How many here have worked with an editor? How many still do?

[Javahead]

Sorry if this one has been done to death, but I did a quick topic search and it doesn't appear if these questions have been covered recently.

I've always self-edited my stories, then ran them though spell- and style- checkers. But although that can catch most typos, it doesn't help with logic errors, continuity, or just poor phrasing or a limping plot line.

For the spate of archived stories I just finished, I didn't need much input, beyond Laurel's pointing out that I needed adapt one story slightly to conform with Literotica guidelines - I rewrote the offending sections, resubmitted, and all was well. I find this sort of advice ("this doesn't work well for my, and here's why") very useful.

At the same time, judging by the "helpful" comments I've received on posted stories, I've learned that there's a thin line between "this could be done better" and "you should change the whole premise of your story because I don't like the way this story developed". Though I'd hope that volunteer editors would be less prone to this sort of thing, I'm also a subscriber to the TANSTAAFL philosophy - I figure that the closer it is to their own taste (and hence, enjoy the process) the less useful their advice will be.

So - among the more established writers here - who uses editors? Who doesn't? Who tried using editors, but went back to doing without?

I'm not sure I want to, really. But I just finished the first part (12.6 K words - about 4 Literotica pages) of what is outlined as a 3 part story and started work on part 2, and I find that it's just big enough that - for me - that I'm worried about missing a flaw. So I'm willing to try the process - I figure I can probably finish Part 2 and get stuck into Part 3 before I get feedback, and by then I might welcome the change of focus.

No "right" or "wrong" answers here - just soliciting feedback and advice from those who've been through the mill.

 

[NotWise]

So - among the more established writers here - who uses editors? Who doesn't? Who tried using editors, but went back to doing without?

I'm not sure the readers regard me as established, but I'll answer like I am.

I started using an editor after the first 10 stories or so. They were helpful and pointed out some consistent problems in my writing. I stopped using editors because a) they aren't all very good, b) I think I corrected the problems that consistently needed to be fixed, c) the delays got in my way.

That said, if I were to give any of my stories to an editor now, I'd probably still learn more.

If story construction and content is your main concern then consider looking for a beta reader instead of an editor. They turn things around more quickly and give you reader-like reactions (or should). Just as with editors, not all beta readers are helpful, and if you actually need an editor then you won't get what you need.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I self-edit, and for a while had two solid beta readers whose advice I would occasionally take on board but wouldn't tell them . I'm writing longer pieces now, and usually send something when it's done for a final scan for "feel" and to identify whatever tics I've picked up but don't see. But I don't use a "technical" editor - if I don't know the nuts and bolts by now, I never will.

As a rule, trusted input makes a piece better, but if it's not there I can usually depend on my own instincts to make it okay.

 

[Jada59]

I did with my last story. Haven't written anything since.

 

[Phantom300]

I've swung both ways on this so to speak. I've used and editor & I've self-edited. with fairly equal results. (mostly positive comments/reactions)

There are pros and cons to each. it really is your preference.

My latest story has been sent to someone to read over. I feel I can catch most grammar/spelling errors myself, generally when I ask for help it is storyline/continuity I am looking for help on. I find that I tend to read what I see in my head instead of what is actually typed. That's where a second set of eyes comes in handy IMO.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[KeithD]

Most of my stories have been previously published through a publisher and thus have been edited before.

 

[Javahead]

Most of my stories have been previously published through a publisher and thus have been edited before.

Not really an option for most of us, I'm afraid. But a good data point.

The sense I'm getting is that there's a LOT of utility in having trusted beta readers.

For some - especially for longer works - there may be utility in having an editor, but opinions are mixed. Fair summary?

 

[KeithD]

Not really an option for most of us, I'm afraid. But a good data point.

The sense I'm getting is that there's a LOT of utility in having trusted beta readers.

For some - especially for longer works - there may be utility in having an editor, but opinions are mixed. Fair summary?

Beta readers are valuable, yes. I don't think there are too many qualified editors floating around here.

 

[Javahead]

And following on to my own post: when I look at the three posted stories that I think I did the best job on technically, I see a mixed bag - one has a solid 4.7 rating, one a respectable 4.48 - and the one that I think I did the best technical job on (but was intended to have a disquieting ending) is currently sitting at 3.43. While having by far more downloads and more favorite ratings than anything else I've posted.

What's disquieting is that *I* wouldn't favorite the lowest-rated one. It's a story I wrote to get out of my head after it invaded. But, apparently, 34K people read it in the week it's been up, and it got 17 favorites. Yes, my own favorites get a much higher overall rating and a higher percentage of favorites. But they're averaging half the downloads per day. ???

 

[yukonnights]

I've swung both ways on this so to speak. I've used and editor & I've self-edited. with fairly equal results. (mostly positive comments/reactions)

There are pros and cons to each. it really is your preference.

My latest story has been sent to someone to read over. I feel I can catch most grammar/spelling errors myself, generally when I ask for help it is storyline/continuity I am looking for help on. I find that I tend to read what I see in my head instead of what is actually typed. That's where a second set of eyes comes in handy IMO.

Your mileage may vary.

This second pair of eyes is the big one. I have only this year asked/found some folks who will beta-read/edit. It is a huge help, in my opinion.

I've been tending toward longer and more involved stories recently and on at least two attempts got twisted up. I just "felt" they were not satisfying, but couldn't put my finger on why. With some help, it was determined that one of them had a "surprise ending" that I put in to try and build tension/dilemma, but in essence was just a ploy that fell flat—in the end I just trashed the whole thing. Without some real dilemma, it was a long story with a predictable feel good outcome. Trashing it was probably a rash decision...but ideas are cheap.

On another one, same thing—just didn't feel right but couldn't figure out why. On that one an experienced editor worked on it awhile, then suggested the whole thing be reworked into a First Person POV instead of Third Person. I've just finished a redo on that one...all 30,000+ words of it It's back with the editor to see if I hit the mark this time. I feel it does, just have to wait now and see how it sits with someone besides myself.

Oh yeah, another one is a "test" piece I wrote a few thousand words on to try out a Deep Point of View style. This is all new to me, so I had my same friend read a part of it. It was agreed between us, that it's not ready for Prime Time.

For me, I want to find help like this from the same folks rather than forge new relationships with people. I think it takes awhile to learn one another and such. I tend to grow to hate my stories after awhile working and reworking on them. I've abandoned more recently than I've finished. It was one of the above mentioned beta-reader/editor that convinced me to post one I was down on and turned out to be well received. So, I think editors/beta-readers help a lot ~

PS: I've also reciprocated on the beta-read/suggestion exchange.

 

[NotWise]

Not really an option for most of us, I'm afraid. But a good data point.

The sense I'm getting is that there's a LOT of utility in having trusted beta readers.

For some - especially for longer works - there may be utility in having an editor, but opinions are mixed. Fair summary?

As far as the beta reader is concerned, I think that's a fair summary.

New writers probably should take the time and effort to engage an editor and find out where they stand, technically. A lot of writers probably think that their writing is better than it really is. I know I did, and I know I still have problems, but maybe fewer than I used to have.

The readers usually won't say anything unless the problem is egregious -- or the reader is flat wrong.

 

[Privates1stClass]

So - among the more established writers here - who uses editors? Who doesn't? Who tried using editors, but went back to doing without?

A good editor can help you in so many ways--grammar, spelling (even though you have a spell-checker), plot, characters, pacing, finding logical errors, and so on. Problem is, finding that good editor.

My approach has been to contact other authors whose stories I like, then contact them and ask if they'd edit or proofread stories. Some do and some don't. I've been lucky enough to find several other authors who've edited my stories, provided suggested improvements, and gave me support. I've made friends with some of them and edited their stories.

I"m not knocking the Volunteer Editor program here, but you really don't know the volunteer editor's writing/editorial skills. By reading other authors' stories, at least you'll know how well they write. Having a second set of eyes on your story before it's posted can reduce comments like, "Her name was Mary when the story began, now at the end, it's Marleen," or "Human anatomy wouldn't allow the couple in your story to mate that way."

In the end, it's pot luck. I hope you're as lucky as I was to find excellent editors.

 

[AfterDusk]

I think if you're worried about your story by way of continuity and grammar/technical bits, what I would suggest is that when you've finished, you save the file and step away from it for a while. Ideally, a month but at the very least a week. When it is no longer fresh in your brain, open it up and read the entire thing aloud to yourself. Forcing your eyes to read the words will catch most of the remaining errors and help with semantics. I've done this for years and I catch probably 95% of my errors (I'm still fallible though, don't get me wrong).

If you're worried about content, though, then I think you're looking for a beta reader. The problem I see with that is finding the right one, especially one with enough time to be prompt and with the mental fortitude to analyze and explain any errors correctly. I think those are few and far between, though.

 

[SimonDoom]

And following on to my own post: when I look at the three posted stories that I think I did the best job on technically, I see a mixed bag - one has a solid 4.7 rating, one a respectable 4.48 - and the one that I think I did the best technical job on (but was intended to have a disquieting ending) is currently sitting at 3.43. While having by far more downloads and more favorite ratings than anything else I've posted.

What's disquieting is that *I* wouldn't favorite the lowest-rated one. It's a story I wrote to get out of my head after it invaded. But, apparently, 34K people read it in the week it's been up, and it got 17 favorites. Yes, my own favorites get a much higher overall rating and a higher percentage of favorites. But they're averaging half the downloads per day. ???

When evaluating things like number of views, ratings, and favorites, you have to put aside considerations of technical merit and first consider category and subject matter.

Your 3.43 story was published in nonconsent, which is a heavily trafficked category. That accounts for the high views. But it has a cuckoldry element, which accounts for the low score. And it's less than one page, and such stories tend to get somewhat lower scores. Technical merit has little to do with it. The number of favorites means some people really liked it even though some hated it because of the subject matter.

Regarding editors: I haven't used an editor yet but want to. My impression is it's not easy to find a good editor. You can look at the volunteer editor list on your control panel and find someone with the background you like, OR you can find stories that you like and see if the author gives credit to editors, and then contact those editors. I've found the editing forum to be unhelpful in finding an editor.

 

[GroverLang]

Not long after we both began submitting stories another writer and myself got together and initially it was 90% editing and 10% proofreading. With your own work it tends to be you can’t see the wood for the trees. But, after 36 stories between us, it’s now 5% editing and 95% proofreading. Which is as it should be after that many stories.

Any grammar and spelling errors etc. now are ones which would/should be picked up during the final read through when concentrating on the writing not the story. If you haven’t got the story right by then put it in the bin.

The problem is striking up the sort of relationship with a stranger that turns into a proper friendship.

 

[vanmyers86]

Years ago, I heard the prolific (and now deceased) bestseller James Michener speak at a writers conference about the need for everyone to have an editor, in addition to having the self discipline to cut those phrases we all fall in love with, but which don't move the story along. I agree with him, although I would add that not all editors are talented, so you have to be selective.
On this site, I have two writer friends I trust implicitly to read my stories and suggest improvements. Like a lot of others on this thread, I highly recommend cultivating such relationships. It not only makes any given piece of writing better, it helps you develop and/or maintain your skills as a writer and storyteller by having someone with whom to kick around ideas, talk each other off ledges, etc. Creative minds need the stimulation of other creative minds.

 

[Bramblethorn]

So - among the more established writers here - who uses editors? Who doesn't? Who tried using editors, but went back to doing without?

I always use at least one editor. My partner reads pretty much everything I write, and usually I also have one or two Literotica authors look through my stories here. As well as basic technical stuff, they will help me with pointing out areas where my writing is weak or where it might not be saying what I meant for it to say. They help me tell the story I wanted to tell.

IMHO an editor should be somebody who likes the kind of stories you write, so they're able to gauge whether you're achieving what you set out to achieve, but they also need to be willing to say when something doesn't work.

ObGaiman: "When people tell you something’s wrong or doesn’t work for them, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong."

 

[SimonDoom]

ObGaiman: "When people tell you something’s wrong or doesn’t work for them, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong."

I'd never thought of it this way, but I like this. This is a fair description of most of the advice/criticism I've seen, whether of my work or the work of others.

 

[Yesarub]

Tried once

All of my stories are self-edited. I wish that wasn't the case, I know having someone review and edit my stories would be a huge help to me. I always find problems with my writing after it's submitted, despite doing three different levels of self-editing before I post.

I tried getting an editor here once. It didn't work out. After a full month, U hadn't gotten any feedback. I don't blame the editor, only myself. I'm far too impatient to wait that long. The particular piece (Chapter 4 in the Seduce My Husband series) was a DISASTER when I sent it to her. I practically rewrote the entire thing.

If I ever decide to take my writing to the next level (get published), I would certainly get an editor -- and eagerly soak up all their advice. For now, Lit is just something I do for fun.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

I've come to rely on mine

I enjoy my story ideas and have great confidence in them, but one thing I'm TERRIBLE at is self-editing my documents. I just miss things, usually because I know what I meant to say and everything just reads correctly when I shoot by it. I've gotten better at it, I think, but I have found myself a willing editor who goes through my stories before I publish, and corrects my typos, word-repetitions, and little gaffes first. He's been a lifesaver.

No shame in having an editor. I edit other people's documents very well, I'm just no good at editing my own. Whaddya gonna do, right?

It's never a bad thing to have an editor or proof-reader.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I would be utterly lost without my editor. Between me not being a native speaker and my eyesight (or rather lack thereof) I can use all the help I get. He catches the typos which slip past the spell checker and helps me to tighten up all the little things only a native speaker notices, like improper figures of speech and the like. There was a time when he was unavailable and I had to self-edit, but that was a very bad experience for all involved

 

[kittybeaver]

I have a small writing group of three friends (I'm the fourth in the group). We write together, give encouragement and beta-read for each other. We're all very different in our writing styles, but we all have an understanding and appreciation of the others.

My process is to write a first draft, let it sit for a couple months, then revise it on my own before giving it to the group to read.

One member of the group is very good a proof reading and she asks a lot of questions. The more we've worked together the more she challenges me on my word choices, character evolution and plot development. I've come to think of her more and more as my editor (and have encouraged her to pursue it as a career).

What's really important is the level of trust in our relationship. I trust that she likes my work and understands it and isn't trying to manipulate me to write something else. She trusts that I'm not offended when she says something isn't working for her. And she trusts that even if I don't agree with her feedback, I still find it invaluable.

It's come to the point where I don't consider a story complete until she's had the time to interrogate it.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I have a couple of editors I use intermittently- one for stuff being published and one for Literotica and sometimes the twain meets. They’re quite helpful but my problem is I always run out to deadlines which doesn’t leave any time for editing. Like when you submit three minutes before the deadline. Not going to happen.

 

[Javahead]

The feedback so far has been very useful - I’ll try at least a beta reader for the story I’m working on now and see how it goes. Just need to finish part 2 first - one of the things I want feedback on is how well the first two parts set up the story for part 3 where things get a bit over the top. At my current rate of production I hope to have part 2 done this weekend. It’s looking good, if a bit rough so far. I hope I’m not fooling myself - I know I need to polish it, but I’m pretty happy with how it’s shaping up.

Not huge by Chloe’s standards but it looks as if the finished story should be well over 30k words, maybe over 40k. At 18k so far, and not quite at the plots halfway point.

 

[jehoram]

I have worked with editors through publishing houses and found them invaluable for pointing out things that were clear to me, but not to them.

As for what I publish here, I have an arrangement with another writer. I edit her stories, and she edits mine. It's more of a "beta reader" relationship than a professional editor thing. But it seems to work for us, and she catches things that I miss, along with the usual SPAG screw-ups. What I value most is her point of view; being female, she can point out things that I wouldn't be sensitive to, since I lack the experiences that make up a part of her life (and, indeed, that of fifty percent of the population). I've written about that before, so I won't go into it again.