Slavery reparations proposals could cost US more than $17 trillion

[von_Bismarck]

You seem to think it interesting that others wouldn't.

So then do you think some are owed reparations?

If so who? And who exactly owes them??

I am generally undecided on whether reparations are owed and to whom. But I do believe it depends significantly on the reparations proposal. Booker and Harris have proposals they call "reparations," which is little more than branding.

 

[BotanyBoy]

i've already done so
in previously published threads.

Not talking about previous threads, I'm asking right now.

Name the specific factors and make a case for a redress.

I am generally undecided on whether reparations are owed and to whom. But I do believe it depends significantly on the reparations proposal. Booker and Harris have proposals they call "reparations," which is little more than branding.

On that we agree.

I think the Japanese folks who were wrongfully interned during WWII would have a good case...but that would be specific individuals.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Can the whites get it for the British Press Gangs, that was also slavery?

Especially people of Irish descent. They were slaves also, sold by the English Crown to farms and other companies in the Western Hemisphere. And how about all the people of English descent who were held in bondage during The Dark Ages? This was not chattel slavery, but the differences were minor ones.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Not talking about previous threads, I'm asking right now.

Name the specific factors and make a case for a redress.



On that we agree.

I think the Japanese folks who were wrongfully interned during WWII would have a good case...but that would be specific individuals.

I believe the Japanese people or their descendants did receive reparations, if they could show they suffered losses because of the internments.

 

[FGB]

Fuck a bunch of "Reparations".

Yeah, I said it.

Are we going to start charging Mexicans that snuck in that became citizens and live here?

Hell NO.

They are citizens. They can work and improve their families just like my people did upon arriving here.

Makes about as much sense as trying to charge the slaves for passage on the slave ships!

You are here. you can either sit on your ass and bitch about it, or get off your ass and do something to improve yourselves and the country you live in.

I might point that there are many more places to live in this world.

 

[Talk_Radio]

Reparations Happy Hour' invites white people to pay for drinks

 

[Boxlicker101]

The vast majority of descendants of the Holocaust are dead too

Guess we should forget them as well...amirite?

Pears and pomegranates.

Beginning in 1952, West Germany and France began paying reparations to survivors of The Holocaust and descendants of victims. A large part of this was paid to or through the nation of Israel. It was possible to determine exactly who deserved compensation, because detailed records had been kept and many of the survivors well still alive.

 

[bellisarius]

Not talking about previous threads, I'm asking right now.

Name the specific factors and make a case for a redress.



On that we agree.

I think the Japanese folks who were wrongfully interned during WWII would have a good case...but that would be specific individuals.

Over 82,000 were paid reparations under the Civil Liberties Act of 1988.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I believe the Japanese people or their descendants did receive reparations, if they could show they suffered losses because of the internments.

Over 82,000 were paid reparations under the Civil Liberties Act of 1988.

Word

 

[oddity83]

Calm your asses down, we all know this is not going to happen. No need to get your panties in a bunch, for something you know won't happen

We are talking about politics here, nothing is umpossible to a politician during an election year.

 

[cleaver]

Any plausible case evaporated long ago. Who is entitled and who should pay? Deep think that one for a bit, it's not anywhere near as clear cut as anyone would think. For example, do you know how many blacks owned slaves in the South? Far more than you might think. Should their descendants receive reparations? How would you go about weeding them out? Should the descendants of those that immigrated after the Civil War pay reparations? Why? This is a can of worms NO ONE wants to open and a sure prescription for setting race relations back a century if not starting a race war.

The problem with calling out the hucksters is that the various politicos opposed to such a measure are too damn gutless to do so in the hypersensitive atmosphere that has been created around race (and in reality any subject that might smack of insulting a 'victim'). So they ignore the issue before AND after an election while the baiter's merely ignore the issue they brought up after the election.

plausible ish?
it's demonstrable.

the can of worms is a can of worms if you try to parse it into individual offenses to be individually redressed.

can anyone imagine the metrics of some
fill-in-the-blanks government form
to assess the depth of individual grievance
and eventual pay-off?

the clusterfuck of babel in the...
department of idiocy involved in compiling
such a document would collapse
in bureaucratic/political quagmire
before any first lines were scribed.

clearly a ridiculous proposition.

even dave chappelle could spoof the folly of $$$reparations$$$.
you can revisit the clips on your own - they're legend...
and actually - more than any empirical data -
through pure clinical comedic lens
give absolute glimpse into the varied
legacy of the effects of subjugation and its aftermath.

in the end,
does any x-amount of $$$ to any individual
address either the historical significance
or structural/social inequities
that still persist?

making reparations some $$$ amount is...
gordian at best - fatally divisive at worst.
to pander such a thing as a political rally-point
is socially/culturally subversive...
at the very least, intellectually dishonest.

let us erase "the slavery history" from the $equation$.
as a culture - as a society, it has effected all who are its progeny.

we went to civil war - in great part - to abolish slavery.
the future and identity of the nation itself were staked in this struggle.
what greater price to pay?

750,000 lives - many more casualties -
futures and families and histories
forever altered by
the very crucible of the first national reparation.

amendments 13, 14, 15 (and 24)
directly addressed structural disparities
in our constitution
that had enabled various modes of
predominately racial subjugation.
in truth, these fundamental changes are reparations.

slavery was abolished - paid for in blood.
correcting the basic structural disparities enabling slavery - paid for by the mandate of the war's outcome.

did these alone correct the ensuing generational persistence
of cultural/social/political and legal
subjugations of the freed
or their descendants?

it's not difficult to assess that history.
cue jim crow... et al

has that post-war history of multi-faceted subjugation
had a negative effect upon generations of
the descendants?
cue warner, goodman and chaney...
(or...ask your momma's maid)

has their "opportunity" in any real way
been equal to those not so burdened?

before any glib answer, consider a panoply
of federal correctives applied over time
to address just this and its obvious effects...

our federal government rightly assumed "ownership"
of the issues involved at fort sumpter...

then...

from reconstruction to the civil rights act of 1875...
from brown v. board of ed. to little rock and de facto school desegregation in 1957...
executive orders desegregating the military in the 40's to kennedy's establishment of the eeoc - desegregating government employment in 1960...
the civil rights, voting rights acts of 1964/1965 to Johnson's exec order 11246 (attempting to further correct disparity through affirmative action)

i could go on - as our nation has continued to go on -
sometimes with great positive effect...
other times - painfully not so.

the point is, that reparations in structural kind
have been effected in slow, often painful steps
since well before appomattox.

in reality,
the institutional
and structural disparities that
have persisted locally and nationally
have been addressed piecemeal
through constitutional amendment,
legislation,
court order
and executive order
since the end of the civil war.

in reality,
reparation has been a slow structural process
to address the undeniable series of socio-political
structural disparities that have been systematically
erected to keep a race/class in subjugation...

can any of you honestly say that the residual effects
of the post slavery slow step to functional opportunity equality
has reached an "end point"?

looked into a prison lately?
or a ghetto?
the "darkies" fault, right?

the two most predominant symptoms remaining
are in education and wealth.
there are significant corollaries;
access to affordable healthcare being the most obvious.

it's not like these have not been identified,
assessed,
compared to contemporaneous political status quo
and...
when too difficult to stake our very future and identity...

we kick a can.

reparations is not a dollar amount
it's an hour glass
for all to see
and... own.

 

[bellisarius]

plausible ish?
it's demonstrable.

the can of worms is a can of worms if you try to parse it into individual offenses to be individually redressed.

can anyone imagine the metrics of some
fill-in-the-blanks government form
to assess the depth of individual grievance
and eventual pay-off?

the clusterfuck of babel in the...
department of idiocy involved in compiling
such a document would collapse
in bureaucratic/political quagmire
before any first lines were scribed.

clearly a ridiculous proposition.

even dave chappelle could spoof the folly of $$$reparations$$$.
you can revisit the clips on your own - they're legend...
and actually - more than any empirical data -
through pure clinical comedic lens
give absolute glimpse into the varied
legacy of the effects of subjugation and its aftermath.

in the end,
does any x-amount of $$$ to any individual
address either the historical significance
or structural/social inequities
that still persist?

making reparations some $$$ amount is...
gordian at best - fatally divisive at worst.
to pander such a thing as a political rally-point
is socially/culturally subversive...
at the very least, intellectually dishonest.

let us erase "the slavery history" from the $equation$.
as a culture - as a society, it has effected all who are its progeny.

we went to civil war - in great part - to abolish slavery.
the future and identity of the nation itself were staked in this struggle.
what greater price to pay?

750,000 lives - many more casualties -
futures and families and histories
forever altered by
the very crucible of the first national reparation.

amendments 13, 14, 15 (and 24)
directly addressed structural disparities
in our constitution
that had enabled various modes of
predominately racial subjugation.
in truth, these fundamental changes are reparations.

slavery was abolished - paid for in blood.
correcting the basic structural disparities enabling slavery - paid for by the mandate of the war's outcome.

did these alone correct the ensuing generational persistence
of cultural/social/political and legal
subjugations of the freed
or their descendants?

it's not difficult to assess that history.
cue jim crow... et al

has that post-war history of multi-faceted subjugation
had a negative effect upon generations of
the descendants?
cue warner, goodman and chaney...
(or...ask your momma's maid)

has their "opportunity" in any real way
been equal to those not so burdened?

before any glib answer, consider a panoply
of federal correctives applied over time
to address just this and its obvious effects...

our federal government rightly assumed "ownership"
of the issues involved at fort sumpter...

then...

from reconstruction to the civil rights act of 1875...
from brown v. board of ed. to little rock and de facto school desegregation in 1957...
executive orders desegregating the military in the 40's to kennedy's establishment of the eeoc - desegregating government employment in 1960...
the civil rights, voting rights acts of 1964/1965 to Johnson's exec order 11246 (attempting to further correct disparity through affirmative action)

i could go on - as our nation has continued to go on -
sometimes with great positive effect...
other times - painfully not so.

the point is, that reparations in structural kind
have been effected in slow, often painful steps
since well before appomattox.

in reality,
the institutional
and structural disparities that
have persisted locally and nationally
have been addressed piecemeal
through constitutional amendment,
legislation,
court order
and executive order
since the end of the civil war.

in reality,
reparation has been a slow structural process
to address the undeniable series of socio-political
structural disparities that have been systematically
erected to keep a race/class in subjugation...

can any of you honestly say that the residual effects
of the post slavery slow step to functional opportunity equality
has reached an "end point"?

looked into a prison lately?
or a ghetto?
the "darkies" fault, right?

the two most predominant symptoms remaining
are in education and wealth.
there are significant corollaries;
access to affordable healthcare being the most obvious.

it's not like these have not been identified,
assessed,
compared to contemporaneous political status quo
and...
when too difficult to stake our very future and identity...

we kick a can.

reparations is not a dollar amount
it's an hour glass
for all to see
and... own.

The answer. (10 min.)

 

[OldJourno]

So, because some people sold them that werent Americans... the Americans that bought them, killed them, raped them..they should be ignored?

No, I say we punish the American people who bought, killed and raped them.

 

[bellisarius]

No, I say we punish the American people who bought, killed and raped them.

Dig them up and execute them? Novel idea.

 

[cleaver]

The answer. (10 min.)

boot-strap up....?

great.

it's no more answer than any other prescription
to a bunch of ungrateful college pukes...
who could, without generations of structural disparity,
find place in a college classroom...

you have got to face the diagnosis first.

i'm all in to be libertarian about this,
if the starting line isn't structurally skewed by...

never mind.

boot-strap up, "darkies"...
you should be grateful for the miracles
this society provides...

we're focusing on the spics now, anyway.

 

[CandiCame]

Then, by all means, feel free to pay reparations. I’m not down to handing my money so the fucking Democrats for shit. Especially, when they want to give it away to fuckers that feel like they are entitled to what I’ve earned.

Honey, I know you don't want to hear it, but fine- the reparation thing was a scam. This is an intervention. You have GOT to stop buying lighting kits. It is 100 degrees in here and you are so washed out you look like a corpse. Coming from ME. We're taking this money from you to HELP you. You have a problem.

 

[bellisarius]

boot-strap up....?

great.

it's no more answer than any other prescription
to a bunch of ungrateful college pukes...
who could, without generations of structural disparity,
find place in a college classroom...

you have got to face the diagnosis first.

i'm all in to be libertarian about this,
if the starting line isn't structurally skewed by...

never mind.

boot-strap up, "darkies"...
you should be grateful for the miracles
this society provides...

we're focusing on the spics now, anyway.

Really? I thought the 'victims' du jour were the Tans-sexuals. The victim class is changing faster, or rotating faster, than I can keep up. (Or to be frank, give a shit about.)

As far as the ingrates go, they'll going to have to come to their own realization or just wallow in their misery, real or imagined. Me? I could give a shit less about their 'intellectualized', and for the most part self-inflicted, suffering.

I once dated a psychologist who was always telling me how to deal with my family, my life, my job. Her life was a fucking disaster. Her children didn't want anything to do with her, she went from job to job, and was telling me all about how her former lovers dumped her ....................... so I dumped her.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It has occurred to me that, since virtually all the slave owners were Democrats, and it was the same group of people who instituted Jim Crow and performed the lynchings and did all the other things now being decried, the DNC and similar groups should be the ones who pay any reparations that are assessed. Do you think that would be fair.

 

[cleaver]

ok....
the high horse is tired.
to the stables with the nag.

the trannies are good people...
they generally understand the joke of it all.
at least they commit to suffering through the inevitable punch line.

shrinks?
hmmmmm.....

i know i don't need all my fuck ups to be analyzed.
most of my fuck ups do that 'self-evident' dance thingy anyway;
and like teenagers, figure that a couple of 20s can bondo the shit.

a couple of 20s - believe it or not - usually spackle right over almost anything...

now,
self inflicted suffering...

....was that old paint naying?

 

[cleaver]

It has occurred to me that, since virtually all the slave owners were Democrats, and it was the same group of people who instituted Jim Crow and performed the lynchings and did all the other things now being decried, the DNC and similar groups should be the ones who pay any reparations that are assessed. Do you think that would be fair.

dino/rino

it's not like a country club assessment.

 

[Boxlicker101]

dino/rino

it's not like a country club assessment.

Of course not. It would be like a fine or tax assessed.

 

[bellisarius]

ok....
the high horse is tired.
to the stables with the nag.

the trannies are good people...
they generally understand the joke of it all.
at least they commit to suffering through the inevitable punch line.

shrinks?
hmmmmm.....

i know i don't need all my fuck ups to be analyzed.
most of my fuck ups do that 'self-evident' dance thingy anyway;
and like teenagers, figure that a couple of 20s can bondo the shit.

a couple of 20s - believe it or not - usually spackle right over almost anything...

now,
self inflicted suffering...

....was that old paint naying?

It's all about consequences.

 

[cleaver]

Of course not. It would be like a fine or tax assessed.

well, ok.
send the bill.

i got a stack right over there, someplace...

can i pay in cash and sign each of the bank notes
so those people know it's not me who welshed?

fuck!
now i owe the welsh...

so few shekels
so many hands!

oy vey!

 

[cleaver]

It's all about consequences.

ok.

say a consequence is incurred on a city street.

and

an equal consequence is incurred
in a ditch dug long ago paralleling that street,
compounded by the depth of that ditch
and the long pent anger of being kept in that ditch?

oh.
it's all about the consequences...

and the available opportunity to address them.

..... i'm coming, old paint!

 

[bellisarius]

ok.

say a consequence is incurred on a city street.

and

an equal consequence is incurred
in a ditch dug long ago paralleling that street,
compounded by the depth of that ditch
and the long pent anger of being kept in that ditch?

oh.
it's all about the consequences...

and the available opportunity to address them.

..... i'm coming, old paint!

Now you focus on the consequences of decisions, not the decisions that led to consequences.

Obviously I left an opening to exploit there. But that's an inevitability, isn't it? Right up there with the chicken or egg quandary.

Truthfully, I think you're engaged in mental masturbation now. "But what if.....?" That's a game I choose not to play concerning other peoples lives. I'm busy enough playing it with my own.

Individual, get it?