First / Third Person

[Ezrollin]

I'm trying to decide if I should write a story in the first or third person. Give me your personal opinion of why you would use one over the other. I'm of the opinion that certain types of stories lend themselves to one or the other.

 

[KeithD]

I agree with your opinion. Start writing it in the POV you think it should be in and if it keeps trying to switch on you, go with that. If it deals with emotions or internal conflict, I almost always go with first person. About a third of the time that I start something in third person, I wind up changing it to first.

 

[NotWise]

I'm trying to decide if I should write a story in the first or third person. Give me your personal opinion of why you would use one over the other. I'm of the opinion that certain types of stories lend themselves to one or the other.

I use both, but I use third person unless my concept of the story specifically needs first person, which isn't that common.

I don't think stories are entirely in one point of view unless they're told completely in narrative. While narrative may be in third person, dialogue is generally in first person, with each character speaking from their own point-of-view. If you write a story largely in dialogue, then first person can dominate a story even if the narrative is in third person.

 

[SimonDoom]

There's no universal correct answer. It depends on the needs of the story.

The first thing to ask yourself is if you want to tell the story from more than one point of view. For instance, will the story require being told from more than one point of view because you want to tell what's happen to both Character A and Character B and sometimes they aren't together? If so then you'll need to tell it from third person omnisicent, or third person limited to two people, or perhaps more.

If not, then you have your choice between first person and third person limited (to one person's perspective).

Is it important to convey that the narrator is surprised? Then first person might make sense, because it's easier to convey surprise when the perspective is limited wholly to the narrator.

Do you want to tell the whole story in one voice, or do you want to separate the main character's voice from the narrator's voice? If the former then first person makes sense. If the latter, choose third person.

Some erotica readers think that first person gives more immediacy and is more satisfying than third person. I don't think that way, but many do. What do you think?

All things being equal, I prefer third person limited to first person, because it gives me more versatility in story telling. My own authorial voice isn't limited to the education and background of my main character.

 

[AlinaX]

Often I start writing in one, get stuck, then change to the other and it works.

 

[SimonDoom]

The other thing I didn't mention is -- sometimes it's just fun as an author to try different things. Don't write every story the same way. Experiment. With some of my stories it's a tossup whether to write in first person or third person limited. I mix it up because it's more fun to mix it up. Write one story one way, and another another. Then look at the results and see how the story works for you. You may not know ahead of time.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There's no universal correct answer. It depends on the needs of the story.

...

Some erotica readers think that first person gives more immediacy and is more satisfying than third person. I don't think that way, but many do. What do you think?

All things being equal, I prefer third person limited to first person, because it gives me more versatility in story telling.

I tend to agree with these key points. Over my body of work I've shifted from mostly first person to nearly always third person, but using what I call a "very close narrator" simply because I can get the same intimacy as with first person, but the flexibility to go where I like as a narrator.

To prefer one and to reject the other as a matter of principle, as some folk occasionally and loudly do, is just as silly to me as the "I never read long stories, I never read short ones" debate - to be hard over one way or the other is limiting, I reckon. Several of my most recent stories have been first person - but I never spend more than the first sentence deciding what person a story is going to be - "Oh, this one's first person? Okay, keep writing." It's never a "creative decision" for me, just whichever voice chimes in first.

Try both. Over time you'll probably find a preference, but don't make that into a "rule."

 

[yukonnights]

I'm trying to decide if I should write a story in the first or third person. Give me your personal opinion of why you would use one over the other. I'm of the opinion that certain types of stories lend themselves to one or the other.

I just took a peek at your story 'Incognito', in which you used first person pov. Of what I read you handled it well. What is lacking is any idea of what the woman was experiencing emotionally.

Instead of answering your question, could I encourage you to tell us more about the story and you goals/concerns.

I'm in the camp that likes the first person approach in most cases for erotica. But I also stretch some of the artificial constraints some put on the application/use of first person pov.

In very general terms; I view third person limited to be too constraining unless it's a story like masturbation or voyeurism that only has one character's thoughts/emotions/interior dialogue involved. If I have more than one character who also has thoughts/emotions that I want to portray, then third person omniscient is an option. But that often seems to get too convoluted and boring/distant. For example; I have completely rewritten one of those into first person to salvage the work.

Anyway, I think it's good that you're thinking about this

 

[SimonDoom]

In very general terms; I view third person limited to be too constraining unless it's a story like masturbation or voyeurism that only has one character's thoughts/emotions/interior dialogue involved.

Why would it be more limited than first person? You can do everything with it that you can with first person. If the story is told from the point of view of person A, you have every bit as much ability to get into A's thoughts and point of view in third person limited as in first person. The main difference is the pronouns.

The key to staying intimate with third person omniscient is only to switch points of view between scenes or chapters. That way, as long as you are in a scene you tell it from just one POV. I usually, though not always, do this. I didn't do it so much when I started writing, but I like it better now.

I like what EB said -- you can make third person more intimate by writing in more of a "close narrative" style where you close the gap between what the author is telling you and what is being revealed of the main character's perceptions and thoughts. It's challenging but it's very rewarding, and when done well it gives (in my view) an initimacy similar to that of first person.

 

[Voboy]

I almost always go first person, but for some reason I prefer third for fantasy/SF pieces. Why?

Who knows. I've got no deeply personal insights to share. Sometimes FP "feels right," sometimes not. There have been two or three times that I've started one way and then switched, always within the first 1000 words. Listen to yourself; you'll know.

I do tend to write fairly informally, even conversationally, no matter which voice I use. But I enjoy dialogue both as a reader and as a writer, and that's what FP basically is.

 

[NotWise]

Why would it be more limited than first person? You can do everything with it that you can with first person.

I think the choice is a matter of personal writing style. Maybe for Yukon and a few others, first person "feels" inherently better because it fits better in their writing style. I would never say something like "first person is better" or "third person is better" as a general recommendation because that won't always be true.

The story I'm working on now is in first person. I used first person partly because there are only two real characters in the whole story, and once the scene is set it's largely told in dialogue. I also used it partly because, in the rather unusual context of the story, I thought it would be more effective.

I can only remember once when I started a story in first person and rewrote it in third person. As the story developed, it became too expansive and there were too many characters for me to make it work in first person.

 

[KeithD]

I almost always go first person, but for some reason I prefer third for fantasy/SF pieces. Why?

I would think that it's because you need a lot of description to set up an alternate world--and that doing that would slide you into the need to use third person.

 

[Voboy]

I would think that it's because you need a lot of description to set up an alternate world--and that doing that would slide you into the need to use third person.

Maybe.

I usually don't do a lot of lengthy exposition though. I do it through dialogue, or just through context: if you mention that a buzz-lift lighting module burned out, and a character rolls her eyes and says, "Jesus fuck. Again?" You don't really need to waste time describing a buzz-lift lighting module, nor even explaining what it's for.

You can leave it at that, as-is. The reader knows what he/she needs to know: it's some hunk of shit that is poorly-enough designed that it burns out a lot, requiring tedious work to replace it. Done. No more needed.

When I wrote my first SF I wrote it in FP, like any other of my stories, but very quickly it nagged at me. I just felt TP was more appropriate, somehow, and I can't explain why.

 

[yukonnights]

Why would it be more limited than first person? You can do everything with it that you can with first person. If the story is told from the point of view of person A, you have every bit as much ability to get into A's thoughts and point of view in third person limited as in first person. The main difference is the pronouns.

The key to staying intimate with third person omniscient is only to switch points of view between scenes or chapters. That way, as long as you are in a scene you tell it from just one POV. I usually, though not always, do this. I didn't do it so much when I started writing, but I like it better now.

I like what EB said -- you can make third person more intimate by writing in more of a "close narrative" style where you close the gap between what the author is telling you and what is being revealed of the main character's perceptions and thoughts. It's challenging but it's very rewarding, and when done well it gives (in my view) an initimacy similar to that of first person.

I think the word "immediacy" — noun, the quality of bringing one into direct and instant involvement with something, giving rise to a sense of urgency or excitement. — best describes what I meant in regard to the more distant telling done by a "third person".

I like third person in some situations. But to my mind, to best connect the minds/emotions/feelings/doubts/ of the characters intimately and with immediacy to the reader is along the path of least resistance. For physical feelings, fears, doubt, thrills, etc. that path is via first person. Another nice bonus is that it can rotate between the characters as quick as dialogue can. Simply include a clip of narrative in that person's head voice in with their speaking words.

In third person, Character A has to experience something. Then if there's any emotion/thought/physical feelings, those have to get sent upstairs to the third person — who then sends it back down in non-personal descriptions with distant words, he/she, felt, etc.

In first person, all of Character A's emotions/thoughts/ physical feelings come instantly in the form of the personal words; I, me, feels, etc.
***
I'll try to do a quick example. Maybe that will show better than I can tell. Note: I'm gong to use 3rd present tense to keep it fair.(emphasis on quick )

3rd John (in his paragraph)
John and Linda decide to make this the night — to make this the place, where their love will be consummated. John is so eager, and yet he feels a twinge of doubt and fear that he can satisfy such a beautiful creature as Nelly — he hopes it happens for both of them at the same time.

"This looks like a good place to spread the blanket. What do you think Nel?"

3rd Nelly (in her paragraph — no head hopping, etc.)
Nelly can't possibly express all that she thinks. She is afraid of what he will think and that he might think she is a slut if he knows what she's been thinking in bed all alone. But she is ready, more than ready and she can hardly contain herself.

"Yes … yes, this is perfect baby. You'll have to sorta show me what to do … but yes, I have waited long enough for this moment — make love to me John. I love this place and I love you."

***

1st/John (context & dialogue makes it clear who's head we're in)
Linda and I have talked this through, and we both agree that there is no reason to wait any longer. This is the time. This is the place. My doubt nags at me. and I hope I can can last long enough that she comes too — I hope it happens for us both at the same time. "This looks like a good place to spread the blanket. What do you think Nel?"

1st/Nelly (context & dialogue makes it clear who's head we're in)
What do I think? My God, I couldn't possibly tell him, he'd think I'm a slut. I'm so anxious I can hardly contain myself. "Yes … yes, this is perfect baby. You'll have to sorta show me what to do … but yes, I have waited long enough for this moment — make love to me John. I love this place and I love you."

Hope this helps explain my insanity

 

[KeithD]

In first person, all of Character A's emotions/thoughts/ physical feelings come instantly in the form of the personal words; I, me, feels, etc.

Yep, this.

And there's no reason to beat the drum over using one rather than the other. Let the author use the one that feels right to him/her. They're both legitimate.

 

[yukonnights]

Maybe.

I usually don't do a lot of lengthy exposition though. I do it through dialogue, or just through context: if you mention that a buzz-lift lighting module burned out, and a character rolls her eyes and says, "Jesus fuck. Again?" You don't really need to waste time describing a buzz-lift lighting module, nor even explaining what it's for.

You can leave it at that, as-is. The reader knows what he/she needs to know: it's some hunk of shit that is poorly-enough designed that it burns out a lot, requiring tedious work to replace it. Done. No more needed.

When I wrote my first SF I wrote it in FP, like any other of my stories, but very quickly it nagged at me. I just felt TP was more appropriate, somehow, and I can't explain why.

Story was okay. Gave it a 1 star because it wasn't clear what the buzz-lift lighting module was. I skimmed the rest after that. signed, annonymouse - first cousin of Mickey Mouse.

 

[yukonnights]

Yep, this.

And there's no reason to beat the drum over using one rather than the other. Let the author use the one that feels right to him/her. They're both legitimate.

They truly are. I do like good stories in third. I'm just trying to answer the questions asked of me. Each of us does our best when what we're doing fits like a comfortable coat.

For new writers, maybe some of this is helpful though. Plus, I'm tired of Netflix already and I'm stuck in the house — maybe a trip to the ocean is in order

EDIT: I fear we have frightened the OP away though

 

[Voboy]

Story was okay. Gave it a 1 star because it wasn't clear what the buzz-lift lighting module was. I skimmed the rest after that. signed, annonymouse - first cousin of Mickey Mouse.

'sokay. I'd have given it no better than a two-star myself, if I'm being honest.

 

[Handley_Page]

I'm trying to decide if I should write a story in the first or third person. Give me your personal opinion of why you would use one over the other. I'm of the opinion that certain types of stories lend themselves to one or the other.

I'm a believer in the omniscient Narrator.

 

[SimonDoom]

Hope this helps explain my insanity

It does. I understand what people mean when they say they think first person gives a greater sense of immediacy. I don't quite react that way myself as a reader or writer, but many do and I can understand why.

A note, though: Again, not everyone agrees, but when I read a narrative that goes from one first person perspective to another (as opposed to using third person omniscient to do the same) I get puzzled by something, and it usually bugs me. My question is: how does this happen? When you have first person, you're in one person's head, and it's as though that person is writing the story. When you have third person, you know there's a separate narrator, and it makes sense because that person is writing the story. But how do two first person narratives get put together? How is that happening? It usually distracts me. When you tell a story from more than one perspective, the more normal and I think less distracting way to do it is through third person. That's not to say one way is right or wrong, just that at least some readers (I don't think I'm the only one) find this style of narrative usually jarring and not as effective.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'm not sure if it's two first-person perspectives that I find jarring, or simply that the usual stories I read which do it tend to be rather bad fanfic (usually written by teenage girls and posted on AO3), so I associate the device with bad writing.

I've found readers prefer my 1st-person stories, but that's possibly just down to the subject matter of the couple 3rd-person ones.

 

[NotWise]

A note, though: Again, not everyone agrees, but when I read a narrative that goes from one first person perspective to another (as opposed to using third person omniscient to do the same) I get puzzled by something, and it usually bugs me. My question is: how does this happen?

I've never seen it done, so I can't speak for others.

The story I'm working on now is an experiment for me in a lot of ways -- even in some ways that don't work for me when I see other people do them. It's a risk.

The only actual characters in the story are a man and woman; the man is the first-person POV character, and he relates the story in past tense. Much of the dialogue in the story consists of the woman relating a series of five sexual fantasies. She tells her stories in first person, present tense, as if she experiences them as she speaks. Getting that effect is the reason I used the fairly complicated construction.

So, story-in-a-story is one way to switch between two POV characters. It can also be used (I think it often is used) to relate a story in first person within the context of a third-person narrative.

 

[KeithD]

Sabb and I, as Shabbu, have a lot of alternating first-person chapter stories posted here. We get good ratings and have won a contest with that technique. They sell in the marketplace too.

 

[ElectricBlue]

So, story-in-a-story is one way to switch between two POV characters. It can also be used (I think it often is used) to relate a story in first person within the context of a third-person narrative.

Yes, I've occasionally used this approach to temporarily shift perspective, a story within a story. You just need to flag the change to make it obvious, to avoid confusing Simon. You don't need flashing lights to do that, but it shouldn't come out of the blue, either - the shift should be consistent with the overall construction.

I'm about to do exactly this, in my current work in progress. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sabb and I, as Shabbu, have a lot of alternating first-person chapter stories posted here. We get good ratings and have won a contest with that technique. They sell in the marketplace too.

Can you cite to an example or two? I'd be interested in seeing how that's done.