Advice on my very first piece

[lilbluemage]

I actually don't write in first person very often, and most of my future pieces I upload here will be in third person, so I'm especially interested in hearing how I can improve in that department!

https://literotica.com/s/the-plague-dance-pt-01

Reluctance and public play, in case those aren't your cups of tea. I plan on making it about four parts long, and I wanna make sure I take the time to improve between each chapter!

 

[Jada59]

I actually don't write in first person very often, and most of my future pieces I upload here will be in third person, so I'm especially interested in hearing how I can improve in that department!

https://literotica.com/s/the-plague-dance-pt-01

Reluctance and public play, in case those aren't your cups of tea. I plan on making it about four parts long, and I wanna make sure I take the time to improve between each chapter!

I did read it. I don't think it was badly written but there was nothing in there that made me want to read more.

 

[LesDesirable]

First thing I do is scroll down and check page/word count. 1 page, approx 2500 words. Probably too short to get super ratings on this site, unless very well written and to the point.

The scene and build-up end up being somewhat unnecessary as the dance unfolds, the cosplay being forgotten as the dance unfolded. Perhaps some more building on the assorted characters swirling around the dance floor might add substance to the scene and help with the non-reluctance portion, giving better feel to the press of the crowd. Your rhythm was good, the 70 to 80 word paragraphs, helped keep the story moving to a beat. The limited amount of sexual interaction was fair; I do not imagine a little grope, and a thumb suck are what most are looking for, but it was OK for the theme.

The tense and format are somewhat troublesome, as calling antagonist "you" can be somewhat hard to pull off, especially in present tense. Him, He, It, the Plague, or anything else might have worked better - unless this tale were extended into a second meeting where the "you" might work.

Overall, not bad, not great. You should avoid words like rambly and gonna when possible to keep the grammar nazis happy. You should avoid things like calling dance steps, "white-people moves," lest you get labeled a racist. Just goofy dance moves is fine.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Wow. Your story is very good and you are an enthusiastic storyteller! How in the world have you turned me, a boisterous and bossy nightmare, into a goddamn mouse?... This game of choking chicken somehow strokes my competitive streak, and my lips curl into a defiant smile.... Evocative and as glittering as your mermaid leggings. I gave you five stars.

That being said, and solely based on my experience around the site and forum, it did not read as erotica per se, by which I mean that the (restricted) prurience of your story didn’t compete with or outweigh its literary value. I think your story could just as easily have been a published in a mainstream anthology of short stories. In my opinion, that’s far more a “limitation” to its reception on Literotica than whether you write in first, second or third person; readers that might otherwise respond positively to this in an anthology or an online literary magazine may instead have a dull response to reading it here, outside of the Non-Erotic category.

I wouldn’t worry about using colloquial language and informal contractions (many of us writers do, especially in first person, and to great success: look at how well ChloeTzang’s stories do) or “white guy dancing” to clearly describe what is, well, white guy dancing. But in vein with jada59’s post above, as much as I enjoyed The Plague Dance, I don't feel compelled to read a part two. The story was self-contained, and without any rising action or tension that demands to be resolved, or characters that need further exploration. Are these a series of stand-alone four part stories you plan to write, or specifically a continuation of The Plague Dance?

But of course, this is just my opinion and conjecture; please let us know what the general reader reception is when you have comments/ reader feedback. All in all, an excellent first post! Best of luck with your stories!

 

[AlinaX]

I find the use of 'you' in first person to be very distracting / too intense.

 

[AwkwardMD]

First:

Non-con is not about sex. You can kid yourselves all you want, but non-con is about power. The OP's story hits that aspect of non-con. Job well done. Could there have been more? I think so, but if the goal was to write a story where someone's agency was taken away from them, then mission accomplished.

Second:

What you have done here, in terms of perspective, is a hybrid of first and second person. You wrote yourself a nice little non-con fantasy and then made the reader complicit in that act. If the goal was to make people uncomfortable, then job well done. It is an implicit quality of art to provoke and unsettle. I do it myself sometimes, and I applaud the effort.

However...

Works like that are polarizing, to say the least. Some readers will enjoy slipping into that role, and some will vehemently distance themselves from it (and, most likely, never read something of yours again). Take some time to consider what you want out of writing. If you want fans, a following, or to please an audience, then stylistic choices that provoke the reader are dicey to say the least.

Third:

The story was frontloaded with exposition. You gave the reader a lot of information (who, where, why, when, and a bunch of the protagonists preferences) in a few brief, blunt paragraphs. Immediately after that, you introduced friends of the protagonist who, ultimately, did not do very much. Dialog is definitely a skill to learn (you'd be surprised how hard it can be to make characters talk like people sometimes), but having the same information come out in the course of a short conversation can add a lot of organic authenticity to your story.

Fourth:

The power of first person storytelling is to have that inner monologue. You can share really personal moments with the reader, and clue them in on thoughts that the character doesn't normally share with others. However, in a First/Second hybrid story where we the readers are also a character, it's... thematically messy to read the protagonists mind.

It is not impossible to write First/Second hybrid. Like anything else in writing, telling a story like this has it's strengths. It's a tool. Learning to use the tool is just as important as learning when it's the right time to use that tool.

 

[SeabornFare]

First:
Non-con is not about sex. You can kid yourselves all you want, but non-con is about power.

Non-con is not 100% about power. The reasons very from deviant to deviant. If non-con is about power, then all crime is about power, which isn't the case. If non-con was only about power, then sex wouldn't even be needed. Forcing someone to drink a glass of water would suffice, but it doesn't.

 

[AwkwardMD]

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3r3LToIk5kn6/giphy.gif

 

[soulhouse]

First:
Non-con is not about sex. You can kid yourselves all you want, but non-con is about power.

I guess what you mean by "about" is open to interpretation, but otherwise it feels to me as if you're conflating the real world with erotic fantasy.

I'm no expert, but it sounds reasonable to suggest that rape in the real world is all about power, and not at all about sex. So far, so good. However, as an example, an old girlfriend of mine used to have fantasies about being raped, and even wanted me to break into her house and pretend to rape her. I refused. I'm sure she never wanted to be raped in reality, though, so clearly there's a distinction between non-consent in the real and fantasy worlds.

I enjoy stories about female domination and being forced into enjoying sex. It's a fantasy about being pushed through the barrier of one's sexual repression. That said, I find mistress/slave scenarios faintly ridiculous, so, while you could argue that the eroticism of non-consent still derives from loss of power, in this case it is firmly rooted in the sexual realm and doesn't apply outside it, and is therefore most definitely about sex.
[/QUOTE]

 

[SimonDoom]

I thought it was well-written. There's no question that you can write. I agree with some of the comments that have been made and will distill my thoughts:

1. You shift from past tense in the first paragraph to present tense. Stick with one tense. Most of the time I prefer past tense, but present tense is fine for your story.

2. I agree with AwkwardMD's comment about exposition. Replace some of the exposition/set up on the first page with some dialogue between the narrator and her friends, which will accomplish the same thing but add interest and variety.

3. I-you stories have their place, but I'm not sure if this story is one of them. When a first-person narrator uses "you", she's talking to me, the reader, but I don't know who I even am. The default is to refer to other persons in the third person, and before deviating from that default, ask, why would I do that? I don't see why you would in this story.

4. The end seems a bit abrupt and cryptic. I'm not sure what your intent was with it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Okay. So.

Readers can satisfy themselves with whatever justification makes them feel better when it comes to enjoying something. It doesn’t matter why a reader likes non-con, or BDSM, or trans content. Readers have that luxury. Creators should not.

In order to demonstrate my point, I’m going to share a piece of art.

Pretty right? Flashy. Stylish. Also kind of garbage.

This is what the same picture looks like if you tilt it so that the woman is standing, you know, like a human being.

That is a stance/pose that no human being has ever intentionally struck.
Nobody holds a sword like that.
The background is comprised of two different images that aren’t aligned.
If you follow the ground level, as established by the feet of the mech behind her, then the purple haired woman is floating at least a foot off the ground.

This artist is CLEARLY talented, but their talent lies in using photoshop and not in human anatomy, or kinesiology, or architecture, or depth. The end result is pretty, but only if you don’t pay any attention to it. It would not have been hard to make that picture differently, with more cohesiveness, but this is where the artist said “good enough" and that is telling.

The same is true of writers, except that instead of anatomy or kinesiology, we need to understand human psychology, and motivations. Why we do what we do. Storytelling is about making connections with an audience, and we do that by portraying human beings doing human things.

From Wikipedia:

American clinical psychologist David Lisak, co-author of a 2002 study of undetected rapists,[50] says that compared with non-rapists, both undetected and convicted rapists are measurably more angry at women and more motivated by a desire to dominate and control them, are more impulsive, disinhibited, anti-social, hypermasculine, and less empathic.

This is psychology. It’s not widely disputed. This is what motivates the plague doctor. The protagonist, much like a prior poster’s ex-girlfriend, is motivated by a dark inner fantasy of allowing this to happen, and it is at the intersections of these two motivations that you get a story. This is what the OP has done. Domination and control. Power. I can touch you in front of all these people and you won’t say a thing.

Just so it’s clear, the reason I’m pointing this out is that it seemed like other responders and a commenter on the story itself bemoaned a lack of sexual content, and I am trying to demonstrate that the current level of sexual content is a feature, not a bug. It is working as intended. “Not enough sex”, in a story like this, is a matter of personal taste, not an actual criticism.

Also, to be clear, it is fine to like the above picture as is just as it is fine to create art like that. It just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. If this is what you want to make, and what you want to consume, then best of luck to you!

 

[SeabornFare]

From Wikipedia

No single facet explains the motivation for rape; the underlying motives of rapists can be multi-faceted. Several factors have been proposed: anger,[46] power,[47] sadism, sexual gratification, or evolutionary proclivities.[48][49]

 

[AwkwardMD]

Aubrey Plaza, protect me!

No single facet explains the motivation for rape; the underlying motives of rapists can be multi-faceted. Several factors have been proposed: anger,[46] power,[47] sadism, sexual gratification, or evolutionary proclivities.[48][49] However, some factors have significant causal evidence supporting them. American clinical psychologist David Lisak, co-author of a 2002 study of undetected rapists,[50] says that compared with non-rapists, both undetected and convicted rapists are measurably more angry at women and more motivated by a desire to dominate and control them, are more impulsive, disinhibited, anti-social, hypermasculine, and less empathic.[51]

Very classy.

I'm not sure what your stake is in this, exactly. You just seem to want to split hairs, so good luck with that.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Just so it’s clear, the reason I’m pointing this out is that it seemed like other responders and a commenter on the story itself bemoaned a lack of sexual content, and I am trying to demonstrate that the current level of sexual content is a feature, not a bug. It is working as intended. “Not enough sex”, in a story like this, is a matter of personal taste, not an actual criticism.

I’m not sure if this comment is directed at mine; I’m not sure how your takeaway would be that I’ve made any comment on what does/not equate sex, erotica, fantasy, non-con or personal turn-ons. But I’ve enjoyed your comments as they reiterate many things I enjoyed about The Plague Dance and that I agree worked so well in this gripping (pun intended) story.

In case the OP has any similarly misinterpretation of it, I want to make sure my post was clear: I wouldn't have been surprised to read your story in The New Yorker or Salon versus Literotica, because it’s literary value is so high. But in my personal, and limited, experience on the site, I’ve bemoaned that subtle well-written erotica sometimes receives a lackluster reception from readers. Yours is that. There are readers/commenters on the site (and even writers, too) that may argue, for example, that a story isn’t erotica without kissing, nudity, penetration etc etc... naysayers seem to have their nerves rather than imaginations stoked by complexity. But all this is conjecture and just my opinion. There’s no telling what the reception to your story will be, but if such happens in regards to your story, I hope that you won’t be discouraged, will keep writing and will let us know what feedback you receive.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I find the use of 'you' in first person to be very distracting

Agree. I gave it away after about four paragraphs where you were telling me what I did. No, I was doing none of those things, don't try to suspend my disbelief and tell me I was. So much easier just to use "he, him, his."

Direct address like this is very difficult to pull off, and I don't think I've seen it done yet in a way, for me, that doesn't grate. At least you weren't telling me I was doing things only women do, which is the usual problem with direct address, for me.

I didn't give it a score.

Only because of the discussion above, I skimmed the rest to see what all the excitement was about. I'm not sure they're talking about your story, though, which didn't seem to be about non-con at all. A bit of a BDSM scene with "reluctance," maybe - but she seemed quite willing. How this story triggers a discussion about rape and power exchange I don't know. That's a thread hijack, I think.

 

[SeabornFare]

Very classy.

I'm not sure what your stake is in this, exactly. You just seem to want to split hairs, so good luck with that.

I was just adding on to the quote what you left off. And I don't believe saying that rape isn't 100% about power is splitting hairs. As in most crimes, if not all, power is an aspect, but it is not the sole motivating force, and for some, it may not even be a factor, even after pointed out to them. Some offenders may share the same reasons, but not all offenders share the same reasons.

 

[KeithD]

I was just adding on to the quote what you left off. And I don't believe saying that rape isn't 100% about power is splitting hairs. As in most crimes, if not all, power is an aspect, but it is not the sole motivating force, and for some, it may not even be a factor, even after pointed out to them. Some offenders may share the same reasons, but not all offenders share the same reasons.

Agree. Sweeping generalizations always (*smile*) go too far and damage the argument.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

How this story triggers a discussion about rape and power exchange I don't know. That's a thread hijack, I think.

I agree.

On second person (since this thread’s already been taken off topic): have you heard of/read Bright Lights, Big City? It’s from the early 80s, but you might enjoy it and it’s a very good demonstration of what makes second person so powerful when it works.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I agree.

On second person (since this thread’s already been taken off topic): have you heard of/read Bright Lights, Big City? It’s from the early 80s, but you might enjoy it and it’s a very good demonstration of what makes second person so powerful when it works.

I've heard of it but not read it. Next time I'm at the library, I'll see if it's on the shelf.

 

[SimonDoom]

I agree.

On second person (since this thread’s already been taken off topic): have you heard of/read Bright Lights, Big City? It’s from the early 80s, but you might enjoy it and it’s a very good demonstration of what makes second person so powerful when it works.

I read it back in the 80s back when Jay McInerny was one of the young "It" writers. I thought the use of second person was interesting, but not necessarily persuasive. To me, use of second person is like a literary parlor trick. It's showy, and it's one of the features of that book that helped it get so much attention. But I sure as heck wouldn't want to read many books with that POV. That said, McInerny obviously was a talented writer and it was an interesting read.

The I-You perspective is not a form of second person, but a form of first person, where the narrator in part addresses other persons in the second person and not just the third person. I think it would be more effective in a story that featured ONLY two people, such as a seduction in a bedroom or isolated setting.

 

[SimonDoom]

First:

Non-con is not about sex. You can kid yourselves all you want, but non-con is about power. .

Hmmm. I think it's accurate to say that power is an essential part of it, and that it can't be understood without understanding the power dynamic, but that's not the same thing as saying it's not about sex -- at least in part. That's a reductionist approach, and it requires defining your terms in a way that I think runs contrary to most people's understanding.

Non-con is about sex in the sense that it involves activity of a sexual nature. The activity in OP's story is definitely of a sexual nature.

Non-con is about sex in the sense that it is experienced as sexual by the characters in the story. That's clearly true in the OP's story. The narrator/protagonist is alarmed but turned on. That's sexual. We don't yet know the motives of the mysterious stranger. Where I agree with you is that the author/OP would be well served, if she's going to write sequels, thinking through why this mysterious stranger is doing what he's doing and giving him a plausible (which means, probably, very dark and perhaps sociopathic) motivation, rather than just passing him off as a fun, kinky guy who likes it a little rough. There's an opportunity to take this in a direction that's a little deeper than what one typically reads at Literotica.

Non-con is about sex in the sense that readers experience/enjoy it as erotic/sexual, and that's why it shows up in an erotic story website.

I could see this story being continued, because so far so little has been said about the mysterious stranger that the field is wide open to show what he might do next and what his motivation is. It could be interesting, and the OP/author certainly has the writing skills to pull it off.