Climate continues to change.

[von_Bismarck]

Unless you're into mass murder (on a scale of billions) I don't see any real alternative.

I think our reliance on energy and high tech is idiotic and will ultimately destroy us, but I see no reason to hasten that destruction by giving up our comforts.

Enjoy the ride while you can. Chances are we'll be dead before the piper demands payment.

This is really fucking stupid. Just sayin'.

 

[Hal9000_]

Unless you're into mass murder (on a scale of billions) I don't see any real alternative.

This is really fucking stupid. Just sayin'.

I guarantee we are going right back to the old addage :

"Humanity has an insignificant effect on the Earth!"

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

and yet, no one seems to care

I know I don't care. It's a hoax. 12 years ago Al Gore said that in 12 years New York would be under water Are they? Now alexandria ocasio-cortez is saying that in 12 years New York will be under water. There is no much evidence to show that it's all a hoax. Faked data by scientists in many cases.

 

[Hal9000_]

I know I don't care. It's a hoax. 12 years ago Al Gore said that in 12 years New York would be under water Are they? Now alexandria ocasio-cortez is saying that in 12 years New York will be under water. There is no much evidence to show that it's all a hoax. Faked data by scientists in many cases.

Ah..

another conspiracy theorist.

 

[gunthernehmen]

What IS
'climate'?

Will it keep my steaks fresh?

If the change is for the colder, yes. While it's still available, anyway.

 

[gunthernehmen]

This is really fucking stupid. Just sayin'.

Sorry, I was insufficiently clear. We'll have died of old age, I meant to say. The piper will be paid long after our time, but he WILL be paid.

 

[phrodeau]

I know I don't care. It's a hoax. 12 years ago Al Gore said that in 12 years New York would be under water Are they? Now alexandria ocasio-cortez is saying that in 12 years New York will be under water. There is no much evidence to show that it's all a hoax. Faked data by scientists in many cases.

I can’t find that quote. Are you sure that’s what he said?

 

[gunthernehmen]

I guarantee we are going right back to the old addage :

"Humanity has an insignificant effect on the Earth!"

Maybe we do. Maybe we don't. I don't know. Sure as hell Phro and von BS don't. I just doubt it really makes any difference which is true.

 

[thør]

Blame the polar bears!

 

[Klinkster]

Don't be ridiculous.
It's not the polar bears. It's polar bear farts.

Blame the polar bears!

 

[jaF0]

Whatever the reasons, there is too much water. Places that don't normally flood have been flooded for days or weeks with no immediate end in sight. Around 40 river gauges in 'Major' flood status.

https://water.weather.gov/ahps/


More heavy rain is forecast for many of those areas.

Many of those areas had record snowfalls, a few in the ranges of 'feet' at a time. 24 inch snowfalls were not uncommon.

 

[trysail]

Possibly the best summary I've ever seen:



Climate Change Misconceived

by Iain Aitken

"...there are many things about climate change that the general public, journalists, academics, environmentalists and politicians may think they ‘know’ to certainly be true that are actually, at the least, highly equivocal (or demonstrably false) and that once these misconceptions are corrected perceptions of the issue are (or, at least, should be) transformed...

...if you do make the effort a very different (far less alarming) picture appears:

1) Global warming and climate change are both unequivocally happening (the latter being reflected in, for example, glacier retreat and sea level rise) but so far both at a rate that is well within the bounds of natural climate variability (and not unprecedented)

2) There are substantial uncertainties about the extent to which human activity (principally in the form of global warming from greenhouse gas emissions and global cooling from aerosol and soot emissions) has contributed to the observed post-industrial global warming and climate change, not least because of the extreme difficulty of separating man-made climate change from the ‘background noise’ of natural climate variability. Nevertheless on the balance of probabilities human activity was responsible for half or more of the global warming observed between 1950 and 2010 (a period of escalating carbon dioxide emissions)

3) Sea levels are rising at a rate of about 7-8 inches per century, a rate that has remained steady despite our escalating carbon dioxide emissions, i.e. the cause is probably predominantly natural. We could globally cease all carbon dioxide emissions overnight and sea levels would continue to rise, an inevitability to which we must adapt

4) There is no remotely compelling scientific evidence that extreme weather events have increased in frequency or intensity in post-industrial times (although the reporting of such events certainly has)

5) There is no remotely compelling scientific evidence that climate change (man-made or otherwise) has resulted in widespread species extinctions (most extinctions have been attributed to habitat loss, over-exploitation, pollution or invasive species)

6) If you remove the (entirely natural) El Niño warming of 2015-16 there has been little statistically significant global warming this century

7) Recently (essentially this century) global warming has been slowing down (while our carbon dioxide emissions have continued to escalate), this illustrating the fact that there is no direct (or linear) correlation between global surface temperatures and carbon dioxide emissions

8) It is impossible to control the Earth’s average surface temperature (on the timescales of decades to centuries) just by controlling our carbon dioxide emissions

9) It is impossible to stop climate change happening – climate change is inherently complex, unpredictable and uncontrollable

10) It is impossible to specify a threshold for global warming beyond which the climatic effects become net-harmful (the 20C goal of the Paris Climate Accord is essentially politically arbitrary)

11) Carbon dioxide is an incombustible, colourless, odourless and tasteless gas that is a very effective plant nutrient. Thanks to our carbon dioxide emissions increasing concentrations in the atmosphere there has been a greening of the Earth that is already equivalent in size to twice the area of the USA and could fundamentally change the Earth’s carbon cycle by adding such a vast carbon sink. Furthermore, as the ‘fuel’ of photosynthesis and the creation of oxygen, it is absolutely essential to the existence of complex life on Earth (which includes us). Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has stated that the idea that carbon dioxide is a dangerous, planet-destroying toxin ‘will be remembered as the greatest mass delusion in the history of the world’

12) Carbon dioxide concentrations in our atmosphere today are about 46% higher than their (280ppm) pre-industrial level (largely because of our emissions) but about four times lower than their average level and at least 10 times lower than their highest level in the history of the Earth (based on paleoclimatology estimates)

13) The global average surface temperature today is about 10C higher than its pre-industrial level but about 60C lower than its average level and at least 130C lower than its highest level in the history of the Earth (based on paleoclimatology estimates)

14) Climate change computer models are proving very unreliable guides to future climate change (in particular they are substantially overestimating warming) – yet it is the most extreme ‘predictions’ of these models that are driving global climate and energy policies

15) The future costs and impacts of decarbonization may well exceed the future costs and impacts of man-made global warming, i.e. even if future man-made global warming becomes net-harmful it may not be cost-effective to mitigate it with decarbonization

16) Based on observational estimates of climate sensitivity (simplistically how much warming you get when you double the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere) on the balance of probabilities further man-made global warming this century is unlikely to exceed 1.50C and its climatic effects might actually be net-beneficial for humans and the environment for many regions of the world [Here I am assuming climate sensitivity not exceeding 20C (based on the best empirical evidence) and ‘business as usual’ emissions trajectories leading to carbon dioxide concentrations not exceeding 700ppm by 2100. Note that by ‘business as usual’ I mean a reasonable extrapolation of economic, population and energy mix trends. This is not to be conflated with recent trends which have roughly tracked the IPCC scenario RCP8.5 (its most extreme emissions scenario, which is virtually impossible to occur)]

17) Climate disruption (e.g. the failure of the Gulf Stream) before the end of this century resulting from man-made global warming is not absolutely impossible but is extremely unlikely

18) A ‘mass extinction event’ before the end of this century resulting from man-made global warming is a virtual impossibility; however a global economic recession/depression resulting from climate policies designed to limit future warming to a half degree Centigrade (and so ostensibly avert such a catastrophe) is a virtual certainty

19) Intermittent wind and solar power is not the solution to any potential future climate change problem (certainly with any foreseeable development of battery technology to ‘plug the intermittency gap’)

20) Climate change science is currently immature, highly disputable and not remotely ‘settled’. This is precisely why many very different interpretations of the science have arisen..."​

​

(lots) more...
​

​

 

[heathergives]

I thought that these things were carbon-free?



http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2012/04/18/1226332/073546-windmill-fire.jpg

 

[von_Bismarck]

Moar Watt's shit.

 

[trysail]

"...climate change has not produced more frequent nor more costly hurricanes nor other weather-related events covered by insurance..."

-Warren E. Buffett
Chairman
Berkshire Hathaway Corporation
Letter To Shareholders
2015 Annual Report
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2015ltr.pdf
February 27, 2016
p. 26​

​

 

[icanhelp1]

Possibly the best summary I've ever seen:



Climate Change Misconceived

by Iain Aitken

"...there are many things about climate change that the general public, journalists, academics, environmentalists and politicians may think they ‘know’ to certainly be true that are actually, at the least, highly equivocal (or demonstrably false) and that once these misconceptions are corrected perceptions of the issue are (or, at least, should be) transformed...

...if you do make the effort a very different (far less alarming) picture appears:

1) Global warming and climate change are both unequivocally happening (the latter being reflected in, for example, glacier retreat and sea level rise) but so far both at a rate that is well within the bounds of natural climate variability (and not unprecedented)

2) There are substantial uncertainties about the extent to which human activity (principally in the form of global warming from greenhouse gas emissions and global cooling from aerosol and soot emissions) has contributed to the observed post-industrial global warming and climate change, not least because of the extreme difficulty of separating man-made climate change from the ‘background noise’ of natural climate variability. Nevertheless on the balance of probabilities human activity was responsible for half or more of the global warming observed between 1950 and 2010 (a period of escalating carbon dioxide emissions)

3) Sea levels are rising at a rate of about 7-8 inches per century, a rate that has remained steady despite our escalating carbon dioxide emissions, i.e. the cause is probably predominantly natural. We could globally cease all carbon dioxide emissions overnight and sea levels would continue to rise, an inevitability to which we must adapt

4) There is no remotely compelling scientific evidence that extreme weather events have increased in frequency or intensity in post-industrial times (although the reporting of such events certainly has)

5) There is no remotely compelling scientific evidence that climate change (man-made or otherwise) has resulted in widespread species extinctions (most extinctions have been attributed to habitat loss, over-exploitation, pollution or invasive species)

6) If you remove the (entirely natural) El Niño warming of 2015-16 there has been little statistically significant global warming this century

7) Recently (essentially this century) global warming has been slowing down (while our carbon dioxide emissions have continued to escalate), this illustrating the fact that there is no direct (or linear) correlation between global surface temperatures and carbon dioxide emissions

8) It is impossible to control the Earth’s average surface temperature (on the timescales of decades to centuries) just by controlling our carbon dioxide emissions

9) It is impossible to stop climate change happening – climate change is inherently complex, unpredictable and uncontrollable

10) It is impossible to specify a threshold for global warming beyond which the climatic effects become net-harmful (the 20C goal of the Paris Climate Accord is essentially politically arbitrary)

11) Carbon dioxide is an incombustible, colourless, odourless and tasteless gas that is a very effective plant nutrient. Thanks to our carbon dioxide emissions increasing concentrations in the atmosphere there has been a greening of the Earth that is already equivalent in size to twice the area of the USA and could fundamentally change the Earth’s carbon cycle by adding such a vast carbon sink. Furthermore, as the ‘fuel’ of photosynthesis and the creation of oxygen, it is absolutely essential to the existence of complex life on Earth (which includes us). Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has stated that the idea that carbon dioxide is a dangerous, planet-destroying toxin ‘will be remembered as the greatest mass delusion in the history of the world’

12) Carbon dioxide concentrations in our atmosphere today are about 46% higher than their (280ppm) pre-industrial level (largely because of our emissions) but about four times lower than their average level and at least 10 times lower than their highest level in the history of the Earth (based on paleoclimatology estimates)

13) The global average surface temperature today is about 10C higher than its pre-industrial level but about 60C lower than its average level and at least 130C lower than its highest level in the history of the Earth (based on paleoclimatology estimates)

14) Climate change computer models are proving very unreliable guides to future climate change (in particular they are substantially overestimating warming) – yet it is the most extreme ‘predictions’ of these models that are driving global climate and energy policies

15) The future costs and impacts of decarbonization may well exceed the future costs and impacts of man-made global warming, i.e. even if future man-made global warming becomes net-harmful it may not be cost-effective to mitigate it with decarbonization

16) Based on observational estimates of climate sensitivity (simplistically how much warming you get when you double the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere) on the balance of probabilities further man-made global warming this century is unlikely to exceed 1.50C and its climatic effects might actually be net-beneficial for humans and the environment for many regions of the world [Here I am assuming climate sensitivity not exceeding 20C (based on the best empirical evidence) and ‘business as usual’ emissions trajectories leading to carbon dioxide concentrations not exceeding 700ppm by 2100. Note that by ‘business as usual’ I mean a reasonable extrapolation of economic, population and energy mix trends. This is not to be conflated with recent trends which have roughly tracked the IPCC scenario RCP8.5 (its most extreme emissions scenario, which is virtually impossible to occur)]

17) Climate disruption (e.g. the failure of the Gulf Stream) before the end of this century resulting from man-made global warming is not absolutely impossible but is extremely unlikely

18) A ‘mass extinction event’ before the end of this century resulting from man-made global warming is a virtual impossibility; however a global economic recession/depression resulting from climate policies designed to limit future warming to a half degree Centigrade (and so ostensibly avert such a catastrophe) is a virtual certainty

19) Intermittent wind and solar power is not the solution to any potential future climate change problem (certainly with any foreseeable development of battery technology to ‘plug the intermittency gap’)

20) Climate change science is currently immature, highly disputable and not remotely ‘settled’. This is precisely why many very different interpretations of the science have arisen..."​

​

(lots) more...
​

​

I read the article and found it very interesting. Anyone who has a science background can appreciate how logical these findings are. I, for the life of me, could not fathom how CO2 was a poisonous gas. To add to his findings, a Greenland glacier is growing.

 

[von_Bismarck]

I read the article and found it very interesting. Anyone that has a science background can appreciate how logical these findings are.

These findings are logical? They're either wrong, without proper context, or completely unsubstantiated.

 

[phrodeau]

#6 states that there has been statistically significant warming.

 

[OldJourno]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/BC1l4geSTP8

 

[icanhelp1]

These findings are logical? They're either wrong, without proper context, or completely unsubstantiated.

Prove that they're not. Gore started in 2006 and since then there's nothing to prove that what is going on is not cyclical. I'm not going to do a "bodysong" and quote chapter after charter of the opposing viewpoints. You do it. I've read opinions on both sides and I don't believe a calamity is around the corner. Some scientific observers believe we should be more concerned about a cooling trend.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Prove that they're not. Gore started in 2006 and since then there nothing to prove that what is going on is not cyclical. I'm not going to do a "bodysong" and quote chapter after charter of the opposing viewpoints. You do it. I've read opinions on both sides and I don't believe a calamity is around the corner. Some scientific observers believe we should be more concerned about a cooling trend.

I'll pass, thanks.

 

[OldJourno]

Whatever the reasons, there is too much water. Places that don't normally flood have been flooded for days or weeks with no immediate end in sight. Around 40 river gauges in 'Major' flood status.

https://water.weather.gov/ahps/


More heavy rain is forecast for many of those areas.

Many of those areas had record snowfalls, a few in the ranges of 'feet' at a time. 24 inch snowfalls were not uncommon.

It's called weather.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Prove that they're not. Gore started in 2006 and since then there nothing to prove that what is going on is not cyclical. I'm not going to do a "bodysong" and quote chapter after charter of the opposing viewpoints. You do it. I've read opinions on both sides and I don't believe a calamity is around the corner. Some scientific observers believe we should be more concerned about a cooling trend.

You hateful denier, you! Why do you hate science and children?

Don't you know that 100% of climate scientists are 99.99% certain they aren't wrong? That's a gold plated standard! Or was it 99.99% of climate scientists are 100% certain they aren't wrong? I don't remember now. Anyway the important thing is they're really, really sure it's getting warmer, never mind the fact that those glaciers are building up again. It's probably due to the thicker air giving more insulation so they stay colder even though it's warmer. Yeah. That's it.

 

[OldJourno]

#6 states that there has been statistically significant warming.

So we have less than 12 years before the final incineration begins?

 

[gunthernehmen]

So we have less than 12 years before the final incineration begins?

We can head that off by following the disciples of the Green New Deal and committing global suicide ROFL