs or Motly doesn't order the entire crew to be removed and quarantined plus call in a hazmat team then with the way the virus speeds, the readiness of this ship will be totally compromised.

"With the way the virus spreads?"

How is that?

Far as I know, we don't have any idea how efficiently it spreads. We are only recently finding that surfaces are less like to spread it than airborne particles.

"evacuating the entire crew" (which has already been done to the extent it can be 400 essential personnel are left) would "totally compromise" the "readiness of the ship" just the same.

 

[dolf]

You have the wrong person sending this message. The sender should have been Chief Bone Spurs with love.

Trump is a reality tv host that went into politics.
The captain is a highly trained, experienced officer.

One of these men i would expect to know better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the military was doing the best job it could in the handling of the outbreak. I'm not saying that the guy hadn't tried other routes, or that the leadership is competent. I'm just saying that there are some rules that are in place for a very good reason, especially when your country has been pulling faces at less stable world leaders and poking various other nations with sticks. The potential results are even worse than corona.

 

[sygn]

.

"With the way the virus spreads?"
How is that?

Far as I know, we don't have any idea how efficiently it spreads.
We are only recently finding that surfaces are less like to spread it than airborne particles.

Oy!.

 

[icanhelp1]

^^
This.

Both sides are focusing Just on Crozier.

HIS STATEMENT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT!

 

[Botanical11B]

And in response to your comments re my bullying.

Yes, I Am a bully.
But I also decided that half of the men on Lit, Bot and Q&alts included
deserve none of my respect
after seeing their callous attitudes towards non-consensual pictures sharing and the creepy "younger looking nubiles" stuff.

You mean the pictures you FELT are non-con.

You never managed to prove that a single one of them was and then demonstrated through your theory craft that you have absolutely ZERO concept of how consent or property ownership work. Because FEELINGS.

LOL you're not a bully, you're a child who doesn't know what it's talking about.

 

[Yerkiddin]

Yes, because he must not be a Republican.

Going by our elected officials, if he'd been a typical republican, he would have followed orders, no matter the losses.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Sygn

How many times do you have to be told that this has nothing to do with the Army
and everything to do with the Navy?

 

[SpeareChucker]

Going by our elected officials, if he'd been a typical republican, he would have followed orders, no matter the losses.

Enumerate the orders he was not following please.

 

[SpeareChucker]

If Chief Bone Spurs or Motly doesn't order the entire crew to be removed and quarantined plus call in a hazmat team then with the way the virus speeds, the readiness of this ship will be totally compromised.

The President is not the military micromanager in chief.

Hitler tried that...

 

[icanhelp1]

Best answer.
Yes, I'm ignorant about the Army and said stupid things, but I don't like being treated like a fool.

I want Right leaning folks to address equally BOTH issues
--Crozier's leak endangered the Army
--his superiors might have acted incompetently
instead of deflecting++ on the latter.

Both sides on the GB use similar partisan tactics.

In this political environment politics will always rise it's ugly head, it will most certainly target Trump and his civilian (military) chiefs as incompetent and congress will try to run the navy agenda instead of letting the JAG do it's job. If the left's approach was on an even keel with the current administration I'd be OK with congressional involvement, unfortunately I believe partisan involvement would aim their guns at the Trump admin rather than drilling for the Truth.

It's not uncommon for a commander to garner support by his soldiers when their commander has been relieved, good commanders build a bond based on trust with soldiers and in return they will perform for him/her. Soldiers within his command are obligated to adhere to the same doctrine as the commander, and that is YOU DO NOT JUMP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND. A soldier is not obligated to follow an unlawful order also, by the same token, if a soldier has what he believe's is a legitimate bitch he's duty bound to take it up with his next level supervisor or direct his issue with the IG. I'm sure some issues are classified and won't come out for years.

More to come, any posters hanging this on Trump don't understand military doctrine or the importance of the chain of command.

The Navy is being discussed not the Army but both operate under the guidance provided by UCMJ ( UNIFORMED CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE ) and represented by the Judge Advocate general corps.

 

[Botanical11B]

Best answer.
Yes, I'm ignorant about the Army and said stupid things, but I don't like being treated like a fool.

Well if you don't like being treated like a fool maybe you should learn the topic matter....the Army has nothing to do with what's being discussed here.

I want Right leaning folks to address equally BOTH issues
--Crozier's leak endangered the Army
--his superiors might have acted incompetently
instead of deflecting++ on the latter.

Both sides on the GB use similar partisan tactics.

Want in one hand shit in the other, see which one fills up first.

The right isn't deflecting, they just tend to understand the military better, shit rolls downhill in the military, not the other way around. CO's don't get punished when Joe fucks up.

The only person who seems to have acted incompetently here is Crozier.

 

[icanhelp1]

Trump is a reality tv host that went into politics.
The captain is a highly trained, experienced officer.

One of these men i would expect to know better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the military was doing the best job it could in the handling of the outbreak. I'm not saying that the guy hadn't tried other routes, or that the leadership is competent. I'm just saying that there are some rules that are in place for a very good reason, especially when your country has been pulling faces at less stable world leaders and poking various other nations with sticks. The potential results are even worse than corona.

And Reagan was an actor, the president doesn't manage day to day military ops the dep chiefs do and work hand in hand with their chiefs of staff. The president sets policy the military formulates options and backs it up.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Get over it. The SecNav has spoken with the apparent approval of the CinC. It's over. The President is the last word.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[Botanical11B]

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Nothing, what he posted is by all accounts totally accurate.

 

[sygn]

In this political environment politics will always rise it's ugly head, it will most certainly target Trump and his civilian (military) chiefs as incompetent and congress will try to run the navy agenda instead of letting the JAG do it's job. If the left's approach was on an even keel with the current administration I'd be OK with congressional involvement, unfortunately I believe partisan involvement would aim their guns at the Trump admin rather than drilling for the Truth.

It's not uncommon for a commander to garner support by his soldiers when their commander has been relieved, good commanders build a bond based on trust with soldiers and in return they will perform for him/her. Soldiers within his command are obligated to adhere to the same doctrine as the commander, and that is YOU DO NOT JUMP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND. A soldier is not obligated to follow an unlawful order also, by the same token, if a soldier has what he believe's is a legitimate bitch he's duty bound to take it up with his next level supervisor or direct his issue with the IG. I'm sure some issues are classified and won't come out for years.

More to come, any posters hanging this on Trump don't understand military doctrine or the importance of the chain of command.

I still remain critical of GB conservatives' deflection tactics, whenever someone tried to discuss the other issue: the probable incompetence of those higher up.
This is a mere social board, a debate board, it has no relevance to RL, ffs!
Because:
Unless Crozier lied in his letter, there's a solid basis to assume the outbreak was managed incompetently. Just like that cultural visit to Vietnam on march the 4th, during which soldiers were ordered to embrace Vietnamese kids and staff, for the camera.

BUT: They Are actually right, Brett Crozier shouldn't have gone the way he did about it, he deserved to be demoted and investigated.

I now keep reading how incredibly tense things have been in the South Sea, with even more increased military presence from China over the kast few days.

 

[SpeareChucker]

You are still convinced that as elite and undemocratic as the military is,
the they tend to promote/reward incompetence?

General Gomer Pyle?

You need to seriously question the validity of that premise.

 

[sygn]

His letter, if you read it, points out clearly to an incompetent management of the outbreak. Unless he lied.

I'm not condoning him any longer for the way he went about it. He deserved punishment. But these two are separate issues.

 

[icanhelp1]

His letter, if you read it, points out clearly to an incompetent management of the outbreak. Unless he lied.

I'm not condoning him any longer for the way he went about it. He deserved punishment. But these two are separate issues.

One more time, this not about the covid virus; it's about discipline on board a ship 4000 miles out to sea, not following the chain of command and disregarding comsec protocol, possibly putting the force in harm's way. Fuck his letter, there was a one star ( maybe a two star ) on board, next level supervisor. The captain, in this case is responsible for his ship's operation and supporting task force ops based on the task force commander's intent. The captain was not the superior officer in this case, he was one officer in a group under the command of a one star.

A Captain is the equivalent of a full Bird Colonel ( brigade commander ) under the command of a General. He went above the head of his General, that is a clear case of insubordination, jumping the chain of command, that is a complete breakdown of military protocol and discipline. Unacceptable behavior, he made decisions that were not his to make, kind of reminds me of Col Vindman, making decisions above his pay grade and agenda driven.

BotBoy has seen his share, doesn't have a lot of patience with people who try to complicate the issue. He's the mindset, and correctly so, soldiers who don't follow orders die! He's been there so take what robby and KiethD have to say with a grain of salt.

 

[sygn]

I said several times that those are two separate issues.

You guys should just say you don't want to go near that topic, instead of all these bullshit tactics.