I want to be a good writer

[SamScribble]

I'll vote for wholesome, EB. We have quite enough conflict and anger in the world. I enjoy writing about people doing their best to be nice to one another - even if they don't always succeed.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'll vote for wholesome, EB. We have quite enough conflict and anger in the world. I enjoy writing about people doing their best to be nice to one another - even if they don't always succeed.

This answers Lovecraft's question in another thread - you know yourself by the company you keep.

 

[AwkwardMD]

So since I have 70 some free days, my job told me I could probably come back after 90 days so I'm hoping I can, but right now I have some spare time and I want to try to become a good writer if that's possible.

Are good writers born? If you suck starting out, can you get better? Is there anything I can do, read, listen to, study...to become a good writer?

Anyone can learn, and we should all be so lucky as to have a creative outlet like writing. For me, the most important tool was learning how to read critically. Once I started to see how other stories were constructed, and what other people did that made me feel feelings for their characters, it became something I could turn around and do myself.

If you would ever like to have me beta read something you've written, or if you would like to beta read something of mine, let me know. I'd be thrilled either way.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Here's one piece of advice I offer to aspiring writers: read out loud. Read you own work out loud. Read others' work out loud.

Good writing invariably 'sounds' right. All the advice in the world about characters and conflicts and story arcs counts for little if the prose doesn't 'sound' right.

Good luck.

Good point!

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's one piece of advice I offer to aspiring writers: read out loud. Read you own work out loud. Read others' work out loud.

Good writing invariably 'sounds' right. All the advice in the world about characters and conflicts and story arcs counts for little if the prose doesn't 'sound' right.

Good luck.

This is a good idea. I don't quite do this, but I do play the words in my mind as I write so I can get their rhythm and melody. Getting a good feel for how words sound, and how they sound together -- the music of writing -- is part of being a good writer.

 

[Tefler]

Are good writers born? If you suck starting out, can you get better? Is there anything I can do, read, listen to, study...to become a good writer?

Like most things, you can get better at writing with training and practice. However, some aspects are much easier to learn than others.

I think that there are two main elements to writing:

1) Technical writing skill.
2) The ability to tell an engaging story.

The first includes things like having an expansive vocabulary, understanding grammar and punctuation rules, and knowing how to structure sentences and paragraphs. All this can be self-taught from the internet easily enough, but it'll be a steep learning curve for a novice writer.

The second is much harder to learn. You need to have a good imagination, the ability to understand how people think, act, and talk, as well as come up with an interesting premise for your story.

For example, creating an asshole antagonist that your readers will hate is pretty easy, but it's much harder to create a likeable protagonist. If you get that wrong then your story is doomed. Most people love Indiana Jones, but John Carter annoyed the audience... why?

Indiana Jones was an intelligent academic with a thirst for adventure. He was loyal to his friends, respectful of ancient cultures, disliked the Nazis, and generally a good guy right from the start.

John Carter was a reluctant hero who constantly bitched and whined about being trapped on Mars. He was mercenary, dismissive, arrogant, and selfish for a majority of the movie. He had a smoking-hot princess fall in love with him, but he still wanted to abandon her and return to Earth, even half-way through the third act.

A skilled storyteller would have given John Carter a much better developed character arc. His transformation from douchebag to hero came far too late, leaving the audience irritated with him for most of the movie.

I've read a lot of fiction, watched a lot of TV-shows and movies, and played a lot of computer games. All of that helped me when I started writing for myself, because I knew what I liked and what really pissed me off. Tastes are obviously very subjective, but ultimately I've written stories that I would have wanted to read myself. If other people like your stories too, then maybe you've got a future as a writer.

 

[litfan10]

Here's one piece of advice I offer to aspiring writers: read out loud. Read you own work out loud. Read others' work out loud.

Good writing invariably 'sounds' right. All the advice in the world about characters and conflicts and story arcs counts for little if the prose doesn't 'sound' right.

Good luck.

Absolutely this

 

[litfan10]

I tell my students to think of writing like tennis. Any Masters player out there got there by practicing a lot and often with a coach who knew what he was doing. You have to swing over and over and over and over paying close attention to all the details and learning what works and what doesn't.

I once went to an after conference party that had Stephen King in attendance after having been the keynote speaker. I watched so many people approach him, (none of them writers mind you, it was at a large university) telling him "I always wanted to be a writer." As the evening went on he was clearly getting annoyed with this. Finally after another such introduction he slapped himself on the forehead exclaiming "Gee, I always wanted to be a rocket scientist."

We write, because we have to write. Like tennis players with their tennis abilities, it's a skill that we embrace. What we do with the urge determines how good we get at it.

Long story short: embrace the fact that instinctively you are a writer. You ARE a writer. Now hone that skill/passion.

 

[litfan10]

I think this would be a good place to mention Robert Heinlein's Five Rules for Writers as they truly do work:

(1.) You must write
(2.) You must finish what you write
(3.) You must refrain from rewriting unless by editorial order (I add the caveat that the editorial order should guarantee sale before I'll consider rewriting)
(4.) You must put it on the market
(5.) You must keep it on the market until it sells

At some point people have added a sixth rule that does make sense. I don't know who originated this "rule:"

(6.) You must start working on something else

Early in my career I paid close attention to obeying these rules, and they really did work for me.

Good luck and foremost - happy writing

 

[Rustyoznail]

A quote came up on my diary today from someone who doubted their talent.

“If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.”

Vincent Van Gogh

 

[lovecraft68]

You can learn grammar and technical writing, but as far as story telling, creating good characters, realistic dialogue...anything creative as opposed to crossing T's and dotting I's, that can't be taught, you have that or you don't. You can always get better at it as you go, but you have to have the gift to begin with.

I personally disagree with the "read great authors see what they do..." waste of time. They're them, you're you. You do you as the saying goes. All reading others work does is make you compare yourself to them or hear their 'voice' in your head.

 

[Touch_type]

Hacks v artists

I’m a hack writer. You sound like you’re an artist. Hacks need hard-nosed, critical friends to improve; artists need more sensitive, but insistent, encouragement. There’s been a lot of good advice given here, I really wish I could take a lot of it. But I turn out my stories, try really hard to concentrate on proofing, editing etc and almost always fail. But I have a few hundred followers and get about 10k readers - for all of whom I’m really grateful - and they tolerate my shortcomings and I vow to try and do better next time.

You, from what you are saying, seem to be your own worst enemy. More critical of yourself than those who have read and commented; too quick to assume that those who are not following/reading you are somehow better informed.

I recently made a friend on here who made some perceptive comments on my writing. She described them as ‘romps’. She also spoke, in general terms, of her frustration with some of the depictions of women by male writers. I now know I’m a pretty good romp-writer. I wrote my next story thinking a lot more about the woman in it. I was more pleased than I’ve ever been that my friend really liked it. Everyone else? About a thousand readers, so not much of a take-up. Decent votes and other kind comments. If I want to be a better writer of women, I’m probably going to lose a lot of people who just want a rollicking read. I’m not really thinking in terms of becoming an unpopular, but ‘good’ writer. I hope I can take people with me. But it will be a journey taken on the page.

You have work that’s appreciated. You have readers and editors who are pointing out ‘real’ shortcomings which you might consider adjusting. But definitely, like almost everyone has said, you need to keep putting it out there. Sitting in a room with your most trenchant critic - you - isn’t going to do it for you.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

So since I have 70 some free days, my job told me I could probably come back after 90 days so I'm hoping I can, but right now I have some spare time and I want to try to become a good writer if that's possible.

Are good writers born? If you suck starting out, can you get better? Is there anything I can do, read, listen to, study...to become a good writer?

I don't think good writers are born. Good writing takes practice, discipline, and work like everything else.

My writing instructor high school said "Writing Down the Bones" was a great book to start with creative writing. It definitely helped me get a start, and the joys of writing by hand cannot be understated.

Get that book on kindle or something, and then grab a notebook, a pen, and a timer. You'll love it.

 

[LexxRuthless]

After I had read your original post, it put me in mind of an interview I watched many years ago on television. It was Jean M. Auel, and she was being interviewed about the time her fourth book was released. I think it was on 60 Minutes, but I am not sure now.

I bring this up because I distinctly recall her saying in that interview that her initial effort at writing Clan of the Cave Bear was just horrible. Every publisher rejected the story. Very few gave her any feedback, but one of the ones who did told her she was a terrible writer and that she should give up and try doing something else with her life.

Instead, she took writing classes at her local community college and her writing improved by leaps and bounds. Throughout the learning process, she was actively writing and applying those lessons. Her book tripled in size, but it was an impressive and well-written novel by the time she was done.

She acknowledged that she had friends and family who helped make it possible, who were there for her every step of the way.

 

[maxmayer221]

I don't suppose good writers are born. They are made. If you have such an opportunity and more then 2 months of free time you can learn whatever you want to. Start writing with short stories fisrt of all. When I needed I asked help here and improved my skills pretty much

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I don't suppose good writers are born. They are made. If you have... more then 2 months of free time you can learn whatever you want to. Start writing with short stories fisrt of all

By coincidence...

 

[CoffeeWithMonkeys]

I've decided I'm never going to be a writer. I know it's stupid to compare myself to others...but I do. I see other people getting praised and I read what they've written and some I can't even finish because it's boring, or the grammar is so bad I can't deal with it, or a whole plethora of other issues.

And yes it's stupid to compare ourselves to others, apples and oranges kind of thing, but I do.

I've been reading a bunch lately, I ordered four books from my teens-early 20s off eBay, and have been enjoying reading them. These were books that I remembered certain characters or scenes from and since they've stayed with me 30+ years I consider them to be written by 'good writers' and if nothing else I'm enjoying reading them again and can't wait for my kids to read them too to see if they enjoy them.

But yeah I guess I'm crushing my dreams of being a writer. or maybe I should say, author. Anyone can write, I'll never be an author though.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've decided I'm never going to be a writer. I know it's stupid to compare myself to others...but I do. I see other people getting praised and I read what they've written and some I can't even finish because it's boring, or the grammar is so bad I can't deal with it, or a whole plethora of other issues.

And yes it's stupid to compare ourselves to others, apples and oranges kind of thing, but I do.

I've been reading a bunch lately, I ordered four books from my teens-early 20s off eBay, and have been enjoying reading them. These were books that I remembered certain characters or scenes from and since they've stayed with me 30+ years I consider them to be written by 'good writers' and if nothing else I'm enjoying reading them again and can't wait for my kids to read them too to see if they enjoy them.

But yeah I guess I'm crushing my dreams of being a writer. or maybe I should say, author. Anyone can write, I'll never be an author though.

I hope you take this the right way. I am trying, respectfully, to respond to your inquiry and provide helpful feedback.

I don't understand your attitude. You write about being an "author" like it's a club someobody has to accept you into. You remind me of the scarecrow in Wizard of Oz who wanted the wizard to give him a brain. He already had a brain. The wizard gave him a diploma, in the end, but it didn't change anything. The scarecrow already had everything he needed. So did Dorothy, the tin man, and the cowardly lion.

You've spent a lot of time writing and publishing stories, so you must enjoy the process. You are an author, or writer, or whatever you want to call it. It doesn't matter what you call it. Enjoy the process. Forget about labels.

If what you are seeking is a more positive response to your stories from readers, then there are things you can do to improve your writing mechanics and to improve your story-telling abilities. You've gotten a lot of advice here on that point, some of it quite helpful. If you dedicated your time in a disciplined way to work on some of these things, you could, no doubt, improve your writing abilities.

If you want to get better at something, you have to put in the work. There's no shortcut. And you have to start doing the work with a positive, can-do attitude, because you'll never finish it otherwise.

 

[SamScribble]

I've decided I'm never going to be a writer. I know it's stupid to compare myself to others...but I do. I see other people getting praised and I read what they've written and some I can't even finish because it's boring, or the grammar is so bad I can't deal with it, or a whole plethora of other issues.

Don't despair at seeing others praise prose you find unreadable. I have now spent 60 years paying for my groceries (and a few other things) by writing and, in my opinion, 90 percent of stuff here on Lit is unreadable. If you are going to compare yourself with others, chose 'the others' whose work you enjoy and ignore the rest.

Good luck.

 

[yukonnights]

You can learn grammar and technical writing, but as far as story telling, creating good characters, realistic dialogue...anything creative as opposed to crossing T's and dotting I's, that can't be taught, you have that or you don't. You can always get better at it as you go, but you have to have the gift to begin with.

I understand the overall gist of this, just wanted to elaborate on it a bit.

Creativity is the plant that bears the fruit. I think Imagination is the seed of that plant. We all have an Imagination.

CoffeeWithMonkeys, as you read those favorite stories, note what it is about the story you're reading that you find intriguing — what makes it interesting. All the words and wordsmith are just the tools that translated those "imagined stories" into something that could be be shared with others. Play in your imagination until one of your daydreams catches more of your attention. That is the seed. Plant it, using your already learned skills as a wordsmith and see if it sprouts and begins to have a life of it's own — only needing you as the gardener to help it bear fruit.

Imagination is what we are born with, most of the other requirements to put words to that 'imagined world' must be, and can be, learned. Much of this you already have learned. Any lack you feel you have can probably be learned in any number of online tips/tutorials or even a community college class.

As you have seen, there are many here who encourage you to not give up. I hope you don't; unless the stress of writing is robbing peace and joy from your life. But I do hope you'll spend some time day-dreaming — imagining — as you have time. Imagine yourself and your friends as you were the first time you read those books you've ordered. Maybe your next story is in there somewhere.

And never overlook the fact that stress and worry can cast a dark shadow on our thoughts.

 

[JamesMiehoff]

CWM, I doubt there is anything I can add to the impressive list of advice in this thread. But that won't stop me.

1) Free advise is always worth exactly what you paid for it. It is not the words that are worth something, it is your reaction to the words that has value.
2) You can sit on the bench and gather splinters, but it is a hellova lot more fun being on the field.

The good thing about this site is that the readers get exactly what they paid for. You would be just one more writer in the throng of hundreds (maybe?). If a story turns out the way you liked it and the audience loves it or hates it, the bottom line is that it turned out the way you wanted it to. Don't start off writing to please anyone but yourself. One you have gotten a feel for the type of story and the types of characters you like, then swing for the fences. (Sorry for the sports tie ins, too many days stuck indoors with no sports makes James a cranky monkey).

The bottom line is to write for yourself. Write it as long as you think it needs to be, or as short. Lots of characters or just one. And when Anonymous drops one of his famous turd comments, laugh it off and start on your next masterpiece.

I remember reading a couple of your stories before you pulled them. I thought they were good. Certainly worth every penny I spent on them.

Just do it!

James

 

[litfan10]

In terms of natural talent as opposed to learnable qualities I think the one trait that needs to be natural (as in you are born with it) is story telling NOT writing. Writing is a skill and as such can be honed. Story telling is a different matter.

For example, Stephen King is a great story teller. But IMHO around the time he did Tommyknockers he changed for the worse. He stopped being a story teller and he focused on being more of a writer. I really didn't like his works as of Tommyknockers until about 11/22/63. I remember him giving an interview on TV when Misery came out and he mentioned that his spark for writing it came from wondering if he could write a story with minimal characters. To me he was focusing on the writing and not the story telling. I think that all the years of everyone telling him that he was the great living American writer went to his head. How could it not?

Of course I'm sure he is crying about my opinion as he deposits his royalty checks.

 

[NoJo]

A tale of a natural story teller

There is no gene for storytelling.

My father was what people would call a "natural" story teller. He was a successful writer, but more than this, he was a very good teacher. He ran a writing school. He also taught undergraduate screenwriters at university (although he himself left school at thirteen in order to support his brother - his childhood was somewhat Dickensian).

It was primarily his personal life history and his love of language, not his genetic makeup, that made him the epitome of a "natural story teller". But he also spent years learning (and subsequently teaching) the craft of writing.

The twentieth century, which my fathers' life spanned (he was born in 1914 and died ninety years later), itself had powerful dramatic arcs, archetypal conflicts, with villains and heroes. His experiences in the army gave him a huge amount of material, rubbing shoulders as he did with many people from many cultures, all living daily in fear of death.

He was Jewish: Jews are often credited with storytelling abilities. During Passover meal, the Exodus, the story of slavery, escape from captivity, emancipation and revenge is retold. The Exodus has such drama that even committed atheists like my father would get excited retelling it. And of course there are the self-deprecating Jewish jokes. They are the polar opposite of Schadenfreude - the subject is the teller himself, or if not, then at least one of "us". Jews laugh at themselves - which gives them an ability to look cynically at their own foibles and weaknesses first. This tendency to unsentimental documenting of human weakness is a good grounding for telling tales of others.

 

[lovecraft68]

In terms of natural talent as opposed to learnable qualities I think the one trait that needs to be natural (as in you are born with it) is story telling NOT writing. Writing is a skill and as such can be honed. Story telling is a different matter.

For example, Stephen King is a great story teller. But IMHO around the time he did Tommyknockers he changed for the worse. He stopped being a story teller and he focused on being more of a writer. I really didn't like his works as of Tommyknockers until about 11/22/63. I remember him giving an interview on TV when Misery came out and he mentioned that his spark for writing it came from wondering if he could write a story with minimal characters. To me he was focusing on the writing and not the story telling. I think that all the years of everyone telling him that he was the great living American writer went to his head. How could it not?

Of course I'm sure he is crying about my opinion as he deposits his royalty checks.

King's ego took over, and that, coupled with the fact people were afraid to edit him and let him ramble on, was not a great combination. Obviously no one can argue with his success, but the guy writing from the 90's on is not the guy who wrote Salem's Lot of Pet Sematary.

His son's style is the latter King style he is certainly not without talent, but he is killing it with Daddy's name. If he really wanted to earn it, he'd have waited longer to reveal who Joe Hill really was.

As for story telling...my wife is a perfect example of...not having it. She's a proficient non fiction writer and she's also a motivational speaker but for her technical writing prowess and proper speaking ability(she's earned toastmasters highest designation) she can't tell a joke to save her life and jokes are story telling

She can also give a seven minute on point speech in a competition on any subject, but when we talk and she's telling me about her day its "so then we...and oh, right I forgot that so and so was there, and then we, and then and then and...

To the point I'm like "is there a point here anywhere?"

Guess my point is she's far more educated and professionally trained than I am, but she couldn't write fiction to save her life, whereas my HS drop out ass can do that with no problem....now if there was a way to combine our skills....

 

[CoffeeWithMonkeys]

King's ego took over, and that, coupled with the fact people were afraid to edit him and let him ramble on, was not a great combination. Obviously no one can argue with his success, but the guy writing from the 90's on is not the guy who wrote Salem's Lot of Pet Sematary.

His son's style is the latter King style he is certainly not without talent, but he is killing it with Daddy's name. If he really wanted to earn it, he'd have waited longer to reveal who Joe Hill really was.

As for story telling...my wife is a perfect example of...not having it. She's a proficient non fiction writer and she's also a motivational speaker but for her technical writing prowess and proper speaking ability(she's earned toastmasters highest designation) she can't tell a joke to save her life and jokes are story telling

She can also give a seven minute on point speech in a competition on any subject, but when we talk and she's telling me about her day its "so then we...and oh, right I forgot that so and so was there, and then we, and then and then and...

To the point I'm like "is there a point here anywhere?"

Guess my point is she's far more educated and professionally trained than I am, but she couldn't write fiction to save her life, whereas my HS drop out ass can do that with no problem....now if there was a way to combine our skills....

This. I think this is also something that makes me so self-conscious about my writing and makes me second guess all things grammar.
I dropped out at 15. I have a 9th grade education. My now ex loved to throw it in my face that he was college educated.

I'm still reading everyone's replies. I do appreciate everyone that took time to reply