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Abortion

Then, by all means, welcome to ground zero of the pro- life movement. Eventually, it’ll make it all the way to the Supreme Court to be challenged. Then, it will fade into the history books when something else arises - like gun control or whatever else is the topic of the day.
 
Kantarii said:
Then, by all means, welcome to ground zero of the pro- life movement. Eventually, it’ll make it all the way to the Supreme Court to be challenged. Then, it will fade into the history books when something else arises - like gun control or whatever else is the topic of the day.
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talk about talking with your dick. of course it fades away for you. a woman's control over her body is nothing but a hot topic for you that scores you points in the pew.
 
pantalaimonlyra said:
I don't know if the supreme court will end up getting involved in these numerous state legislations that have been popping up recently - unsurprisingly in states that do not offer sexual/reproductive education and offer little to no funding for birth control methods, which would help decrease abortion rates. And, for whatever reason, assume that abortions are being had willy-nilly by women with no thought behind a very personal, and often, heart breaking decision.

I have never had an abortion, and I hope to never have to make that choice. But I believe in bodily autonomy of the individual. No one should ever be forced to use their body's resources to keep another person (I don't have a timeline of when I believe cells form into person hood, haven't figured it out) alive if they choose not to do so. I'm not for forced blood or organ donations either - even if the person has died and organs can be harvested. Our bodies are not owned by the government, nor should they ever be legislated.
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Anytime government and politics get involved it complicates the shit out of things. I would think most young girls in trouble need a path to follow not a solution imposed on them. We often times leave the guy ( partner ) out of the conversation which in a lot of cases does extreme damage. Guys can go through some very extreme guilt complexes. Some girls and guys made a mistake and want to approach their delima together even if they can't handle a child at this time in their lives. To force a child to keep a child creates two casualties possibly three. There are solutions out there but not enough of them. We have many redundant systems out there but they operate incoherently. Remove the stigma and coordinate social networks using, government programs, planned parenthood, charities and commercial institutions along with religious institutions would work. Pro lifers going head to head with Pro choice positioning for the moral high ground doesn't help anyone.
 
icanhelp1 said:
Anytime government and politics get involved it complicates the shit out of things.

I would think most young girls in trouble need a path to follow not a solution imposed on them. We often times leave the guy ( partner ) out of the conversation which in a lot of cases does extreme damage. Guys can go through some very extreme guilt complexes. Some girls and guys made a mistake and want to approach their delima together even if they can't handle a child at this time in their lives. To force a child to keep a child creates two casualties possibly three. There are solutions out there but not enough of them. We have many redundant systems out there but they operate incoherently. Remove the stigma and coordinate social networks using, government programs, planned parenthood, charities and commercial institutions along with religious institutions would work.

Pro lifers going head to head with Pro choice positioning for the moral high ground doesn't help anyone.
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HisArpy also brought up some interesting points:


HisArpy said:
It's very simple.

In general, there is no other human medical procedure which the government believes it has the ability to neutralize or mandate completely and totally. Human cloning falls into this category on the basis that it is a ban on the creation of life (forced scientific sterilization). It should be alarmingly noteworthy that such a ban can be reversed at whim.

Closer to the topic, most people on either side of the debate do not realize that once the door is open, it can swing in either direction. To go from "abortion bans" to "mandatory pregnancy" isn't that large of a leap. Especially in times such as these where population numbers are falling.

On the other side of the coin, "free choice abortions for everyone" aren't that far away from forced sterilization of "undesirable" segments of society in order to "promote the general welfare". A $400 procedure (wholesale cost) to eliminate a lifetime of welfare for the individual AND all the subsequent "unwanted descendants" is cheap.

Yes, both positions are extremes. They are made intentionally so in order to illustrate that Government really has no business determining who will procreate or not for the sole purpose of being a contributor to that government's existence. (Or even how many times since mandatory pregnancy can be enforced repeatedly on certain individuals.)

Government should neither fund, nor prohibit, ANY human reproductive decision absent a specific judicial inquiry and finding regarding a specific individual. For the people to allow it to do so on a blanket basis grants the Government full authority over their reproductive abilities. Authority which can be misused without warning at any time.
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neci said:
talk about talking with your dick. of course it fades away for you. a woman's control over her body is nothing but a hot topic for you that scores you points in the pew.
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That’s where you’re wrong. I’m not trying to score points on a religious level. Most of my opinions are based on personal beliefs, not religious beliefs.
 
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julybaby04 said:
..miscarriage and eptopic are not result of human intervention. A baby without a brain will pass away naturally....no human intervention is needed (and it is still a baby)
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Well, that's pretty debatable - there's plenty of evidence that particular actions during pregnancy will increase the risk of miscarriage. Just being 'old' when you get pregnant increases the risk ... are you suggesting only those women who are most likely to carry a pregnancy to term should get pregnant, because the others carry too high a risk of miscarriage?
 
KimGordon67 said:
Well, that's pretty debatable - there's plenty of evidence that particular actions during pregnancy will increase the risk of miscarriage. Just being 'old' when you get pregnant increases the risk ... are you suggesting only those women who are most likely to carry a pregnancy to term should get pregnant, because the others carry too high a risk of miscarriage?
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There are risk for all women that get pregnant, and most older women are being coached by a medical team. Any women who chooses to get pregnant, especially older women, should, if able, consult with their physician about the risk of an older pregnancy before getting pregnant and make a decision based on that risk. The reasons women get pregnant are many. Prostitutes with a drug problem, incest, rape or young women still in school who got caught up in the moment, especially need special attention. Social networks have to have the resources to reach out to these poor souls. People who cast judgment on these women are shallow and irresponsible in their own right, "let he who has never sinned" axiom. These care teams ( my previous post ) could have a very big positive impact on these women. I don't want to oversimplify but instilling self worth and the worth of a fetus and lesson, to the degree that is possible, the stigma attached to an unwanted pregnancy, I think, could elevate a women's self worth and with proper coaching from a care team could treat the whole person, mentally, physically and spiritually and would have a positive impact . We need to make these individual women feel that bringing a baby full term is a blessing not a sin or ostracised from society. Paring a less fortunate couple with an unwanted pregnancy and developing a special bond with each other could be very uplifting for both; all centered around that fetus. I know it sound like pie in the sky but I think if we took the energy we use at bashing each other and focused it on providing and facilitating care which ever way it goes is the way forward. If after all that coaching, the women, for whatever reason, still would prefer an abortion, that choice has to be respected and performed by a qualified doctor and not castigated as a lesser person for her decision, actually done in the privacy of the woman and doctor environment. We can only try to persuade a women to carry full term by throwing all the positives at her and respect the outcome of her decision. This is a very private and personal decision and does not belong on CNN or FOX. Educating our children about abstinence, birth control, sex and how powerful and emotional a sexual relationship truly is and the consequences of having sex. As a culture we have evolved from sex only during marriage to a pretty loose attitude towards sexual relationships. Women are getting married later in life and non married couples live together rather than opting for marriage.
 
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Something interesting to note on the Abortion isssue that probably hasn’t been brought up: population ratios by gender. A simple google search highlights the fact that most all of the States changing their Abortion Laws have higher numbers of women than men in the respected states.

http://digg.com/2017/sex-ratio-america-map

It probably isn’t as big of a factor as age, household income, or other factors.
 
Kantarii said:
Something interesting to note on the Abortion isssue that probably hasn’t been brought up: population ratios by gender. A simple google search highlights the fact that most all of the States changing their Abortion Laws have higher numbers of women than men in the respected states.

http://digg.com/2017/sex-ratio-america-map

It probably isn’t as big of a factor as age, household income, or other factors.
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I'm not sure what that means. I think women in general are split on abortion and any abortion after 14 weeks tips in the favor of pro life. I think the common thread throughout this division is the women's right to choice and I feel that's a valid position. As A pro life advocate to outright ban on abortion is a bridge too far. To appease the far left or the far right will kill any way forward. Convincing a woman to go to full term is what we should be striving for and affording them every benefit to aid in a successful conclusion whatever that may be. For pro life advocates to be unyielding in their belief is fine but when it comes to making laws, as a republic, there is another side.
 
May 14, 2019

News, Politics


Abortion Bill Passed in Icelandic Parliament

The Icelandic parliament passed a bill which legalises
the termination of a pregnancy within the first 22 weeks
regardless of circumstances.

Abortion was previously legal within the same timeframe,
however a person’s decision to terminate a pregnancy
after the 16th week required approval by a committee.

That decision is now solely in the hands of the pregnant person.

The new legislation also applies to minors.

The minor shall be offered information and counselling
on contraception.

Up until 22 weeks, Icelandic law defines termination
of pregnancy as abortion, while after 22 weeks
it is defined as delivery.

Article 13 of the legislation also proposes a change
in terminology used to discuss the topic, suggesting
that þungunarrof (interruption of pregnancy) should
henceforth be used instead of fóstureyðing
(abortion, or literally “fetus extermination”),
stating that the word fóstureyðing
“has been considered a charged word.”

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/abortion-bill-passed-in-icelandic-parliament/

This is what American women struggled and fought for.

Choice!
 
icanhelp1 said:
I'm not sure what that means. I think women in general are split on abortion and any abortion after 14 weeks tips in the favor of pro life. I think the common thread throughout this division is the women's right to choice and I feel that's a valid position. As A pro life advocate to outright ban on abortion is a bridge too far. To appease the far left or the far right will kill any way forward. Convincing a woman to go to full term is what we should be striving for and affording them every benefit to aid in a successful conclusion whatever that may be. For pro life advocates to be unyielding in their belief is fine but when it comes to making laws, as a republic, there is another side.
Click to expand...

One of the main arguments in Georgia’s Heartbeat Law was the law restricted abortion at a point when women supposedly didn’t know they were pregnant. I can see that side of the argument to a point, but if a woman doesn’t already suspect she’s pregnant - why would she go in an abortion clinic in the first place? Rape, incest, unplanned pregnacy, etc. there are a lot of factors to consider. Alabama’s Abortion Law is insane compared to other States’ Abortion Laws. Personally, I don’t think Roe vrs Wade will be overturned in the sense people think. Most likely it will be left to individual States to decide the issue. But stranger things have been known to happen since the Supreme Court can decide not to take on the case. That may happen as well.
 
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julybaby04 said:
A baby in the womb can grow into nothing else than a human being. It will not be a rock, a house, a bird, etc. Even an acorn can grow into nothing else but a tree.
...
This is not even a religious discussion...this is a humanity discussion.
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If you plant an acorn in the ground and then decide to dig it up, you haven't cut down a tree.
 
Kantarii said:
Personally, I don’t think Roe vrs Wade will be overturned in the sense people think. Most likely it will be left to individual States to decide the issue.
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Um. That is literally what overturning Roe v Wade would mean, isn't it?
 
Liar said:
Um. That is literally what overturning Roe v Wade would mean, isn't it?
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Roe v. Wade specifically says the state has a limited interest in the fetus post-viability.

Anti-choice zealots were ecstatic about this at first.....until they realized fetal viability occurred at 23 weeks and 88% of all abortions occurred at 12 weeks or sooner. Hence the need for "fetal heartbeat" pseudoscience to get a much-needed "do over" in front of teh Supremes.
 
 
Kantarii said:
One of the main arguments in Georgia’s Heartbeat Law was the law restricted abortion at a point when women supposedly didn’t know they were pregnant. I can see that side of the argument to a point, but if a woman doesn’t already suspect she’s pregnant - why would she go in an abortion clinic in the first place? Rape, incest, unplanned pregnacy, etc. there are a lot of factors to consider. Alabama’s Abortion Law is insane compared to other States’ Abortion Laws. Personally, I don’t think Roe vrs Wade will be overturned in the sense people think. Most likely it will be left to individual States to decide the issue. But stranger things have been known to happen since the Supreme Court can decide not to take on the case. That may happen as well.
Click to expand...



All of my narratives strongly suggest aligning with a care team when it become an issue, not to race to an abortion clinic. I agree.
 
Kantarii said:
One of the main arguments in Georgia’s Heartbeat Law was the law restricted abortion at a point when women supposedly didn’t know they were pregnant. I can see that side of the argument to a point, but if a woman doesn’t already suspect she’s pregnant - why would she go in an abortion clinic in the first place? Rape, incest, unplanned pregnacy, etc. there are a lot of factors to consider. Alabama’s Abortion Law is insane compared to other States’ Abortion Laws. Personally, I don’t think Roe vrs Wade will be overturned in the sense people think. Most likely it will be left to individual States to decide the issue. But stranger things have been known to happen since the Supreme Court can decide not to take on the case. That may happen as well.
Click to expand...

She wouldn't. That's literally the point.
 
badbabysitter said:
Or to see if she is pregnant... one of the many services PP provides that the Rapepublican party ants to get rid of
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Well, yes, but I wasn't thinking of Planned Parenthood. I don't view them as an "abortion clinic".
 
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