Abortion

[Kantarii]

LOL @ people who believe in god.

LMAO @ people who think they can have a rational discussion about a fairy tale.

It must have been rough growing up in your household.

 

[dolf]

Related

 

[Luk]

Related

This shouldn't surprise anyone. You see how many dumbfuck pro-lifers spew their hate on this very liberal website.

 

[Kantarii]

Dem rep: You can't be a Democrat if you don't support abortion, LGBTQ rights.

https://apple.news/AwCbsF5elTnKHvq3D9OMxrg
Kant

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Excellent--now can you please explain that to the people who want to outlaw gay marriage simply because GOD says it's an abomination?

Unfortunately, abortion is not a "moral" question, it is a legal question:

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973),[1] was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides a fundamental "right to privacy" that protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose whether or not to have an abortion.

Lol at the idiot that cannot follow a logical train of thought. I just explained why moral questions are moral questions separate and apart from any theological mooring.

 

[Kantarii]

This shouldn't surprise anyone. You see how many dumbfuck pro-lifers spew their hate on this very liberal website.

This site also promotes free speech. I guess you only want one side of any given story to be told so long as it’s your side. That way, it must be the truth.

 

[Tigersman]

This shouldn't surprise anyone. You see how many dumbfuck pro-lifers spew their hate on this very liberal website.

There are no pro-lifers. To be a true pro-lifer you would have adopted the baby of a woman who sought an abortion but changed her mind. You would have paid all her medical bills through delivery. You would raise the child with love, but pro-lifers won't do this. All they do is protest.

 

[icanhelp1]

This site also promotes free speech. I guess you only want one side of any given story to be told so long as it’s your side. That way, it must be the truth.

It's more like so they can't lose.

 

[icanhelp1]

Excellent--now can you please explain that to the people who want to outlaw gay marriage simply because GOD says it's an abomination?

Unfortunately, abortion is not a "moral" question, it is a legal question:

Like usual Carnal you're in the wrong thread.

 

[BotanyBoy]

This shouldn't surprise anyone. You see how many dumbfuck pro-lifers spew their hate on this very liberal website.

You can be pro-life and liberal.

If you believe life starts at conception or with a heartbeat, then there is nothing illiberal about advocating for the rights that life should have.

But that concept is a little advanced and you'd have to understand what liberalism actually is to understand that.

 

[DeYaKen]

I know this is essentially a US debate but I thought you might like an outsiders viewpoint. I am old enough to remember the days when abortions were illegal in the UK. The law did not stop them from taking place. What it did do was to force them underground. We had backstreet abortionists operating out of rooms that were far from sterile using items such as knitting needles to cause a miscarriage. Deaths due to sepsis and blood loss were commonplace. You may think that a painful death is justice for aborting a baby but please don't tell me it is because you are pro-life. What about the girl's life?
We now have a situation where a foetus can be aborted in a safe sterile environment, often with no physical interference with the body and no physical damage occurs. We find that preferable, but as I say this is a US problem so i'll butt out from here on.

 

[icanhelp1]

There are no pro-lifers. To be a true pro-lifer you would have adopted the baby of a woman who sought an abortion but changed her mind. You would have paid all her medical bills through delivery. You would raise the child with love, but pro-lifers won't do this. All they do is protest.

Do you and Carnal stumble through life with blinders on. If Planned Parenthood would use their resources to fund child care, prenatal care, paring want-to-be -parents with pregnant women and helping those women get back on their feet again, they would be inundated with donations and funding, maybe more than they would know what to do with. Teaching abstinence in our schools k-12 would be a good start.

Creating laws against abortion is more divisive than helpful right now. I do believe doctors should be held accountable but not nearly as severe as what's on the table right now. Let's not vilify our doctors, that's just stupid. I think tampering down wholesale abortion practices is part of the solution but not all abortions can be eliminated, that's lunacy. Having an abortion is a very personal event and a very personal choice. It's not a one fits all. To pit one side against the other does nothing more than victimize the poor soul that's dealing with the problem. PRO CHOICE, PRO LIFE are slogans and neither solves the problem. Setting unattainable goals or setting the bar out of reach both up and down in the name of a slogan or worse, self righteous indignation with ridiculous laws doesn't solve it either. Unfortunately the pendulum has swung from extreme left to the extreme right and we know from history that doesn't work either. Appropriating funds for these future mothers, creating support programs for them to include educational programs, High school, college tuition and at home tutoring, help minimize as much as possible the major distraction in their life and make carrying full term something beneficial to the mother and potential new parents and to our country

The choice of bringing a child into the world is as complex as there are mothers. All hardships and options should be evaluated as a doctors/patient and support cell relationship. There is a lot of time to make strategic decisions that benefit the mother, fetus and possibly the new parents. The child mother is going through as trematic an experience as can be handled for a youth and should be surrounded by a highly qualified and a caring team with the health of the mother their priority.

The breakdown of family values ( father-mother-child ) is an alarming statistic. Mothers having babies out of wedlock, especially in urban areas, is slowly deteriorating our culture and is putting a strain on our communities in general. A child growing up without a father is a big deficit and I guess aborting that child is a solution but is it the best solution? When we do that are we just addressing and treating the symptom rather than the disease? Educating our children about abstinence, safe sex practice, drug and alcohol addiction, gangs and media platforms ( cell phone and tablet addiction ) and good old fashion family upbringing and discipline needs to be brought back to the forefront of our society. It's the parents responsibility to bring up their children not the school system. Please don't tell me your isolated opinion why this is all wrong, their are a million sides to the problem and we have to have the intestinal fortitude as a nation to take on this huge problem. Educating a young mother as to what abortion is could persuade some from not having one. I know some of you will think this evil, I'm not addressing you, yes that means you ROBBI and BADBABBYSITTER.

This issue could be solved with a comprehensive approach. We are at the lowest birth rate ever in this country.*** Save your open border ideas for a rainy day***. Bringing more children into this country is a good thing. It's a fundamental natural resource that is slowly dwindling. There are many reasons for this delima, too numerous to mention.

We as a society do not want to facilitate black market abortions, that would be tragic. Young girls dying due to improper medical practices brought on by the stigma of pregnancy, suicide also comes to mind. I would even venture the idea of healthcare insurances for couples who can't have children maybe get some financial assistance in adoption, care responsibility, helping with medical cost to bring the baby to full term. My humble opinion.

 

[icanhelp1]

I know this is essentially a US debate but I thought you might like an outsiders viewpoint. I am old enough to remember the days when abortions were illegal in the UK. The law did not stop them from taking place. What it did do was to force them underground. We had backstreet abortionists operating out of rooms that were far from sterile using items such as knitting needles to cause a miscarriage. Deaths due to sepsis and blood loss were commonplace. You may think that a painful death is justice for aborting a baby but please don't tell me it is because you are pro-life. What about the girl's life?
We now have a situation where a foetus can be aborted in a safe sterile environment, often with no physical interference with the body and no physical damage occurs. We find that preferable, but as I say this is a US problem so i'll butt out from here on.

I soooo agree with you!!!!

 

[RobDownSouth]

https://i.imgur.com/9v3TQbe.jpg

 

[Luk]

It's more like so they can't lose.

Lose what?

 

[Liar]

You can be pro-life and liberal.

If you believe life starts at conception or with a heartbeat, then there is nothing illiberal about advocating for the rights that life should have.

But if you believe a cardiac spasm in the fetal cord of an embryo is a heartbeat, there's something illiterate about you.

 

[beew]

The breakdown of family values ( father-mother-child ) is an alarming statistic. Mothers having babies out of wedlock, especially in urban areas, is slowly deteriorating our culture and is putting a strain on our communities in general.

Educating our children about abstinence, safe sex practice, drug and alcohol addiction, gangs and media platforms ( cell phone and tablet addiction ) and good old fashion family upbringing and discipline needs to be brought back to the forefront of our society.

This issue could be solved with a comprehensive approach. We are at the lowest birth rate ever in this country.*** Save your open border ideas for a rainy day***. Bringing more children into this country is a good thing. It's a fundamental natural resource that is slowly dwindling. There are many reasons for this delima, too numerous to mention.

We as a society do not want to facilitate black market abortions, that would be tragic. Young girls dying due to improper medical practices brought on by the stigma of pregnancy, suicide also comes to mind. I would even venture the idea of healthcare insurances for couples who can't have children maybe get some financial assistance in adoption, care responsibility, helping with medical cost to bring the baby to full term. My humble opinion.

Yes, leaving emotions out of it: one can understand why some countries are going down such strange paths:
Europe - through mass imported 'refugees', and America - coerced births.

Central and Southern Europe apparently are doing the worst in terms of birth rates. Followed by the rest of Europe, Russia, North America and Australia.



What's shocking to me, (who grew up in awe of liberal America) is that it's using such a punitive approach.
Perhaps because of the religious element??

Even totalitarian Russia decided to operate through incentives (economic support):
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-billion-to-families-as-russia-nears-election

Other countries who use the baby bonus approach are Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, France, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland and Singapore


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Countries_by_Birth_Rate_in_2017.svg/900px-Countries_by_Birth_Rate_in_2017.svg.png

 

[pantalaimonlyra]

I don't know if the supreme court will end up getting involved in these numerous state legislations that have been popping up recently - unsurprisingly in states that do not offer sexual/reproductive education and offer little to no funding for birth control methods, which would help decrease abortion rates. And, for whatever reason, assume that abortions are being had willy-nilly by women with no thought behind a very personal, and often, heart breaking decision.

I have never had an abortion, and I hope to never have to make that choice. But I believe in bodily autonomy of the individual. No one should ever be forced to use their body's resources to keep another person (I don't have a timeline of when I believe cells form into person hood, haven't figured it out) alive if they choose not to do so. I'm not for forced blood or organ donations either - even if the person has died and organs can be harvested. Our bodies are not owned by the government, nor should they ever be legislated.

 

[RobDownSouth]

This site also promotes free speech. I guess you only want one side of any given story to be told so long as it’s your side. That way, it must be the truth.

"Free Speech" does not guarantee "Freedom From Criticism". Don't feel bad though, you're not the first cross-dressing veteran to fail to understand that important distinction....Spearechucker promoted that novel interpretation of "Free Speech" for several years. And yes, we laughed at his ignorance too.

 

[Luk]

I don't know if the supreme court will end up getting involved in these numerous state legislations that have been popping up recently - unsurprisingly in states that do not offer sexual/reproductive education and offer little to no funding for birth control methods, which would help decrease abortion rates. And, for whatever reason, assume that abortions are being had willy-nilly by women with no thought behind a very personal, and often, heart breaking decision.

I have never had an abortion, and I hope to never have to make that choice. But I believe in bodily autonomy of the individual. No one should ever be forced to use their body's resources to keep another person (I don't have a timeline of when I believe cells form into person hood, haven't figured it out) alive if they choose not to do so. I'm not for forced blood or organ donations either - even if the person has died and organs can be harvested. Our bodies are not owned by the government, nor should they ever be legislated.

I was watching a piece on Vice last night about an Alabama clinic. The nurse had been there for 14 years. She said, matter of factly, that the fetus has no rights until it exits the women's body.

 

[dolf]

I've been present at an abortion. It's not exactly fun and games. Essentially, they induced a miscarriage. Painful, messy, traumatic.
Thing is, the baby was wanted. Very much wanted. But the mother was sick. Nothing they gave her could stop her puking. In the few weeks she was pregnant, she held down almost no food or fluids. They'd admit her to hospital, put her on a drip to rehydrate her, then send her home for a couple of days to dehydrate some more. She had three kids under 10, couldn't cook for them, clean up after them, take them to school. She had preexisting health issues, including a kidney condition and IBS. Her partner, nice but useless, had a job that entailed a lot of traveling and was pretty hopeless around the house when he was there. Her kids were miserable and neglected, she was miserable and suicidal, her health was going downhill fast, the unborn baby would probably have had health problems caused my malnutrition (if it survived at all), and she felt like there was only one way out.
The nurse sticking the pain meds up her arse said that a lot of her patients were there for much the same reason. I read that, before women could be rehydrated by drip, it was the leading cause of death during pregnancy.

So that's my experience with it. Faced with losing her kids, her sanity and her health, she had an abortion and mourns the child that wasn't.

 

[Kantarii]

Democratic Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards prepares to sign restrictive abortion bill.

https://apple.news/Aa0rTXBx3ToerL_DGh98Skw

The next state to join the movement will probably be Maryland.

 

[Kantarii]

"Free Speech" does not guarantee "Freedom From Criticism". Don't feel bad though, you're not the first cross-dressing veteran to fail to understand that important distinction....Spearechucker promoted that novel interpretation of "Free Speech" for several years. And yes, we laughed at his ignorance too.

Oh, is that how it works? Then, by all means STFU...... That was kinda liberating.... I feel better already.

 

[pantalaimonlyra]

I was watching a piece on Vice last night about an Alabama clinic. The nurse had been there for 14 years. She said, matter of factly, that the fetus has no rights until it exits the women's body.

And once rights are granted, there still isn't the right to dictate that another person give of their own body so that the baby may live.

Is anyone here that is against abortion for the idea that the government should tell you when and to whom you should give your organs and blood, whether you want to or not?

 

[butters]

Nor is judging how a society treats its populace at this very moment in time either.

really? if that's not in question right now, why is anyone discussing the 'rights and/or wrongs' of aborting a pregnancy, with the main push of the debate being whether or not the embryo/fetus is considered a live, separate entity and person, ergo a part of - and therefore under the protection of - this same society? this is about as socially relevant as it gets.

I love it when Butters gets pissy.

fuckin' "christian" god-botherers dictating their beliefs and prejudices should rule everyone get right on my flamin' tits.

thing is, i have zero against anyone wanting to pursue their own faith - so long as it hurts no-one else and so long as they keep it personal. as a child, i was force-fed enough christianity to last me a lifetime, and saw plenty of the hypocrisy that walked right with it, hand in hand. anyone, of any faith, worship whoever you damned well want. pray for me if it makes you feel more pious, but do not - do NOT - try to force your beliefs upon my way of life. leave me be, and i'll leave you be to do your thing without fear of persecution. persecution, like in the days of yore when people got truly pissed off with y'alls.