Storyline vs Sex: The Right Balance?

[KeithD]

There's no one effective way of writing anything in fiction/erotica. I'm surprised how often I have to post there isn't one winning formula in writing. There are no valid "one should" or "one must" declarative statements in the writing of fiction.

 

[8letters]

There's no one effective way of writing anything in fiction/erotica. I'm surprised how often I have to post there isn't one winning formula in writing. There are no valid "one should" or "one must" declarative statements in the writing of fiction.

The OP asked for advice. People offered advice. People did not make any declarative statements on how one must write fiction. The battle doesn't always go to the strong or the race to the swift, but it's a damn good way to bet.

I read and write I/T stories, and I'd advise people who want to write I/T stories to not include spanking, bondage and noncon. I don't find those things enjoyable in I/T stories, and I/T stories with those elements in my experience have not done well. If you do decide to include those elements in your I/T story, I'd say don't expect it to be popular. To me, you're better off putting your time into a story that's more likely to be successful.

Well, I'm finishing up an I/T story that has spanking, bondage and noncon, and my beta-readers have loved it. I know I'm taking a risk, but I think those elements work well in this story. Even if my story is successful, I'd still advise authors to not include spanking, bondage and noncon in I/T stories.

 

[KeithD]

The OP asked for advice. People offered advice. People did not make any declarative statements on how one must write fiction.

I don't know where you learned English, but where I learned English, this was a declarative statement: "you should get your readers to want . . ."

And I gave what I consider to be good writing advice based on training and experience: Don't get boxed into "shoulds" and "musts" imposed by anyone else when writing fiction.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't know where you learned English, but where I learned English, this was a declarative statement: "you should get your readers to want . . ."

And I gave what I consider to be good writing advice based on training and experience: Don't get boxed into "shoulds" and "musts" imposed by anyone else when writing fiction.

It's a declarative statement, but that doesn't mean he thinks there's one way to do things. That's completely clear if you look at the statement in context and in light of the other things he's said. That's true of my "should" statements as well. The OP asked for advice. Telling him there's one way to do things isn't helpful, and it isn't true. It also isn't something that anyone on this thread has done. It's also not helpful to just say "Do it the way you want to." He may not know how he wants to do it. He wants advice from others based on their experience.

When I give advice, it's based upon my experience as a writer and on my (I think rather careful) observations about this site, its stories, and its readers. I never pretend it's gospel, or that it's the only way to do things. A reader can do whatever he/she wants to do with it. But I strongly believe no one should feel reluctant to give advice because of the hypothetical risk that someone might interpret their advice as meaning there's only one way to do things. I think this is a phantom risk.

Nobody here is "imposing" anything. People are offering advice based on their perspectives. That's all.

I thought 8Letters' advice that you "should" make your readers want your characters to have sex before they actually have sex was dead on. Sure, you can write a story that goes in the opposite direction. But it's great advice for crafting a story that gets your readers interested in what's happening and what's to come.

 

[KeithD]

It's a declarative statement, but that doesn't mean he thinks there's one way to do things. That's completely clear if you look at the statement in context and in light of the other things he's said. That's true of my "should" statements as well. The OP asked for advice. Telling him there's one way to do things isn't helpful, and it isn't true. It also isn't something that anyone on this thread has done. It's also not helpful to just say "Do it the way you want to." He may not know how he wants to do it. He wants advice from others based on their experience.
.

"Should do" is telling someone to do it that way. Again, I don't know where you learned English, but I learned that "should do" is a directive. In fiction "do it the way you want to" absolutely is better advice that "should do it this way." Effective learning is by way of actually doing it yourself through trial and error and finding your own way. The breakout authors are those who, in fact, broke out from "should do" and found a new way.

 

[KeithD]

I thought 8Letters' advice that you "should" make your readers want your characters to have sex before they actually have sex was dead on. Sure, you can write a story that goes in the opposite direction. But it's great advice for crafting a story that gets your readers interested in what's happening and what's to come.

Incidentally, I say absolutely not to this "should do." A very effective story can be written from characters having sex right off the top and that being the dilemma of the story--the reader only later learning why that's the dilemma and knowing nothing of the characters before they have sex in the story.

 

[8letters]

"Should do" is telling someone to do it that way. Again, I don't know where you learned English, but I learned that "should do" is a directive. In fiction "do it the way you want to" absolutely is better advice that "should do it this way." Effective learning is by way of actually doing it yourself through trial and error and finding your own way. The breakout authors are those who, in fact, broke out from "should do" and found a new way.

I apparently didn't get the super-duper English learning that you got, but I can tell advice from directive by the context.

To me, trial and error is a very inefficient way to learn. Getting advice is a much faster way of learning. Giving advice is also a good way to learn. Not everyone at this site has your god-like writing skills.

 

[Hypoxia]

We can spew 'should', 'must', and 'don't'. They differ.

What we 'don't' do is break the LIT rules.

What we 'must' do here is WRITE. Or draw. paint, or photograph, if working in illustrated smut. But the only mandate I see is to produce. What a creator produces is up to them.

What we 'should' do is produce something that pleases us. Sure, general formulae can be followed to target specific audiences. Incest likes a good motherfucking. IR likes BBCs. Romance likes long foreplay. At a higher level, we can choose from and elaborate on the four or seven or twenty or eightysix basic plotlines. But those are all options, not mandates.

I recall an old Gilbert Shelton cartoon. Wonder Warthog leads a throng of humans dancing naked around a campfire and shouts, "DO WHAT YA WANNA DO!" Do whatever gets you off.

 

[Handley_Page]

I was just curious on people's thoughts about this.
I realize that the majority of people come here to read stories specifically centered on sexual activity.
That is kind of the point.

However, as a writer, I prefer to write stories- that is, stories with a specific plot, defined characters, dialogue, and flow. While sexual activity is featured in most of mine, they are not, for the most part, purely centered only on sex. Rather, the sexual activity is merely a part of the greater plot of the story, to carry it along. (I have also written a couple that are strictly non-erotic sci-fi/"twilight zone" type pieces with no real erotic twist to them at all.)

Should I focus more on pure sex and less on story, plot, details, etc.? On one of my pieces, some people left comments along those lines, and overall I was rather disappointed that the story was not as well received as I would have hoped.

You should write what interests {tantalises?} you as a reader, and not worry about what others think (apart from the usual spelling & grammar).
I think a good story is separate from the sex, unless you're writing a stroker !

If the story works as well without the sex, then the sex is unnecessary.

For Literotica, if there is sex, it should be significant to the plot.

Other than that? Write what you want to.

'ear ear.

 

[AlinaX]

Write what you would want to read, and take all advice with a pinch of salt.

 

[Polyacrylate]

"Should do" is telling someone to do it that way. Again, I don't know where you learned English, but I learned that "should do" is a directive. In fiction "do it the way you want to" absolutely is better advice that "should do it this way." Effective learning is by way of actually doing it yourself through trial and error and finding your own way. The breakout authors are those who, in fact, broke out from "should do" and found a new way.

In my professional experience, the word "should" in an instructive communication is generally recognized as having a different and generally less restrictive connotation than "shall," "must," or "will." As explained to me by someone who writes and reviews standards for OSHA, the word "should" implies a good practice, while any of the words "shall/will/must" imply a formal directive. An industry standard or a detailed contract is going to be light on the word "should" for a reason.

That said, I'm only quibbling here, as I won't argue with your larger point that trial and error, combined with experimentation with the "rules" is the best (and virtually only) way for creative talent to truly develop.

 

[KeithD]

I apparently didn't get the super-duper English learning that you got, but I can tell advice from directive by the context.

To me, trial and error is a very inefficient way to learn. Getting advice is a much faster way of learning. Giving advice is also a good way to learn. Not everyone at this site has your god-like writing skills.

As you will have seen, I rejected your whole "should" idea. Starting with a bang and even confusion (an attention-arresting uncertain dilemma) has been accepted as a good opening as long ago, in my experience, as the first 007 movie--and probably before that and I just didn't notice it at the time. I certainly noticed it then and so did a lot of subsequently rich thriller writers.

I can't forget the primary mantra of professional editing: First, do no harm. Giving limiting advice (or "should/must" directive) where limits actually do not exist in the writing of fiction is doing harm--often harm that limits a writer for years.

 

[CuteSlaveLisa]

I try, I'm not certain how well I succede, to create a certain tempo through what I write. But real life is waves, peaks and lulls. Reality is decidedly linear. But an individual's perception of a reality that existed millenia before they did IMHO resembles ripples on still water.

Almost everything we experience was here before we were, almost all of it will be here when we depart.

Dad was a bit of a gearhead, he taught me a six fires 1-5-3-6-2-4 to stay in balance. To maintain the tempo I wanted I just finished a story thus (1-6 being real chrono time)

3.Couple on vacation enjoying festival.
2.Flashback of trip to get there.
4.Culmination of festivities.
1.Dream (while riding in bus to hotel about origin of festivities.
...Vacationers play roles of people who lived before them,
...A teaser erotic sequence.
6.Next day she watches him enjoying the water and
5.Daydreams about thier passionate evening yesterday.

And yes I liked Pulp Fiction and Catch 22.

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

 

[ChuckWolf]

I think any story on this site should probably be at least 60% geared towards sexual action.

Currently, I'm working on a tale where the main character is in a state of orgasm for almost the entire story.

 

[jaF0]

I think any story on this site should probably be at least 60% geared towards sexual action.

Currently, I'm working on a tale where the main character is in a state of orgasm for almost the entire story.

Completely disagree.


Sounds utterly boring.

 

[Hypoxia]

I try, I'm not certain how well I succede, to create a certain tempo through what I write. But real life is waves, peaks and lulls. Reality is decidedly linear. But an individual's perception of a reality that existed millenia before they did IMHO resembles ripples on still water.

But life don't clickety-clack down a straight line track
It comes together and it comes apart.
--Ferron​

Reality can be linear, with flashbacks and portents for flavor. Storytelling can be kaleidoscopic, a mosaic of shattered fragments pasted into a pattern, or not. Today's reality is punched from yesterday's and a funnel of tomorrow's.

Enough. Balance is like averaging. One foot in boiling water, one foot in ice, and "on average" you're at a comfy temperature. So, write sets of stories with similar balances, some all sex, some with none. Crazy stuff and vanilla stuff. Strokers and chokers. Just be sure you enjoy writing it.

 

[Hypoxia]

I think any story on this site should probably be at least 60% geared towards sexual action.

Many high-rated LIT stories don't follow that ratio whilst many low-rated tales do. Sigh.

Currently, I'm working on a tale where the main character is in a state of orgasm for almost the entire story.

That's fine. Exciting, even. And probably a challenge to pull off. All one stretched orgasm, or a flurry of cums, spread over time and space? Try near-infinite regression: MC is cumming and recalling previous cums where they recalled prior cums going back to the beginning. Or a Groundhog Day scenario where they compare the current orgasm with groaners from the endless past. Or maybe a time warp.

 

[ChuckWolf]

Sounds utterly boring.

We'll see.

 

[KeithD]

Many high-rated LIT stories don't follow that ratio whilst many low-rated tales do. Sigh.

And the reciprocal is true too. (See how I did that?)

 

[jomar]

I’m down with the no rules crowd. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have Chuck Palahniuk and many other brilliant authors.

Story-wise that has a bunch of sex, like others have said, write what you want. Write the story you want to read and it’ll find an audience.

 

[jomar]

I think any story on this site should probably be at least 60% geared towards sexual action.

Why is that?

Currently, I'm working on a tale where the main character is in a state of orgasm for almost the entire story.

I like that balance!

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think any story on this site should probably be at least 60% geared towards sexual action.

Currently, I'm working on a tale where the main character is in a state of orgasm for almost the entire story.

I think you should write what you want to write, and so should everyone else.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think you should write what you want to write, and so should everyone else.

Yeah, this. It's impossible to please everybody, and the sooner we make peace with that the happier we'll be. But in my experience, author enthusiasm goes a long way.

There are authors here who write high-sex stories and are immensely successful. I suspect that's because these authors really love writing those sex scenes and that enthusiasm is infectious.

If I tried to copy that "formula" by adding filler sex to my stories to meet some ratio of sex to plot... I'd expect to fall flat. If it doesn't excite me, if I'm just phoning it in to meet my performance targets, why would I expect readers to enjoy it? Even if they did, how much would that mean to me, getting 5* votes on something that I only wrote out of obligation.

When I started here, I was worried that my stories might not have enough sex in them for the Literotica crowd. But overwhelmingly, I heard from people who appreciated what I was trying to do with them. I know I'm not the only author here who writes relatively low-sex stories and still gets positive feedback for them.

 

[Hypoxia]

And the reciprocal is true too. (See how I did that?)

I believe it's called 'trivial', like +1 = -(-1). I didn't quantify 'many.' Thus 1+1=3 for large enough values of 1. The reciprocal may be true for large enough values of 'true'. Logic is fun. Prove anything.

Does an act of copulation told from a sperm or ova's POV violate the 18 rule?

 

[KeithD]

I believe it's called 'trivial', like +1 = -(-1). I didn't quantify 'many.' Thus 1+1=3 for large enough values of 1. The reciprocal may be true for large enough values of 'true'. Logic is fun. Prove anything.

Does an act of copulation told from a sperm or ova's POV violate the 18 rule?

I wonder why I suddenly have a headache.