Trump Appeals to Men Who Suffer From ‘Fragile Masculinity’: Psychologists

[BotanyBoy]

Two other people and I told you exactly how/what would happen if ICE was abolished. It's not our fault that you're too dumb to comprehend the words.

They did...you just beat around the bush dodging the question because you can't answer it seriously without looking like a fucking idiot or a Trumpster.

You don't have it in you to come out and state your own ideas, just the popular slogan of the month...sad really.

But you want to run with KO's answer?

That's as close as you'll get to owning up to your own derp? Cool.

That's not abolishing anything, that's re-naming it.....which is fucking pointless and accomplishes NOTHING.

IF that's true and you aren't lying about wanting open borders like so many other (D)'s......what you really want is immigration policy reform, not abolishing ICE.

You don't abolish your police because you don't like the laws, that's beyond moronic which is why you and all the other "Abolish ICE" idiots bought into it.

Good job on kinda owning up to your idiocy this time, even if you needed KO to speak for you to do it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

To be fair, he rarely actually articulates anything that would require "backing up."

This entire concept of backing up and citations amongst these little keyboard gangsters is sociallyretarded. No one in the history of mankind ever provided citations of any sort in your basic social Congress where there is a difference of opinion. People either advance their arguments or they didn't on the merits and strength of their arguments. You didn't have to go and find some other idiot who happens to agree with you so you can cut and paste a citation on to your forehead on a Post-It note in a bar.

They don't give a FUCK about an argument or citation.

They are righteous and anyone else is a Nazi to be dismissed.

They run almost entirely on ad hominem and deflection...occasionally you'll get one who tries a false equivalency.

Point being they are zealots.....like flat Earthers there is NOTHING that will change their mind.

They can't name any white privileges but they insist it's real!!! Like JESUS the Jewish zombie!!


KO is fun because at least he argues with you most the time and will admit his bullshit is bullshit even if he chooses to stand behind it.

Might be misguided with his love for economic oppression but at least he's respectable.

 

[CandiCame]

Wait, Jesus Christ do they also not know what fragile masculinity is? Why does no one know what words mean!?

Fragile Masculinity is a concept wherein your culture's concept of masculinity is tied to your sense of self-identity. Therefore, it is very fragile, because it comes not from internal validation, but from external validation. You're playing a role, not experiencing your own identity.

Gender norms change across and within cultures over rime, so the role that you're playing will eventually NOT be the gender role anymore. This change is inevitable, but if your masculinity is fragile, you will become defensive of these changes, and sometimes lash out in defense of what you think "real" masculinity looks like.

Hell, let's use physical strength as an example, because it is a trait that has changed in social value. It used to be that being strong meant something masculine, that it held social value, because hard labor jobs paid a living wage and could be used to support a family. As the culture changed and we began to financially value intellectual jobs more, the concept of masculinity changed so that physical strength is no longer considered important by the culture. Now the highest paying jobs are in the tech sector. Not the men who fit the "nerd" moniker wear their gaming shirts in public and talk about their D&D games with pride.

People who have fragile masculinity tied to a culture that valued physical strength as a masculine trait HATE that shit. And because they hate it, they last out, using their physical strength as an intimidation tactic. They may say something like, "Look at all these skinny nerd fags with their mohawks and their eyeliner! Back in my day they wouldn't let you work at NASA with a mohawk! We had standards! I could beat the shit out of any of these kids!"

But... meanwhile the guys without toxic masculinity tied to physical strength are just living their lives, content with their gender identity and changing with the culture. They don't stagnate because their gender identity is real, it's not tied to a projection that they have to keep track of. They're not playing a role, they just are men.

Society as a whole tends to see men with fragile masculinity, who, in this example, jump to "I could beat you up" as juvenile and kind of underdeveloped. Because that's the kind of threat a kindergartener would use and doesn't actually make the person threating it unique or particularly strong. Like... the average human male is pretty easy to beat up- it doesn't take a muscle man to do that, a particularly determined dog could beat the shit out of your average human man. That's why people keep guard dogs. It doesn't make you masculine to have that trait, but if your masculinity is fragile, you think it does.

Basically you get these ideas in your head of what "makes" a man, and try to fit those ideas, and that's where your gender identity comes from. If your masculinity isn't fragile, that's not the thought process. The thought process is internal, not external. Someone with a strong masculine gender identity instead thinks, "I am a man, therefore everything I do will be masculine by default. These are my manly pigtails."

I use pigtails as an example, because there are horror stories of my ancestors having their pigtails cut to adhere to a western masculine beauty standard.

But it can be anything. Basically, if you have a strong masculine gender identity, then if someone attacks your gender identity, you can't internalize that attack as easily, because... you're a guy. You can't become not a guy because someone doesn't like your nail polish or your hair cut or your body frame.

But for men with fragile masculinity, you can become not a guy because "man" is not something you are, it's a label that society places on you, that you have to work to obtain, and that can be removed for not ahearing properly to your gender role. This is super stressful for those guys, which is part of the reason why we study it. That stress is bad for you, and it can lead to risk-taking behavior in areas associated with masculinity. One of the biggest problems that we see are men trying to 'prove' their masculinity by getting women to like them and sleep with them. They NEED women's approval of their ability to perform sexually, and they need a LOT of that approval, often from different women, because they just don't have the internal validation that they can get from themselves. So we see people with fragile masculinity are over-represented with multiple partners and at risk for STIs. This, obviously, will become a major problem if you let it. I mean, the violence is too, but this shit can wipe out a whole community with one whore begging for sexual validation from the whole female population. This is actually the study that coined the term, and was used to promote internalized gender identity validity SO YOU COULD LEARN TO KEEP YOUR DISEASED DICK IN YOUR PANTS AND STOP INFECTING EVERYONE.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Gender norms change across and within cultures over rime, so the role that you're playing will eventually NOT be the gender role anymore.

Not true for the vast majority....only in some seriously superficial ways.

This change is inevitable, but if your masculinity is fragile, you will become defensive of these changes, and sometimes lash out in defense of what you think "real" masculinity looks like.

That's why the people peddling your bullshit insist on needing the government to force everyone into it under penalty of law right?

The hetero cis scum aren't the insecure ones.

 

[CandiCame]

Seems as their are is research out there contradicting this study. Weak makes are more likely to be socialist, while stronger males are more likely to be capitalist.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/...alist-strong-men-more-likely-to-be-capitalist

Did... did you read this? It literally proves the point that men with a more fragile masculinity tend to be conservative, and also physically stronger BECAUSE of their more fragile masculinity. Their self-identity is closely aligned to outdated gender roles and the study talks about that.

"The study also posited that a possible alternate explanation might be that people who begin with a belief that strength begets success attempt to achieve success by spending more time in the gym, hypothesizing that "men who were less egalitarian felt more need to go to the gym, unconsciously believing they needed the strength in order to reach a better place in a red-in-tooth-and-claw social hierarchy[,]" according to The Telegraph. "

"“This is about our Stone Age brains, in a modern society,” Price said in an interview with The Times. “Our minds evolved in environments where strength was a big determinant of success. If you find yourself in a body not threatened by other males, if you feel you can win competitions for status, then maybe you start thinking inequality is pretty good.”

“Of course, this isn’t rational in modern environments, where your ability to win might have more to do with where you went to university," Price said. "Lot of guys who are phenomenally successful in modern societies would probably be nowhere near as successful in hunter gatherer societies.”

They're making the point that the fragile masculinity is hurting those guys in all the ways I explained- that they're self-identifying with a concept of masculinity that has changed over time and no longer offers real social value like it used to. Their mindset is harming them, because they're acting as if they're still living in hunter-gatherer societies, not contemporary societies.

 

[Luk]

To be fair, he rarely actually articulates anything that would require "backing up."

This entire concept of backing up and citations amongst these little keyboard gangsters is sociallyretarded. No one in the history of mankind ever provided citations of any sort in your basic social Congress where there is a difference of opinion. People either advance their arguments or they didn't on the merits and strength of their arguments. You didn't have to go and find some other idiot who happens to agree with you so you can cut and paste a citation on to your forehead on a Post-It note in a bar.

If you ever had an original thought, that little cool story bro would have never crossed your mind.

 

[CandiCame]

If you ever had an original thought, that little cool story bro would have never crossed your mind.

Que's said that to me before.

Like... I guess he thinks that people never called bullshit before the internet and that this is something that only my generation does but like... this was LITERALLY the reason Guinness started publishing their world record books. Because when people called bullshit before the internet they'd just drunkenly beat your ass because they presumed you were a liar.

Guinness started collecting data so you could look it up and prevent fights.

Que, since the dawn of human history, people have expected you to back up your assertions, especially if it's someone like you, who frequently just makes WILD claims with little to no provocation that sound like obvious bullshit.

So when people in my generation say, "Citation please"... let me translate it. I believe your generation would say, "Prove it, because it sounds like bullshit."

 

[KimGordon67]

Not just him, but biology....want to guess who's seen as more "masculine"???



The non binary noodly armed guy growing bitch tits from soy soy soy?

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52e8378ae4b047d1a5cccc20/t/591e09c2cd0f6802d57755a0/1495140804230/


Or the still jacked Army Ranger who made a small fortune with his coffee/T shirt company and getting rich on Youtube making videos?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/b6/cb/5cb6cb0af65a00cc1ee10d72ca03d3a5.jpg


Want to guess who's testosterone levels are higher? Not that biology has ANYTHING to do with masculinity or gender....even though part of "transitioning" is hormone therapy which not only changes the physical shape of the brain but how it runs too....

'Hyper masculine' and 'fragile masculinity' are not mutually exclusive states, which is what you're implying, I think ... your argument is muddled, even by GB standards.

 

[CandiCame]

'Hyper masculine' and 'fragile masculinity' are not mutually exclusive states, which is what you're implying, I think ... your argument is muddled, even by GB standards.

So I can't see BBs stuff until you repost it, but this reminds me...

Remember when I was explaining that hormones and the glandular system cause secondary sex characteristics and he was screaming, "NUH UH! IT'S THE CHROMOSOMES! THEY'RE MAGIC!"

So... between then and now he learned that hormones were a thing. I think we should all be really proud of him.

Also, I LOVE me some Ellie Alex! Genderfluid ICON who uses upcycled vintage items that would have gone to the landfill instead of relying on sweatshops. Looking gorgeous, as always.

I know you already explained to him how this is irrelivent to fragile masculinity, I just wanted to tell him I was proud of him.

Also, as a personal favor to me, could someone tell me how to spell "relivent"? I've misspelled it so badly like 4 times today and autocorrect tries to go for "reverent". God, I suck at spelling.

Edit: Also... someone might want to tell these folks who are on this new "soyboy" nonsense that vegan men tend to have more testosterone than omnivores because of the excess estrogen absorbed when you eat factory farmed meat & dairy.

Because unlike they seem to think, hormone levels are highly influenced by environmental factors like diet, nosomuch genetics. If you're trying to regulate your hormones to have higher testosterone and lower estrogen because, say, you're a female suffering from endometreosis, doctors who actually understand how diet affects hormone levels and how biology actually works will tell you to go vegan.

 

[CandiCame]

I'm gonna explain this in the most simple way possible because it seems like people are having a hard time.

If you have EVER, even once in your life felt the need to DEFEND your masculinity, for ANY reason- then you have fragile masculinity.

That's how you tell.

Edit: I wanna Jeff Foxworthy it but idk if I can do it off the top of my head.

If you can't use a pink toothbrush, you might have fragile masculinity.

If you think you ought waterboard somebody because he didn't like your coffee, you might have fragile masculinity.

If you get nervous that you MIGHT get called gay for any reason, you have fragile masculinity.

If your first response to a woman making more money than you is fear that she could up and leave at any minute because you don't wield financial power over her- well, son, you just might have yourself a case of the fragile masculinity.

If you feel insulted by the word "sissy", I'll be damned if you ain't went and caught yourself a bought of the fragile masculinity.

If can't be comfortable around the gays because you're pants-shittingly terrified that you might like getting hit on- well shit son, not only have you developed a touch of the fragile masculinity, you also got a slight case of the queer.

If that last example pissed you right off, you've got a whole heap of the fragile masculinity.

If, at any point, you've considered challenging me, in particular, in a fist fight, on this thread, then son you ain't got no hope. That's done went from fragile to shattered.

If you consider male genderfluid people or transgender ladies "traps"- then you're masculinity is, in fact, a porcelain shepherdess sitting on a cliff two feet from which a coal train frequently runs, just precariously sitting waiting on the earth to shake on the next run through.

 

[BotanyBoy]

'Hyper masculine' and 'fragile masculinity' are not mutually exclusive states, which is what you're implying, I think ...

Didn't say they were....not at all and I can't even comprehend the mental gymnastics it took for you to come up with that. Holy shit.

your argument is muddled, even by GB standards.

That's because you don't want to hear it.

You were too busy trying to make up that shit ^^ to read apparently.

My argument was much the same as previous ones over statements like this one

Nope - you're confusing 'physical strength' with 'masculinity' there.

That ASSUME gender is a social construct ....because PC narrative > biology.

Just keep pretending the brain, estrogen and testosterone aren't actual things.

So I can't see BBs stuff until you repost it, but this reminds me...

Remember when I was explaining that hormones and the glandular system cause secondary sex characteristics and he was screaming, "NUH UH! IT'S THE CHROMOSOMES! THEY'RE MAGIC!"

So... between then and now he learned that hormones were a thing. I think we should all be really proud of him..

I brought up hormones from the get go, like threads ago when you were cowering under your iggy bunker making shit up based upon second hand information and manipulated posts. And I never said "Nuh uh! it's the chromosomes! They're magic" you liar.

You would look a lot less idiotic if you quit hiding behind iggy, actually read my post instead of making shit up.

But you wont because having your views challenged, talking to an actual biologist who might know something about it is fucking TERRIFYING for you.

Because you're drunk on the PC narrative and nothing's stopping that!!

 

[KimGordon67]

Didn't say they were....not at all and I can't even comprehend the mental gymnastics it took for you to come up with that. Holy shit.



That's because you don't want to hear it.

Doesn't matter what I say or how much citation is presented or how carefully crafted and argument is crafted.....you've decided gender has NO connection to biology in any way.

Oh. I see. You're just rehashing an argument I got tired of having, rather than talking about the topic of this thread. It was a bit confusing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Oh. I see. You're just rehashing an argument I got tired of having, rather than talking about the topic of this thread. It was a bit confusing.

You brought it back up when you posted this....

Nope - you're confusing 'physical strength' with 'masculinity' there.

Where you keep pretending testosterone, estrogen and the brain aren't actual things....because gender is a social construct.

Fuck science, gotta maintain that PC narrative.

Because it's essentially the same topic.

Gender.....

You seem to think it's some magical abstract thing in the either....no matter what.

I think it all happens and exists entirely inside the human brain as a process of biochemical functions.

But since you have the POPULAR view, I'll just take my racist biology and fuck off back to Nazi land where I came from.

 

[KimGordon67]

You brought it back up when you posted this....



Where you keep pretending testosterone, estrogen and the brain aren't actual things....because gender is a social construct.

Fuck science, gotta maintain that PC narrative.

Because it's essentially the same topic.

Gender.....

You seem to think it's some magical abstract thing in the either....no matter what.

I think it all happens and exists entirely inside the human brain as a process of biochemical functions.

Only one of us is correct.

Actually I'm pretty sure I said at some point there may be some little bit of biology in the mix. For example, I'm not denying that males simply are physically stronger than females, mostly (although there's obviously a degree of crossover between them). Whether we decided 'physical strength' = 'masculinity' is entirely dependent on the current definition of 'masculinity'. There are definitely versions of hegemonic masculinity that rest of things that have nothing to do with physical strength - financial power, for example.

So there's that. And then there's also the massive social amplification of differences that may exist at a biological level. And the assumption that because something HAS biological foundations, it must be 'right' and 'good'.

And again, this: "...exists entirely inside the human brain as a process of biochemical functions" could be said of absolutely everything that is cultural. So, again, at that level, EVERYTHING is biological ... basically you're just putting up an impenetrable wall, and saying 'culture' doesn't exist because it's invented by human brains, so is inherently biological.

You're just going around in circles. Again. I'm bored of that circle - I said pretty much all I had to say about it last time.

 

[CandiCame]

Oh. I see. You're just rehashing an argument I got tired of having, rather than talking about the topic of this thread. It was a bit confusing.

Yeah, but he did learn a thing since then and I have a right to be proud of him for it.

It's a baby step in the right direction of "accepting actual reality".

 

[BotanyBoy]

Actually I'm pretty sure I said at some point there may be some little bit of biology in the mix.

And totally underplayed/dismissed it because

"Gender is a social construct" is the PC narrative.

Whether we decided 'physical strength' = 'masculinity' is entirely dependent on the current definition of 'masculinity'. There are definitely versions of hegemonic masculinity that rest of things that have nothing to do with physical strength - financial power, for example.

No....at no time has being jacked up and aggressive been considered feminine anywhere that I know of.

Certainly not any popular cultures or societies.

That's because biological factors ....like testosterone are where the drive for all that comes from, and it fuels it too so it's like a positive feedback loop.

Even when women get into it they are considered masculine women.

https://abrilveja.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/esporte-ufc-219-cyborg-30122017-003.jpg?quality=70&strip=info&w=920https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/5a/1d/cb5a1d1216a5662314d224683812b22f.jpg

From fighters to body builders it's admirable, and I got nothing but love for competitive athletic women, but bein' jacked ain't feminine....not anywhere except PC Loonytoonz Land .

And the assumption that because something HAS biological foundations, it must be 'right' and 'good'.

Was NEVER made anywhere but in your head.

And again, this: "...exists entirely inside the human brain as a process of biochemical functions" could be said of absolutely everything that is cultural. So, again, at that level, EVERYTHING is biological

Yes...that's can't separate the two all black and white like the PC narrative tells you to.

... basically you're just putting up an impenetrable wall, and saying 'culture' doesn't exist because it's invented by human brains, so is inherently biological.

I never said anything of the sort. When you say "Basically you're just" that's you coming up with shit I didn't say.

I said gender isn't entirely cultural and you can't totally separate it from the biological factors.

I know I know....that's racist. You can make up some more shit I never said now, I'm going to bed.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yeah, but he did learn a thing since then and I have a right to be proud of him for it.

It's a baby step in the right direction of "accepting actual reality".

I learned about hormones back when I was becoming an actual biologist. You have nothing to be proud of....nothing has changed despite your lies.

And I brought them up at the beginning of the whole gender conversation before you did.

You'd know that if you came out of your "I'm scared of having my views challenged" bunker .

 

[BaritoneTele]

Yeah, but he did learn a thing since then and I have a right to be proud of him for it.

It's a baby step in the right direction of "accepting actual reality".

You claimed you couldn't sex people by their chromosomes.....woops....someone failed HS biology.

You don't get to lecture others about actual reality.

I learned about hormones back when I was becoming an actual biologist. You have nothing to be proud of because nothing has changed since the discussion began.

And I brought them up at the beginning of the whole gender conversation, before you did.

You'd know that if you came out of your "I'm scared of having my views challenged because different view points are offensive...WAAHHHHHHH" bunker.

 

[CandiCame]

You claimed you couldn't sex people by their chromosomes.....woops....someone failed HS biology.

You don't get to lecture others about actual reality.

I didn't actually take HS biology. I was on the AP track so I took my bio classes at the community college. If you can do it that way, I super recommend it because the state pays for it, but you still get college credit. And also, it's a college class so you get to do things like leave if the teacher calls off class, which you can't do in high school.

If you go a little bit beyond what you would learn in middle school about how humans are ACTUALLY sexed, or, you know, read my posts and the articles I linked in them, you'd see that babies are actually sexed often, but at birth it's more kinda eyeballed based on physical characteristics.

Yhall are thinking, as I have often said, of zygotes.

Edit: When I say "often" I mean "more than once on different visits". You get a bunch of prenatal sex deternments, then the one at birth, all based on genitalia inspections, not chromosomes, because there's so much variation of those chromosomes within an individual that it's not useful for sexing.

This continue to be true no matter how badly you don't want it to be. I can't change the world to make chromosomes magic.

Second edit: I also just... don't believe that BB has any kind of training in biology and certainly no post-secondary training. Just from the stuff I've seen other people quote. I don't think anyone else thinks he does either. So, full disclosure on that.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

https://vegnews.com/media/W1siZiIsIjEwMjAxL1ZlZ05ld3NQbGFudEJ1aWx0RG9jTGlzdC5wbmciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIjY4MHg0MDIjIix7ImZvcm1hdCI6ImpwZyJ9XSxbInAiLCJvcHRpbWl6ZSJdXQ/VegNewsPlantBuiltDocList.png?sha=4f7c63f657ab871e

https://www.vegetarianbodybuilding.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/crossfit-vegan-bodybuilder.jpg

https://trainstrongtolivestrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/1-2-800x444.png

True Soy Boys. That "masculine" enuff for ya?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpj6grFIe1qcaomb.gif

 

[CandiCame]

https://vegnews.com/media/W1siZiIsIjEwMjAxL1ZlZ05ld3NQbGFudEJ1aWx0RG9jTGlzdC5wbmciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIjY4MHg0MDIjIix7ImZvcm1hdCI6ImpwZyJ9XSxbInAiLCJvcHRpbWl6ZSJdXQ/VegNewsPlantBuiltDocList.png?sha=4f7c63f657ab871e

https://www.vegetarianbodybuilding.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/crossfit-vegan-bodybuilder.jpg

https://trainstrongtolivestrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/1-2-800x444.png

True Soy Boys. That "masculine" enuff for ya?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpj6grFIe1qcaomb.gif

Hey, Ire, do you take constructive criticism?

Guy on the top left... his face... I criticize it.

 

[Que]

If gender were largely a social construct and if culture had shaped our ideas about gender instead of the other way around there would be no need for hormone replacement for transgender persons suffering from gender dysphoria

 

[coati]

This thread is getting close to demonstrating why Deplorables fear people who are "different" and act like big bad ass-kickers.

This is why the Lit general board is so fascinating to me. It points out the link between sexuality and social behaviors. Guys who do not have much sex with other humans tend to argue a lot.

Like a whole lot. Every day and all day long!

 

[Que]

This thread is getting close to demonstrating why Deplorables fear people who are "different" and act like big bad ass-kickers.

This is why the Lit general board is so fascinating to me. It points out the link between sexuality and social behaviors. Guys who do not have much sex with other humans tend to argue a lot.

Like a whole lot. Every day and all day long!

You're an absolute cartoon. You keep pretending that you just saunter by in the midst of your busy busy tremendously interesting sex fueled life when really you're exactly the loser that you project onto other people.

No one quarrels endlessly more than Kim and she probably gets more sex than anyone on this board.

 

[Luk]

You're an absolute cartoon. You keep pretending that you just saunter by in the midst of your busy busy tremendously interesting sex fueled life when really you're exactly the loser that you project onto other people.

No one quarrels endlessly more than Kim and she probably gets more sex than anyone on this board.

Kim is reasonable, personable, and funny. THAT's why she would have more sex than someone like yourself.