How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[xfrodobagginsx]

http://asset-2.soupcdn.com/asset/14131/3181_2b03.gif

Cute!

 

[phrodeau]

Now I'm imagining Jesus and friends at the Last Supper, breaking bread and drinking from a grail with their feet.

 

[Tryharder62]

Now I'm imagining Jesus and friends at the Last Supper, breaking bread and drinking from a grail with their feet.

Happy Valentine's Day to everyone!. Thanks

 

[RocketLauncher]

Happy Valentine's Day to everyone!. Thanks

Happy Valentine's Day to you as well, pretty lady!

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

A report very recently published has identified 700+ cases in which Southern Baptist Church leaders sexually abused children and women - raping of women/girls and buggering of boys being commonplace.

In the circumstances do you think that these church leaders should be consigned to eternal damnation or should we understand that they were just raping and buggering for Jesus.

1 What will you personally do with respect to these leaders?

2 What will you personally do with respect to their victims?

Thank you.

As far as eternal damnation goes, hopefully they will repent of the evil that they have committed and be forgiven by God. NO ONE says to rape for Jesus. It goes completely against everything that the Bible teaches and you know it. These people are NOT following what Christ taught. Interestingly though, the muslims that rape, murder, steal ARE following what the quran and mohammad taught. Think about that.

IF these charges are true, THEN I believe that these leaders should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and perhaps even more because they are in a trusted position.

What would I do with their victims? Get them help I guess. They should probably be compensated for their suffering. Personally, I have no responsibility for what some sicko calling himself a Christian did to someone else, so I am not sure where you are going with this.

 

[ishtat]

As far as eternal damnation goes, hopefully they will repent of the evil that they have committed and be forgiven by God. NO ONE says to rape for Jesus. It goes completely against everything that the Bible teaches and you know it. These people are NOT following what Christ taught. Interestingly though, the muslims that rape, murder, steal ARE following what the quran and mohammad taught. Think about that.

IF these charges are true, THEN I believe that these leaders should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and perhaps even more because they are in a trusted position.

What would I do with their victims? Get them help I guess. They should probably be compensated for their suffering. Personally, I have no responsibility for what some sicko calling himself a Christian did to someone else, so I am not sure where you are going with this.

I am not going anywhere with it except to hope that, firstly the perpetrators are punished and secondly that the victims get the fullest support possible. On that we agree (a first!)

Repentance and forgiveness is far too easy, I prefer that when they come to cross the Chinvat bridge they get pushed into the fires for a millennium or two. Then Ahura Mazda/Yaweh/Allah might reconsider their repentance.

You really should read the Koran yourself . True it has some pretty violent views and events expressed but then so does the Bible. The Koran is particularly interesting in its view of Jesus as a great prophet - and for that matter the role of his mother Mary.

Islam got many of its ideas from the Jews and the early Christian Ebionites and Circassians . The Christians owe a huge debt to their Jewish forbears from whom they adopted the originally Zoroastrian concepts of individual free will and the notion of a last judgement.

One particularly interesting example is that the Moslems adopted a last judgement concept As Sirat which was a straight copy from the Zoroastrians.
Maybe it would benefit if we studied the connections between religions instead of the differences.

Finally I quote you: "Personally I have no responsibility." Can anyone, Christian, Jew, Moslem or Zoroastrian really say that. Is it not a denial of what we claim to be in a shared society? It seems to me to be a washing of hands worthy of Pilate!

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I am not going anywhere with it except to hope that, firstly the perpetrators are punished and secondly that the victims get the fullest support possible. On that we agree (a first!)

Repentance and forgiveness is far too easy, I prefer that when they come to cross the Chinvat bridge they get pushed into the fires for a millennium or two. Then Ahura Mazda/Yaweh/Allah might reconsider their repentance.

You really should read the Koran yourself . True it has some pretty violent views and events expressed but then so does the Bible. The Koran is particularly interesting in its view of Jesus as a great prophet - and for that matter the role of his mother Mary.

Islam got many of its ideas from the Jews and the early Christian Ebionites and Circassians . The Christians owe a huge debt to their Jewish forbears from whom they adopted the originally Zoroastrian concepts of individual free will and the notion of a last judgement.

One particularly interesting example is that the Moslems adopted a last judgement concept As Sirat which was a straight copy from the Zoroastrians.
Maybe it would benefit if we studied the connections between religions instead of the differences.

Finally I quote you: "Personally I have no responsibility." Can anyone, Christian, Jew, Moslem or Zoroastrian really say that. Is it not a denial of what we claim to be in a shared society? It seems to me to be a washing of hands worthy of Pilate!

Let me tell you WHY islam is a false religion. The Bible was written by the actual eyewitnesses to the events and was completed by 90 AD. It is collaborated by the secular writings of Christ's day and shortly thereafter. The quran was written by some guy named mohammad in 600 AD, some 500 years later. He was not an eyewitness to the events and his account grossly contradicts the actual eyewitness testimony of the Bible and the historians at the time of Christ plus Church history. It's like someone coming along 500 years after George Washington saying that the eyewitnesses and historians of his day all got it wrong and he knows better. Yeah, no. Mohammad was a fraud.

 

[phrodeau]

Let me tell you WHY islam is a false religion. The Bible was written by the actual eyewitnesses to the events and was completed by 90 AD. It is collaborated by the secular writings of Christ's day and shortly thereafter. The quran was written by some guy named mohammad in 600 AD, some 500 years later. He was not an eyewitness to the events and his account grossly contradicts the actual eyewitness testimony of the Bible and the historians at the time of Christ plus Church history. It's like someone coming along 500 years after George Washington saying that the eyewitnesses and historians of his day all got it wrong and he knows better. Yeah, no. Mohammad was a fraud.

Actual eyewitnesses, hm? Try to imagine the huge endeavor this journalist must have had.

Gen 11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Someone had to do some deep research for these claims, not only to establish that the entire world used only one language, but to further establish that languages were confused globally after the event. And imagine how many languages that person would have to learn in order to do that research.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Actual eyewitnesses, hm? Try to imagine the huge endeavor this journalist must have had.

Someone had to do some deep research for these claims, not only to establish that the entire world used only one language, but to further establish that languages were confused globally after the event. And imagine how many languages that person would have to learn in order to do that research.

There was history passed down but also God revealed these things to these people as well for the events that they were't there for.

 

[phrodeau]

There was history passed down but also God revealed these things to these people as well for the events that they were't there for.

Your explanation changes, and the Koran is what God revealed to Mohammed.

 

[ishtat]

Let me tell you WHY islam is a false religion. The Bible was written by the actual eyewitnesses to the events and was completed by 90 AD. It is collaborated ( corroborated?) by the secular writings of Christ's day and shortly thereafter. The quran was written by some guy named mohammad in 600 AD, some 500 years later. He was not an eyewitness to the events and his account grossly contradicts the actual eyewitness testimony of the Bible and the historians at the time of Christ plus Church history. It's like someone coming along 500 years after George Washington saying that the eyewitnesses and historians of his day all got it wrong and he knows better. Yeah, no. Mohammad was a fraud.

That does not remotely even begin to address the points I made. You are clearly driven by your hatred and fear of other religions and have no desire to understand them or their connection with your own. The new Testament was not completed by 90AD, John, Revelation and the pastoral epistles certainly were not. 99% of scholars agree that Paul first letters were first followed by Mark, Matthew and then Luke before the turn of the century.

I'll come back with more when I have time but meanwhile try to control your fear and hatred.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Your explanation changes, and the Koran is what God revealed to Mohammed.

No God didn't reveal anything to that maniac because it grossly contradicts the eyewitness testimony of the Bible. That was a criteria for the New Testament books that they had to be written by an eyewitness.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

That does not remotely even begin to address the points I made. You are clearly driven by your hatred and fear of other religions and have no desire to understand them or their connection with your own. The new Testament was not completed by 90AD, John, Revelation and the pastoral epistles certainly were not. 99% of scholars agree that Paul first letters were first followed by Mark, Matthew and then Luke before the turn of the century.

I'll come back with more when I have time but meanwhile try to control your fear and hatred.

I am not the hater here. Interesting how someone like you can accuse me of being hateful while you are yourself hateful. How ironic. I am not afraid of any religion because they are complete lies. If I were afraid of them as you suggest, I would adhere to them. You must be afraid of them because you seem to revere their lies. Yes the NT was completed by 90 AD. You don't know what you are talking about obviously. Look it up on Wikipedia. They aren't even religious and they will tell you. Most scholars agree that the Bible was completed by 90 AD. The earliest books were written in the late 40s or at least early 50s AD.

Yes come back with more, but next time know what you're talking about.

 

[phrodeau]

No God didn't real anything to that maniac because it grossly contradicts the eyewitness testimony of the Bible. That was a criteria for the New Testament books that they had to be written by an eyewitness.

Jesus was alone when he was tempted by Satan. Who was the eyewitness there?

Jesus was alone at Gethsemane. It's pointed out that everybody else was asleep. Who was the eyewitness there? The incident is in all four Gospels. Were there four eyewitnesses then?

 

[Tryharder62]

Jesus was alone when he was tempted by Satan. Who was the eyewitness there?

Jesus was alone at Gethsemane. It's pointed out that everybody else was asleep. Who was the eyewitness there? The incident is in all four Gospels. Were there four eyewitnesses then?

It is hard to explain to someone who does not believe in the Holy Spirit. It could have happened 4 ways.

1 – That the Holy Spirit revealed to the disciples what Jesus did when he was alone.

2 – That Jesus himself told the disciples what he did when he was alone.

3 – That Jesus revealed what he did when he was alone during his 40-day appearance after his crucifixion (Acts 1:3).

4 – That the information was provided via the Holy Spirit, via Jesus during his Earthly ministry, and during the 40 days in which he appeared and spoke about the Kingdom of God.

Just some scripture that may help:
In John 14:26 it is alleged that the spirit will teach in his name “and will remind you of everything I have said to.” It is also affirmed by the author of 2 Timothy 3:16 that the scripture they are writing is “God breathed,” hence an indication of interaction with God’s spirit. And when Paul wrote to those in Galatia he told them that his teachings came to him “through revelation of Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:12), as well as “revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets” (Ephesians 3:5). This would be the supernatural answer to the question.

 

[phrodeau]

It is hard to explain to someone who does not believe in the Holy Spirit. It could have happened 4 ways.

1 – That the Holy Spirit revealed to the disciples what Jesus did when he was alone.

2 – That Jesus himself told the disciples what he did when he was alone.

3 – That Jesus revealed what he did when he was alone during his 40-day appearance after his crucifixion (Acts 1:3).

4 – That the information was provided via the Holy Spirit, via Jesus during his Earthly ministry, and during the 40 days in which he appeared and spoke about the Kingdom of God.

Just some scripture that may help:
In John 14:26 it is alleged that the spirit will teach in his name “and will remind you of everything I have said to.” It is also affirmed by the author of 2 Timothy 3:16 that the scripture they are writing is “God breathed,” hence an indication of interaction with God’s spirit. And when Paul wrote to those in Galatia he told them that his teachings came to him “through revelation of Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:12), as well as “revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets” (Ephesians 3:5). This would be the supernatural answer to the question.

That's miles away from "eyewitness," and no court of law would accept that testimony.

 

[Tryharder62]

That's miles away from "eyewitness," and no court of law would accept that testimony.

I never claimed the whole bible was written by "eyewitnesses". The gospel record of Jesus' life and teaching in the first four books of the New Testament are written by eyewitnesses. Very important.

Kind of interesting......
https://coldcasechristianity.com/vi...-gospels-demonstrate-their-reliability-video/

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

That's miles away from "eyewitness," and no court of law would accept that testimony.

Absolutely false. Any court of law would accept their testimony and they would conclude that the Bible is true.

 

[phrodeau]

Absolutely false. Any court of law would accept their testimony and they would conclude that the Bible is true.

You've said that before, and you're still just as wrong.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

You've said that before, and you're still just as wrong.

No, actually I am not wrong. The evidence is on my side not yours. The historical writings, the fulfilled prophecies, the archaeological evidence, the scientific evidence is all on the side of the Bible.

 

[phrodeau]

No, actually I am not wrong. The evidence is on my side not yours. The historical writings, the fulfilled prophecies, the archaeological evidence, the scientific evidence is all on the side of the Bible.

Hearsay is not admissible in court, you claim it is, therefore you are wrong.

Archaeological and scientific evidence does not agree with huge sections of the Bible, and most of the Biblical stories are ridiculous.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Hearsay is not admissible in court, you claim it is, therefore you are wrong.

Archaeological and scientific evidence does not agree with huge sections of the Bible, and most of the Biblical stories are ridiculous.

It's not simply hearsay and eyewitness testimony, as is what the Bible is, certainly IS admissible in court, therefore YOU are wrong. And yes archaeological and Scientific evidence also backs up the Biblical stories. God is amazing! Go to the Institute for creation research site and check it out. Tons of evidence. It's your own fault if you choose to turn your head to it and close your eyes and ears and refuse to look into it honestly.

 

[phrodeau]

It's not simply hearsay and eyewitness testimony, as is what the Bible is, certainly IS admissible in court, therefore YOU are wrong. And yes archaeological and Scientific evidence also backs up the Biblical stories. God is amazing! Go to the Institute for creation research site and check it out. Tons of evidence. It's your own fault if you choose to turn your head to it and close your eyes and ears and refuse to look into it honestly.

I’ve been to that site. Their depth of study is very limited. See if you can find anything about the founding of Jericho, a city known to have been inhabited 11,000 years ago. All their articles have to say is that there was a wall in Jericho that fell down once.

Or try a search for Gibeon and the day the Sun stood still. ICR has zilch.

Or examine what they have to say about the population estimates of the Israelites, for which the Bible fluctuates to laughable extremes. There is but one unfavorable review of a work on the topic, and no counter arguments at all.

I’m left with the impression that they simply don’t consider the Bible stories worthy of research.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I’ve been to that site. Their depth of study is very limited. See if you can find anything about the founding of Jericho, a city known to have been inhabited 11,000 years ago. All their articles have to say is that there was a wall in Jericho that fell down once.

Or try a search for Gibeon and the day the Sun stood still. ICR has zilch.

Or examine what they have to say about the population estimates of the Israelites, for which the Bible fluctuates to laughable extremes. There is but one unfavorable review of a work on the topic, and no counter arguments at all.

I’m left with the impression that they simply don’t consider the Bible stories worthy of research.

There is no history past 6000 years ago and no written history over 4500 years. The wall falling down in Jericho is recorded in the Bible. There are other sites that give information on Creation Research. IRC is about evidence for a young earth, not necessarily evidence to support Biblical Stories.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Try Answers in Genesis:

https://answersingenesis.org/creation/