Are dreams spoilers?

[myothername100]

I have this issue and I don't know if it's just me. Whenever there's a story where there's supposed to be a will-they-won't-they tension and we see one character imagining or dreaming having sex with the other person, it kinda spoils the tension for me. I mean, reading a scene that's supposed be imaginary kinda has the same effect as if were a scene that's actually happening, right? It's not like a movie, where they can light it differently or put a halo around it to make it clear that the dream is different from reality. If you describe someone having sex with someone else, I'll feel like it's happening even if it isn't "really" happening.

Anyone else feel this way?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not me. I've written sex dream sequences with a plot point, and waking from the dream should be a surprise for the reader, as it is for the dreamer. Regarding dreams as spoilers, as you describe, is a bit of a head-scratcher for me.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Dreams are not the problem. The problem you are describing is foreshadowing done badly.

Foreshadowing is very powerful ingredient, and adding too much of it ruins the flavor.

 

[KeithD]

I have this issue and I don't know if it's just me. Whenever there's a story where there's supposed to be a will-they-won't-they tension and we see one character imagining or dreaming having sex with the other person, it kinda spoils the tension for me. I mean, reading a scene that's supposed be imaginary kinda has the same effect as if were a scene that's actually happening, right? It's not like a movie, where they can light it differently or put a halo around it to make it clear that the dream is different from reality. If you describe someone having sex with someone else, I'll feel like it's happening even if it isn't "really" happening.

Anyone else feel this way?

I sometimes include dream sex scenes, where they seem to fit. It's a quick and neat way to convey something desired or feared, setting forth the story dilemma. I usually have actual sex going on in the story too, though.

 

[Hypoxia]

Anyone else feel this way?

Not really, but I suppose it depends on how the dream is framed. Is it anticipation, or wild fantasizing, or implanted from outside, or a substitute for physical sex?

That last would seem weak to me, whether sleeping or a daydream, especially if it's a major plot element. A dream induced from outside can make a creepy story. Anticipation or fantasizing can go masturbatory or tragi-comic or just ad absurdum. Shared dreams could be interesting. But no dreaming of sheep.

 

[ChasingAnna]

It all depends. I've actually got a dream sequence written in a not yet published chapter, but it's more like a nightmare brought in by guilt. I don't feel like it spoils the tension I'm trying to build in the story as it's not really about sex, but more about anxiety concerning loss of control.

 

[SimonDoom]

I agree with the OP to some degree. I don't mind dream sequences if they give a hint of what's to come, but I don't like a dream sequence that is so detailed that it effectively beats the live encounter to the punch. As AwkwardMD says, it's a matter of foreshadowing. Some of it is essential and erotic, but too much spoils the story. I have read stories to which my reaction was the same as the OP's.

 

[KeithD]

That would the author's failure (at least for you) to use dream sequencing effectively, not a reason not to employ dream sequencing in a story.

 

[myothername100]

I was just looking for a catchy title there. Calling it a "spoiler" would be too extreme.

Not me. I've written sex dream sequences with a plot point, and waking from the dream should be a surprise for the reader, as it is for the dreamer. Regarding dreams as spoilers, as you describe, is a bit of a head-scratcher for me.

 

[myothername100]

That's what it is to me also. The detail. If you write dream sex with the same level of detail than "real" sex, then it'll just read like "real" sex. It's honestly not a huge if problem if they at least try not to repeat themselves and add stuff like "she was a lot better than in my dreams" or something. But still, I put it out there because I wonder what authors do to keep the tension intact when including a dream scene.

I agree with the OP to some degree. I don't mind dream sequences if they give a hint of what's to come, but I don't like a dream sequence that is so detailed that it effectively beats the live encounter to the punch. As AwkwardMD says, it's a matter of foreshadowing. Some of it is essential and erotic, but too much spoils the story. I have read stories to which my reaction was the same as the OP's.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But still, I put it out there because I wonder what authors do to keep the tension intact when including a dream scene.

A dream sequence should have a reason, plot-wise, for being there. In my long Arthurian thing, for example, the dreamer has been separated from his half-sister for many years, and she is arriving back in his mind, front and centre, in his dreams, long before he actually sees her again. In this instance, mysticism and the supernatural have already been established as a major theme in the story cycle, so a dream sequence is another manifestation of that (dreams being powerful, mystical things).

Thinking about it, though, your question could apply to any scene in a story - why is it there, what's it's purpose, how does the tension stay intact? Dreams are a key element in anyone's psychological make-up, I would have thought, so why shouldn't they be included if a writer is trying to evoke realistic characters with complex emotions?

I still don't understand the question, to be honest. People dream, dreams can influence behaviour, and dreams can be intensely sexual, so why not write them into a story?

 

[KeithD]

Isn't this just another one of those "depends on how it's handled in the specific story" issue?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Isn't this just another one of those "depends on how it's handled in the specific story" issue?

Yes, I agree, it is. It got me thinking though, how did I write those dream sequences, where they any different to the way I'd write any other scene? The answer is no, they had a place in the plot, they got written, just like any other scene. Did they somehow "cheat" the reader - which seems to be the OP's premise, that a dream is somehow letting readers down - I don't think so (I hope not, anyway).

 

[SimonDoom]

I'll give an example of a story that to me illustrates what the OP is saying. A while ago I read a very long erotic story featuring many erotic relationships, one of which is a mom-son relationship that takes a very long time fully to develop. The tension caused by the slow build is a key part of the story. The author included a dream sequence in which the son dreams about sexual activity with the mom that hasn't happened in real life yet. It was a long scene, and the sex in the dream was drawn out. The scene didn't sit right with me. It wasn't foreshadowing anything, because any reader could see by that point in the story where things were headed eventually. It was just jumping the gun. It's understandable in the story why the son would have such a dream, but to draw it out at such length spoiled things a bit for me, because on the one hand, the dream provided the "payoff" the reader wanted to see eventually, but it wasn't really a payoff. It was unsatisfying.

I have a dream sequence in a mom-son story, but it's a frustration dream, and the son wakes up before anything actually happens. That, to me, makes more sense in the context of this kind of story.

So, yes, in some cases, though certainly not all cases, dreams can be spoilers in an erotic story. As KeithD points out, it all depends on how it's handled (like most things in fiction).

 

[ElectricBlue]

^^^^ Good example, Simon, ta.

A common problem on Lit, then: premature submissions, premature expectations, premature wet dreams (now that's got to be a sad thing, n'est ce pas?). It's the old story, isn't it? Don't do anything until you're good and ready, and that includes plot devices.

Maybe that's why I''ve struggled to see the OP's problem - it's not something I'm ever going to have a problem with, what with me and my stories taking forever to get buttons undone .

 

[NotWise]

I have this issue and I don't know if it's just me. Whenever there's a story where there's supposed to be a will-they-won't-they tension and we see one character imagining or dreaming having sex with the other person, it kinda spoils the tension for me.

How many stories on Lit really have much will-they-won't-they tension? Usually if you really wonder, then the title, tags and/or short description will clear it up. The alternative to "they will eventually" is "they do it with someone else." Stories here are erotica, so "they don't" isn't a common recourse.

In my stories and in most of what I've read, will-they-won't-they isn't part of the tension. When and how might be part of the tension, but most of the tension has to come from other plot elements.

So sure, let them dream on. I don't see that as a spoiler. Maybe like AMD said, it's clumsy foreshadowing.

 

[Hypoxia]

"Write what you know." I don't remember dreams; so I don't really know dreams; so I don't write dreams. Any dreams I might write would be tricks.

* A sleeping target dreams as their manipulator whispers and strokes them.
* Two (or more) share common dreams because magic/drugs/surgery/aliens.
* MC dreams of sex and awakens to evidence of sexual or criminal activity.
* MC telepathically broadcasts their kinky dreams; widespread hilarity ensues.
* MC's hot dreams are constantly disrupted just at climax because whatever.
* MC daydreams a wild sexual encounter just as they're dying, similar to An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge.

I see those as twists, not spoilers.

 

[SimonDoom]

How many stories on Lit really have much will-they-won't-they tension? Usually if you really wonder, then the title, tags and/or short description will clear it up. The alternative to "they will eventually" is "they do it with someone else." Stories here are erotica, so "they don't" isn't a common recourse.

In my stories and in most of what I've read, will-they-won't-they isn't part of the tension. When and how might be part of the tension, but most of the tension has to come from other plot elements.

So sure, let them dream on. I don't see that as a spoiler. Maybe like AMD said, it's clumsy foreshadowing.

Oh, I disagree. The fact that you know, deep down, what's going to happen, doesn't mean you can't enjoy, and indeed expect the appearance of the uncertainty of outcome in the story. In Star Wars, everyone knows the good guys are going to win eventually, but the audience still feelsthe thrill of uncertainty on a scene by scene basis. In an erotic story, you know the two characters will get it on eventually, but you still want resistance, delay, tension, obstacles, etc. These things matter. Otherwise, as an author you'd just have them hop in bed from the get-go. That's no fun, either for the author or for the reader.

 

[NotWise]

Oh, I disagree. The fact that you know, deep down, what's going to happen, doesn't mean you can't enjoy, and indeed expect the appearance of the uncertainty of outcome in the story. In Star Wars, everyone knows the good guys are going to win eventually, but the audience still feelsthe thrill of uncertainty on a scene by scene basis. In an erotic story, you know the two characters will get it on eventually, but you still want resistance, delay, tension, obstacles, etc. These things matter. Otherwise, as an author you'd just have them hop in bed from the get-go. That's no fun, either for the author or for the reader.

These aren't questions about will-they-or-won't-they. They're questions about how it happens and when. A dream probably won't give that away.

 

[myothername100]

Thing is, to me, the tension is not "Will the protagonist get to have sex with the love interest in reality". It's "Will I, the reader, get to experience the protagonist having sex with the love interest". A dream doesn't spoil the first one, but it does spoil the second one. I know I'm supposed to live vicariously through the protagonist, but there's a limit to where I can feel for them. I can't feel the dissatisfaction they have that the sex was only a dream, because from my perspective, there's not a difference.

These aren't questions about will-they-or-won't-they. They're questions about how it happens and when. A dream probably won't give that away.

 

[AwkwardMD]

What you're describing is fucking foreshadowing. When foreshadowing is done right, you can look back at a story and say "Oh yeah, look at all these clues!" When Foreshadowing is done badly, it tells you what is going to happen early the difference between good and bad is microscopically narrow and often subjective to the attentiveness of the reader.

When foreshadowing is done really badly, the story happens too soon. The climax is over before the moment has arrived. The preponderance of really bad foreshadowing is a function of novice writers seeing dream sequences in TV, movies, and books, and not understanding why it worked but wanting to emulate it anyway.