criticism and unfair prejudice.

[Zeb_Carter]

Critics. Some are good, some are bad. As I post stories for free here, I don't expect the critic of the New York Times to leave a comment criticizing my work.

Although I have left a comment for those keyboard professors who are only looking for foibles and typos that were not caught, of...

"What do you expect for free?"

 

[KeithD]

But the main point is that a comment on a story stands on its own merits, and its merits have little to do with WHO is making the comment.

WHOA! A comment has everything to do with who made it and what they know about the issue. The source of the comment is all important. That's the basic problem with comments on Literotica stories. This is an anonymous venue. It's hard to determine the credibility/applicable knowledge of the source of the comment. That doesn't mean that the knowledge of who made the comment, on what strength of knowledge/experience, isn't vitally important.

But, sure, you can look at a comment and realize that it's applicable. That's more based on your understandings and renewed/refocused perspective, though.

 

[jehoram]

I'm not sure "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" does much to burnish Ebert's critical chops. It's a ridiculous movie.

Considering that it's a Russ Meyer movie, I think that they might have been going for ridiculous. And I see it's got a 6.1 rating on IMDB, so it can't suck that much.

 

[jehoram]

There was a critic who, when asked why he could present himself as a film critic when he had no direct experience with the trade, replied "There are those who know the way, but cannot drive the car."

That was Kenneth Tynan, I think. And I remember talking to a filmmaker about that quote, and the filmmaker added, "Sometimes guiding the car pays more than driving it."

 

[redzinger]

Sometimes, if you've identified the fault in your own writing, it's easier to pick it up in others.
The other day, I was conscious of making a comment on another story, but he pm'd me after to clarify and luckily, didn't throw it back at me.

Of course, sometimes you can be totally blind and unable to identify what's wrong, just that there is something not quite right.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm not sure "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" does much to burnish Ebert's critical chops. It's a ridiculous movie.

I haven't seen it, but from what I know of it, you're very likely right. I agree with the basic point, that Ebert's worth as a critic didn't stand on his own experience of film-making; I was just nitpicking a detail about what that experience was.

 

[AwkwardMD]

WHOA! A comment has everything to do with who made it and what they know about the issue. The source of the comment is all important. That's the basic problem with comments on Literotica stories. This is an anonymous venue. It's hard to determine the credibility/applicable knowledge of the source of the comment. That doesn't mean that the knowledge of who made the comment, on what strength of knowledge/experience, isn't vitally important.

But, sure, you can look at a comment and realize that it's applicable. That's more based on your understandings and renewed/refocused perspective, though.

Truth is truth. We put too much stock in identifying ourselves and each other, and we'd all be better off if we could be more honest with ourselves about ourselves, or our art, or our politics, etc. The endemic problem of identifying and discrediting the source of criticism is a huge obstacle to better conversations, understanding, and tolerance.

 

[Bramblethorn]

WHOA! A comment has everything to do with who made it and what they know about the issue. The source of the comment is all important. That's the basic problem with comments on Literotica stories. This is an anonymous venue. It's hard to determine the credibility/applicable knowledge of the source of the comment. That doesn't mean that the knowledge of who made the comment, on what strength of knowledge/experience, isn't vitally important.

But, sure, you can look at a comment and realize that it's applicable. That's more based on your understandings and renewed/refocused perspective, though.

That's true for some kinds of comments. If somebody says "you could be a professional writer", that means a lot more if they're a buyer for a major publisher than if they're some random internet anon who probably has no knowledge about the publishing industry.

But a lot of story comments boil down to things that can be verified independent of the commenter ("you misspelled this word") or simply "I liked/disliked it because of X". As long as it's sincere, that's a crumb of worthwhile knowledge for anybody who wants happy readers.

 

[KeithD]

That's true for some kinds of comments. If somebody says "you could be a professional writer", that means a lot more if they're a buyer for a major publisher than if they're some random internet anon who probably has no knowledge about the publishing industry.

But a lot of story comments boil down to things that can be verified independent of the commenter ("you misspelled this word") or simply "I liked/disliked it because of X". As long as it's sincere, that's a crumb of worthwhile knowledge for anybody who wants happy readers.

I acknowledged that some comments can be verified within the writer's own knowledge and research capabilities. I have taught propaganda analysis for intelligence analysts, however. The source of what you're given (here, a comment) is all-important to the significance and applicability of the comment. And, as I note, sources are mostly anonymous at Literotica, so, going back to OP, whatever you can find on the source of a comment on your story, including whether/how/what the commenter has done themselves here that you can see and review, is important--and is separate from the world of critique where critiquers lay out their credentials for critiquing.

 

[yukonnights]

Seems to me that a big distinction in all of this is what the "Comment" function on the stories is actually intended to be.

Is it for a Comment; : remark, observation, statement, utterance; pronouncement, judgment, reflection, opinion, view.

OR

Is it for a Critique; : analysis, evaluation, assessment, appraisal, appreciation, criticism, review, study, exposition, exegesis.

It says at the end of every story here; 'Leave a comment on this story'. Viewing them all as just comments then, I need not be too concerned with 'qualifications' since that's just what people do on a range of issues. One can agree or disagree since they're just "opinions" or "remarks".

A Critique, on the other hand, is much more technical. One would definitely want to know the qualifications of the person giving the critique. An unqualified person's analysis, assessment and evaluation lacks credibility.

I don't get too worked up on the "comments" left by readers. Most are just offered out of their desire to; 1. Offer a compliment. 2. Tell me how stupid I am. 3. inform me of how fragile they are about some aspect of human sexuality that crumbles their fragile grip on life. 4. On rare occasions they comment on minor technical errors I made....Viewed as comments, I can simply agree or disagree with their opinion. (note: There's no guarantee that I make the right choice.)

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's all a variation on the old quip, "I may not know much about art, but I know what I like," and whoever it was that said, "I recognise obscenity when I see it."

I call it a comment when my reaction is, "Aww, that's nice," or when the delight in hitting the delete button makes me feel superior for a moment; and I call it a critique when my response is, "I may (or may not) like what you say, but I like the way that you say it."

I think most of us would agree that a "critique" - however one defines it - reveals as much (or more) about the critic than it does about the piece being critiqued, and I think most of us can run an IQ parse over the top of it.

 

[Hypoxia]

I'm happy my words provoke readers to comment. A broad audience may spew many varied comments. I accord any comment the attention it deserves. Then I move on.

 

[KeithD]

Seems to me that a big distinction in all of this is what the "Comment" function on the stories is actually intended to be.

Maybe more meaningful, what is done with the comment (the author's function) rather than how it was intended (the reader's/commenter's function)?

 

[SimonDoom]

WHOA! A comment has everything to do with who made it and what they know about the issue. The source of the comment is all important. That's the basic problem with comments on Literotica stories. This is an anonymous venue. It's hard to determine the credibility/applicable knowledge of the source of the comment. That doesn't mean that the knowledge of who made the comment, on what strength of knowledge/experience, isn't vitally important.

But, sure, you can look at a comment and realize that it's applicable. That's more based on your understandings and renewed/refocused perspective, though.

I got a huge WHOA out of you, which is something. That was good for a chuckle.

Source and authority matter sometimes for comments made in this forum. You know a lot about the publishing industry, for instance (I take you at your word), and I don't know squat. So if you say something about the industry and tout your authority, that matters. I'm more inclined to believe you than someone who hasn't published anything. You're knowledgeable about things like style conventions in the publishing industry. Source and experience matter on questions like that.

But that doesn't apply to any of the hundreds of comments I've ever received to any of my stories, that I can think of. If someone critiques me about a plot problem or a character deficiency, or slipups in my prose style, which is usually what the more meaningful criticism involves, it's irrelevant to me whether they've written a story or not. I care about the criticism on its merits. As anyone can see by reading threads in the Feedback forum, good, experienced authors have diametrically opposed opinions about things. If an author is experienced AND wise, then the author can say something intelligent and reveal the grounds for the criticism within its own terms rather than fall back on "believe me because I've written something."

Besides which, being a published Literotica author doesn't mean much. It's not like being a published author "out there", where the fact of publication might indicate some knowledge of publishing standards and industry expectations. Having 20 or more published stories to one's name on Literotica means squat, in my view, in terms of one's authority to criticize.

 

[SimonDoom]

WHOA! A comment has everything to do with who made it and what they know about the issue. The source of the comment is all important. That's the basic problem with comments on Literotica stories. This is an anonymous venue. It's hard to determine the credibility/applicable knowledge of the source of the comment. That doesn't mean that the knowledge of who made the comment, on what strength of knowledge/experience, isn't vitally important.

But, sure, you can look at a comment and realize that it's applicable. That's more based on your understandings and renewed/refocused perspective, though.

I'm genuinely curious about, rather than dismissive of, your comment. I'm trying to think of a situation where what you are saying about a comment made to a Literotica story would be true. I can't think of one. That's a very different issue from posts on threads in this forum or in the Feedback forum where authority and sources might be an issue. I can't think of a single comment I've ever received over the 2+ years I've published stories where knowing whether the author had published stories on Literotica would have made any difference to my appraisal of the merits of the comment.

 

[yukonnights]

Maybe more meaningful, what is done with the comment (the author's function) rather than how it was intended (the reader's/commenter's function)?

Very true.

Like I said before, Viewed as comments, I can simply agree or disagree with their opinion. (note: There's no guarantee that I make the right choice.)

I should add; If I choose to act on the comment, that is on to me. And that loops back to knowing the credentials of the one commenting...or most likely, doing my own research to learn more on whatever was said. Luckily, I've never received a comment that required a decision that was all that important.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Luckily, I've never received a comment that required a decision that was all that important.

Correct. The thought process between, "really, you thought that?" and "delete that clown" is remarkably short.

I don't delete much (I don't seem to attract much junk), and have only regretted deleting one comment, where somebody said, "I don't like that you turned her into a slut." I thought he was having a go at my leading lady, whereas he was actually having a go at me for writing her that way, in his mind; because he also said how gorgeous she was in the first part.

"How dare you," he said, "writing her with two men. She's not like that."

"How dare you," I thought, "thinking she's a slut."

Identifying too closely with fictional characters can be an occupational hazard, it seems .

 

[yukonnights]

Correct. The thought process between, "really, you thought that?" and "delete that clown" is remarkably short.

I don't delete much (I don't seem to attract much junk), and have only regretted deleting one comment, where somebody said, "I don't like that you turned her into a slut."...Identifying too closely with fictional characters can be an occupational hazard, it seems .

As I've mentioned before, I've developed a perverse opinion that my story belongs to me. That includes the responsibility of the comment platform.

Unfortunately, due to the subject matter of some of my stories, what you said about "identifying too closely with fictional characters" is apparently a dangerous problem for some readers...and we who are responsible for their safety.

One busy reader in particular, who is named 'anony-mouse' and visits frequently, seems to truly suffer from this problem. It is clear by his incoherent words that he is upset...it's just not real clear to me exactly why.

Anyway, I worry that it could be dangerous for "his" health, and perhaps his contagion could infect others...so with a small tear threatening to overflow onto my cheek, I delete his carefully crafted cries shouted out against an ever changing world that is obviously overwhelming to him.

But, as hard as it is to hit that destruct button...I have to also consider the millions of other readers who could be infected by his disease...and for the good of mankind, I suffer a small death myself for the good of all.

 

[jehoram]

It's all a variation on the old quip, "I may not know much about art, but I know what I like,"

That same filmmaker I mentioned earlier had a take on that, too. He said, "It should be: 'I may not know much about art, but I like what I know.'"

That's why, IMHO, a lot of otherwise run-of-the-mill erotica gets high scores. The author gave the reader exactly what he wanted to see, a story that the reader has seen before, in a slightly different format.

 

[yukonnights]

That same filmmaker I mentioned earlier had a take on that, too. He said, "It should be: 'I may not know much about art, but I like what I know.'"

That's why, IMHO, a lot of otherwise run-of-the-mill erotica gets high scores. The author gave the reader exactly what he wanted to see, a story that the reader has seen before, in a slightly different format.

Actually, I suspect a majority of the stories posted fall into that description. I know I'm guilty of it. Not that there is no truly unique stories...they're just rare. Part of that is because this is primarily an erotic venue...with the emphasis on the physical, there's only so many ways it can be wrapped. Stories that venture too far off the expected course of the 'tour' risk some blow-back.

 

[oggbashan]

'Twas ever thus...

I've just bought a book published in 1757.

It opened at this passage:

"True it is, that amidst this general Detest of Taste and Learning, there is a Writer, whose Force of Genius. and Excellence of Knowledge, might almost redeem the Character of the Times. But that Superiority, which attracts the Reverence of the Few, excites the Envy and Hatred of the Many: And while his Works are translated and admired Abroad, and Patronised at Home, by those who are most distinguished in Genius, Taste and Learning, himself is abused. and his Friends insulted for his sake, by those who never read his Writings, or, if they did, could neither taste nor comprehend them; While every little aspiring or despairing Scribbler eyes him as CASSIUS did CESAR, and whispers to his Fellow,

Why Man, he doth bestride the narrow World
Like a Colossus; and we petty Men
Walk under his huge Legs; and peep about.
To find ouselves dishonourable Graves.

No wonder then, if the Malice of the Lilliputian Tribe be bent against this dreaded GULLIVER; if they attack him with poisoned arrows, whom they cannot subdue by Strength.

John Brown D.D.

 

[redzinger]

Wow, he was a bit pissed off!

 

[yukonnights]

I've just bought a book published in 1757.

It opened at this passage:

"True it is, that amidst this general Detest of Taste and Learning, there is a Writer, whose Force of Genius. and Excellence of Knowledge, might almost redeem the Character of the Times. But that Superiority, which attracts the Reverence of the Few, excites the Envy and Hatred of the Many: And while his Works are translated and admired Abroad, and Patronised at Home, by those who are most distinguished in Genius, Taste and Learning, himself is abused. and his Friends insulted for his sake, by those who never read his Writings, or, if they did, could neither taste nor comprehend them; While every little aspiring or despairing Scribbler eyes him as CASSIUS did CESAR, and whispers to his Fellow,

Why Man, he doth bestride the narrow World
Like a Colossus; and we petty Men
Walk under his huge Legs; and peep about.
To find ouselves dishonourable Graves.

No wonder then, if the Malice of the Lilliputian Tribe be bent against this dreaded GULLIVER; if they attack him with poisoned arrows, whom they cannot subdue by Strength.

John Brown D.D.

Ogg, If I should be blessed to live so long...I shall write such a tribute to you ~

(or; I could just quote (steal) this and put in Ogg for Gulliver )

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've just bought a book published in 1757.

...

No wonder then, if the Malice of the Lilliputian Tribe be bent against this dreaded GULLIVER; if they attack him with poisoned arrows, whom they cannot subdue by Strength.

John Brown D.D.

Was he writing about Jonathan Swift?

 

[oggbashan]

Was he writing about Jonathan Swift?

Probably - but your guess is as good as mine.