Brexit

[trysail]

The BREXIT Betrayal— A New Political Landscape In Britain And Meet Ze Monsta

by Pointman

"Everybody hates the phrase I told you so. If you say it, you feel like a smartass and if you’re on the receiving end of it you feel like a damn fool. By common consent, it’s usually abbreviated to an exchange of meaningful looks. Don’t say it. I wasn’t going to. About six months ago, I wrote an article called the Brexit betrayal because by then it was obvious what was happening. To anyone left who is still deluded enough to believe the political swamp in Westminster were ever going to allow Brexit to really happen, I’m giving you that look now.

There’s a German folk saying about broken promises that describes exactly what was happening. Ein Tag, einige Tag, bald – NIE! One day, some day, soon – NEVER! The game being played by the Westminster swamp was to say of course the will of the people as expressed in the Brexit referendum would be respected, and then they promptly set about undermining that expressed will of the people. Perfidious Albion at work on its own people.

The ploy of we must obviously make some sort of exit deal with the EU before Brexit could happen was introduced. No such deal was required of course. Then it split into various sub-deals such as a soft Brexit, a hard Brexit and multiple subtle variations so complex that I’m reminded of Lord Palmerston’s remark about the Schleswig-Holstein question. It was so complicated that only three men in Europe had ever really grasped it fully. One was Prince Albert, who was dead, the second was some genius German professor who’d since gone quite insane and the third was his good self, but by now he’d quite forgotten the finer details of it.

This was with the full connivance of an unelected EU bureaucracy who’d play Mister Nasty setting impossible exit conditions and a plucky Theresa May would gamely shuttle back and forth between Westminster and Brussels playing the traitorous part of an honest broker while actually undermining Brexit. Everyone was supposed to be in awe of her sheer gutsy determination to finally bring home a great deal for Britain, which would actually be bolting Britain onto the EU forever. That was her personal political survival strategy. Career first, country second and fuck the will of the people.

They managed to drag it out for nearly three years in the sure and certain expectation that people would get sick and tired of the whole business, they’d make a phoney Brexit deal with the EU that’d effectively keep Britain in the EU and the great Peasants’ Revolt of 2016 would finally have been put down..."
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[butters]

'the will of the people'

people voted after being fed some of the biggest and most obvious lies since before trump; they were lied to, plain and simple. a lot of people now realise that and understand it affected how they voted.

the notion that britain could have just left the e.u without any plan to limit the impact on a nation whose trade-independence was ham-stringed by former governmental action is naive at best.

the british who voted for brexit were largely naive enough to think we could just walk away and still have all the trade benefits that being a part of europe entailed - without any of its drawbacks. the old english way of thinking they can do whatever the hell they like and still come out on top simply because english, in this case - british.

 

[trysail]

The BREXIT Betrayal— A New Political Landscape In Britain And Meet Ze Monsta

by Pointman

"...The next general election will be fought on the Brexit betrayal of the people by the swamp in Westminster and I’ve no doubt given the wave of popular anger and resentment, the Brexit party will do very well, and it will be at the expense of the two old traditional parties.

And if it does, here’s the kicker. Get ready to meet ze monsta – a Prime Minister of the UK called Nigel Farage."
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[Liar]

The BREXIT Betrayal— A New Political Landscape In Britain And Meet Ze Monsta

by Pointman

"...The next general election will be fought on the Brexit betrayal of the people by the swamp in Westminster and I’ve no doubt given the wave of popular anger and resentment, the Brexit party will do very well, and it will be at the expense of the two old traditional parties.

And if it does, here’s the kicker. Get ready to meet ze monsta – a Prime Minister of the UK called Nigel Farage."
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Looking at recent polling, the Brexit Party has so far made most of it's gains by cannibalizing on old UKIP support which has more or less collapsed.

 

[Sean]

a Prime Minister of the UK called Nigel Farage

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha!

Fucker has stood for parliament three times, including in the most leave voting constituency in the country and the fucker couldn't get elected as an MP.

 

[Rightguide]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha!

Fucker has stood for parliament three times, including in the most leave voting constituency in the country and the fucker couldn't get elected as an MP.

We know he believes in self determination for the British people, we know you don't. We know you get all warm inside at the idea of a big vast EU workers collective marching arm in arm towards a new tomorrow.

 

[Sean]

We know he believes in self determination for the British people, we know you don't. We know you get all warm inside at the idea of a big vast EU workers collective marching arm in arm towards a new tomorrow.

Nigel Farage, man of the people. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[Que]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha!

Fucker has stood for parliament three times, including in the most leave voting constituency in the country and the fucker couldn't get elected as an MP.

"Stood for parliament.. ."

You would think with centuries to practice you would learn how to use the English language to form phrases that reflect what it is you are actually trying to convey.

Pomp is far more important to you than meaningful communication.

This is why American Standard English is the language used in English speaking transactions.

 

[HisArpy]

'the will of the people'

people voted after being fed some of the biggest and most obvious lies since before trump; they were lied to, plain and simple. a lot of people now realise that and understand it affected how they voted.

the notion that britain could have just left the e.u without any plan to limit the impact on a nation whose trade-independence was ham-stringed by former governmental action is naive at best.

the british who voted for brexit were largely naive enough to think we could just walk away and still have all the trade benefits that being a part of europe entailed - without any of its drawbacks. the old english way of thinking they can do whatever the hell they like and still come out on top simply because english, in this case - british.

Does any of that matter AFTER the vote is cast? True representatives of the people don't get to call "do over" and ignore what the people voted for.

Look at American Prohibition, for example. There wasn't any hoopla about the government not following the new Constitutional Amendment, they did it because that was what the people wanted and their representatives ratified it.

When, after it was done and over, and it turned out that prohibition was stupid, they passed another Amendment, repealing the first one.

Fast forward to today. Brexit was passed by the voters. Parliment has no other choice except to obey the will of the people. If it turns out they were wrong, then they can have another vote and undo what they wrought if the people decide to reverse course.

Any other form of governing is tyranny. Delaying the implementation of what the voters have decided so that they can try to reverse it so they don't have to obey the people falls into that category.

 

[Sean]

Does any of that matter AFTER the vote is cast? True representatives of the people don't get to call "do over" and ignore what the people voted for.

Look at American Prohibition, for example. There wasn't any hoopla about the government not following the new Constitutional Amendment, they did it because that was what the people wanted and their representatives ratified it.

When, after it was done and over, and it turned out that prohibition was stupid, they passed another Amendment, repealing the first one.

Fast forward to today. Brexit was passed by the voters. Parliment has no other choice except to obey the will of the people. If it turns out they were wrong, then they can have another vote and undo what they wrought if the people decide to reverse course.

Any other form of governing is tyranny. Delaying the implementation of what the voters have decided so that they can try to reverse it so they don't have to obey the people falls into that category.

And what should happen about the Northern Ireland border, Tim?

 

[Que]

And what should happen about the Northern Ireland border, Tim?

Build a wall, naturally.

 

[butters]

"Stood for parliament.. ."

You would think with centuries to practice you would learn how to use the English language to form phrases that reflect what it is you are actually trying to convey.

Pomp is far more important to you than meaningful communication.

This is why American Standard English is the language used in English speaking transactions.

point out just what exactly you believe is wrong with that phrase, in english.


by americans

 

[stickygirl]

point out just what exactly you believe is wrong with that phrase, in english.


by americans

Should say "Standed for parliament"

 

[Sean]

point out just what exactly you believe is wrong with that phrase, in english.


by americans

You'll have to forgive Qbert, he's a moron.

 

[butters]

Should say "Standed for parliament"

hahahahhahahaha

 

[oggbashan]

'the will of the people'

people voted after being fed some of the biggest and most obvious lies since before trump; they were lied to, plain and simple. a lot of people now realise that and understand it affected how they voted.

They were consistently lied to by the EU administrators and UK politicians from the time they voted to join until now. They are still lied to by those pushing remain and a rerun of the referendum - which was the result the EU didn't want. They have a record of asking for a rerun of any popular expression that doesn't suit the EU.

Suggesting that the voters were wrong, naive and misled is just another way of suppressing the democratic process, and the EU is fundamentally undemocratic.

 

[Liar]

They were consistently lied to by the EU administrators and UK politicians from the time they voted to join until now.

Lies such as?

 

[RobDownSouth]

You'll have to forgive Qbert, he's a moron.

The Que-intessential Ugly Murican.
*nods*

 

[bigsly]

They were consistently lied to by the EU administrators and UK politicians from the time they voted to join until now. They are still lied to by those pushing remain and a rerun of the referendum - which was the result the EU didn't want. They have a record of asking for a rerun of any popular expression that doesn't suit the EU.

Suggesting that the voters were wrong, naive and misled is just another way of suppressing the democratic process, and the EU is fundamentally undemocratic.

butter's narrative, as always, is based on how other's should agree with her subjective position(s) and, if they don't, then they're wrong, not her. Natural born, emotional socialists like her - both female and male - should never be allowed anywhere close to the governance of free adults, since they're more into their own utopian feelings than others' actual reality.

 

[oggbashan]

Lies such as?

1. That we were joining a trade partnership not an evolving superstate.

2. That the UK parliament wasn't giving up sovereignty to the EU.

3. That UK courts were paramount and couldn't be overruled by a European court.

4. That UK politicians would change the EU to make it better...

And so on...

 

[SpeareChucker]

They were consistently lied to by the EU administrators and UK politicians from the time they voted to join until now. They are still lied to by those pushing remain and a rerun of the referendum - which was the result the EU didn't want. They have a record of asking for a rerun of any popular expression that doesn't suit the EU.

Suggesting that the voters were wrong, naive and misled is just another way of suppressing the democratic process, and the EU is fundamentally undemocratic.

That's a funny thing here too...

The loudest voices crying for 'democracy' and majority rule
get the angriest when on the losing end of a Democratic vote.

 

[butters]

They were consistently lied to by the EU administrators and UK politicians from the time they voted to join until now. They are still lied to by those pushing remain and a rerun of the referendum - which was the result the EU didn't want. They have a record of asking for a rerun of any popular expression that doesn't suit the EU.

Suggesting that the voters were wrong, naive and misled is just another way of suppressing the democratic process, and the EU is fundamentally undemocratic.

your first, i tacitly agree with.

polls showed people wanting a new referendum but it's been denied as an option

i am not 'suggesting' voters were 'wrong'; it's the voice of voters who have changed their minds (and it goes both ways but most the traffic is driving towards the remain side). it's my personal belief the voters were 'wrong', no suggestion about it, but i fully appreciate the idea and ideals of democracy and the right for people to vote any damned way they please.

i take exception to the idea that it's a case of parliament screwing the public by not being able to reach agreement with the e.u over leave-terms: it was always going to be a huge mess that the country was ill-prepared for and an economic nightmare. no-one really believed the vote would come out the way it did, and look how all the top players ran for the hills as soon as it came in - no-one wanted to be left holding the ball because the ball was covered in shit.

as to the 'naive and misled' point, i only have personal experience and all the reports i've read from multiple sources to base my opinion on. i do not believe ALL voters of 'leave' were naive or misled, and that they have points of view they find valid, even if i personally would disagree with them on those. however, living where i did, where a high number of people voted 'leave', they mostly did so quoting several recurring points:

A: the monies going to the e.u (as touted by the farrage's of this world) would miraculously stop going there and - equally miraculously - would be re-routed directly into the nhs

B: immigration was a huge problem, with all those brown folk taking their jobs and council housing, and that there simply 'wasn't enough room' on this island for more immigrants (of the brown persuasion)

C: the belief that we could leave the e.u and not suffer economically, making trade demands the e.u would have to cede to

if that isn't naive, then perhaps it is plain old-fashioned racist ignorance


back when it was time to join the e.u, i was a lot younger but didn't think it a great idea but knew next to nothing about it. by the time it came to brexit-polls, our capacity to provide for ourselves was greatly diminished - and though there was nothing to stop us from continuing to export and import to keep afloat, trade-wise, it would come at a high price to our economy. IF we had been in a strong manufacturing/producing position we would have been far better placed to leave and call the shots. but we weren't and so we're left with a morass that makes britain look ridiculous and each misstep weakens our bargaining power with the e.u.

 

[oggbashan]

A: the monies going to the e.u (as touted by the farrage's of this world) would miraculously stop going there and - equally miraculously - would be re-routed directly into the nhs

That claim was consistently debunked before the vote took place.

B: immigration was a huge problem, with all those brown folk taking their jobs and council housing, and that there simply 'wasn't enough room' on this island for more immigrants (of the brown persuasion)

Immigration was and is a huge problem but the majority is not from inside the EU. What was seen as a problem with EU migrants was that there was no control whatever and some high profile cases of criminals using the EU's open access to come to the UK freely.

The immigration numbers are and remain a significant problem that successive governments haven't addressed in terms of providing infrastructure such as housing, roads, public transport, and health services to name but a few. In or out of the EU those infrastructure failings still exist and are not being tackled.

C: the belief that we could leave the e.u and not suffer economically, making trade demands the e.u would have to cede to

Anyone aware of the failed negotiations of David Cameron before the referendum vote should have been very clear that the EU would cede nothing (the reasons for that are complex) and should have expected an economic price which has been consistently overstated.

if that isn't naive, then perhaps it is plain old-fashioned racist ignorance

Racist? The impact of leaving the EU wouldn't have much impact on non-EU migration. The 'racist' element relates mainly to non-EU migration but Angela Merkel's open door policy affected some voters. Europe cannot take all of sub-Sahara's population.

back when it was time to join the e.u, i was a lot younger but didn't think it a great idea but knew next to nothing about it. by the time it came to brexit-polls, our capacity to provide for ourselves was greatly diminished - and though there was nothing to stop us from continuing to export and import to keep afloat, trade-wise, it would come at a high price to our economy. IF we had been in a strong manufacturing/producing position we would have been far better placed to leave and call the shots. but we weren't and so we're left with a morass that makes britain look ridiculous and each misstep weakens our bargaining power with the e.u.

What we voted to join was a very different organisation, not what the EU has become. David Cameron demonstrated that we had NO bargaining power inside the EU. If we had, or if the EU had recognised the democratic deficit that the EU has created across Europe, not just in the UK, then perhaps the referendum wouldn't have occurred. The EU's intransigence created this mess.

Once Brexit is settled, one way or another, the EU has significant problems in many other constituent states that they are not addressing. The Eu's biggest fear is that Brexit will lead to other countries wanting to leave as well - unless the EU is drastically reformed. It must be accountable. It isn't.

 

[stickygirl]

That claim was consistently debunked before the vote took place.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2017/06/24/15/gettyimages-576855020.jpg

Love you fella but this makes you wrong, no matter how many denials are now made: this encapsulated the thrust of the Leave campaign. It was based on lies and damned lies from politicians out to make a quick buck and the asshole with the blond thatch that everyone (largely) thinks is a lovable rogue but is like a thinking Trump

 

[oggbashan]

That large image doesn't make me wrong. The message on the bus was ridiculed and challenged by the media at the time. The Leave campaigners shot themselves in the foot with that slogan.

Edited for PS: The massive cost of the UK's contribution to the EU is shown by the size of the divorce bill. That money could pay for many things if it wasn't supporting the EU's money pit.