Daddy's Little Girl: Second Edition

[Wild_Honey_66]

How does pet play/leash play differ from being a little? Does it overlap?

Fara? Please tell the thing about having to hold your tongue?

 

[barefootgirl69]

How does pet play/leash play differ from being a little? Does it overlap?

I know littles who are into pet play, but I also know pets who aren't little but are submissive. I think anyone can be pets. To me, it's a head space, like little space, that they go into.

Leash play is something I like, but I don't look at it as a pet, more of a control thing. When my master said "I'm coming over tonight, be ready" having it on meant giving up my control of things. Makes my heart pound just thinking about it.

 

[AlwaysFara]

Fara? Please tell the thing about having to hold your tongue?

Oh hush, you.

 

[DarkSimian]

I know littles who are into pet play, but I also know pets who aren't little but are submissive. I think anyone can be pets. To me, it's a head space, like little space, that they go into.

Leash play is something I like, but I don't look at it as a pet, more of a control thing. When my master said "I'm coming over tonight, be ready" having it on meant giving up my control of things. Makes my heart pound just thinking about it.

*swings by PetSmart on his way to the airport*

 

[AlwaysFara]

I know littles who are into pet play, but I also know pets who aren't little but are submissive. I think anyone can be pets. To me, it's a head space, like little space, that they go into.

Leash play is something I like, but I don't look at it as a pet, more of a control thing. When my master said "I'm coming over tonight, be ready" having it on meant giving up my control of things. Makes my heart pound just thinking about it.

As soon as he snaps it into place, I get wet.

 

[barefootgirl69]

*swings by PetSmart on his way to the airport*

Lmao!
You know, even if you don't identify with any of this, I love your sass!

As soon as he snaps it into place, I get wet.

Exactly. I have GOT to stop thinking of this.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

This may seem fussy of me, but would someone mind terribly posting the definitions for both punishment and discipline?

I feel it's vital that we understand the difference.

TIA

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Also, another question:

Does discipline have to include punishment?

 

[AlwaysFara]

Also, another question:

Does discipline have to include punishment?

It doesn’t.
More later!

 

[DarkSimian]

Lmao!
You know, even if you don't identify with any of this, I love your sass!



Exactly. I have GOT to stop thinking of this.

I'm sure I could be converted

 

[barefootgirl69]

This may seem fussy of me, but would someone mind terribly posting the definitions for both punishment and discipline?

I feel it's vital that we understand the difference.

TIA

That's a good idea, Honey. So, according to Google and the first thing that popped up...

PUNISHMENT
noun
the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.

DISCIPLINE
noun
the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience.

 

[PuckIt]

Yeouch!

Alright, so somebody step in here... But, since I'm too lazy to actually head for the dictionary, here are my personal definitions.

Punishment inflicts suffering for past behavior.

Discipline teaches desirable future behavior.

Eh... both have their place, I think. Maybe. But, I think that punishment without discipline is more damaging whereas discipline can be enacted without punishment.

Mmm... someone... I want to say William Glasser... published a work that discussed positive and negative reinforcement back... er... 1990(ish).

The thing was that most of my fellow students and co-workers just couldn't seem to get past their predilection that punishment was negative when actually the work was using the term "negative" to mean withholding a desirable rather than administering an undesirable. Which lead to a lot of misunderstandings the further we went that may or may not be a precursor to my receding hairline and dimples in my temples.

Er... Was that what you were asking?

 

[barefootgirl69]

Yeouch!

Alright, so somebody step in here... But, since I'm too lazy to actually head for the dictionary, here are my personal definitions.

Punishment inflicts suffering for past behavior.

Discipline teaches desirable future behavior.

Eh... both have their place, I think. Maybe. But, I think that punishment without discipline is more damaging whereas discipline can be enacted without punishment.

Mmm... someone... I want to say William Glasser... published a work that discussed positive and negative reinforcement back... er... 1990(ish).

The thing was that most of my fellow students and co-workers just *couldn't seem to get past their predilection that punishment was negative when actually the work was using the term "negative" to mean withholding a desirable rather than administering an undesirable.* Which lead to a lot of misunderstandings the further we went that may or may not be a precursor to my receding hairline and dimples in my temples.
Er... Was that what you were asking?

Society seems to be made up of this.

I think the look you gave Love (that you spoke of earlier) would be akin to the look I give when my kids are talking and not working... a silent reminder or admonishment (I like that term). An "oh, really?". My boys pointed out years ago that the verse on my schoolroom fit perfectly.

"I will guide thee with mine eyes...."



I like the gentle admonishments or suggestions or reminders of what I should be doing, or should have done. No punishment is required because I usually toe the mark and fix it. There's nothing I hate more than letting him down. That's punishment enough.

 

[cascadiabound]

This may seem fussy of me, but would someone mind terribly posting the definitions for both punishment and discipline?

I feel it's vital that we understand the difference.

TIA

From a blog I follow:
"Punishment is always intended to correct a behavior. That is its only purpose. Failure to complete a task (without sufficient mitigating circumstances, obviously) and acting out etc are all unacceptable behaviors that must be corrected. I tend to use “discipline” to signify an action that is intended to regulate a submissive’s life, focus her mind, and calm her busy brain. So I might spank a submissive as punishment to address an infraction, and I might spank a submissive as “maintenance discipline” because she is the kind of submissive for whom the sting of pain and the catharsis of tears is a potent tonic for her overamped, frenetic “sub brain.” Very different goals, and very different subjective experiences for the submissive."


I might point out that for some of us, spanking can never be used as punishment or discipline 'cause we like it too much.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

You guys, I have goosebumps. All y'all are amazeballs.

 

[PuckIt]

How does pet play/leash play differ from being a little? Does it overlap?

Ok, I should apologize. Because my first thought went to one day in the South Plains Mall when I saw a lady walking her kid on a leash and halter thing. And the little three or four-year-old was mushing just as hard as he was worth for Toys by Roy.

And I may or may not have giggled.

*cough*


However... Well, the thing is, I don't really understand some of the pet dynamics. What I mean is that I don't really understand why some people look at the use of a leash as somehow inherently... er... dehumanizing, I suppose.

See, the thing is, I'm a Stanley Coren fanboi. For any who may not know, he wrote a lot, and I do mean a lot, of the psychology and neurosciences textbooks for awhile while he was teaching out of a university in Canada. I want to say Vancouver, but I can't swear to that.


Any road, he semi-retired and turned his professional acumen to his hobby, his dogs. And wrote some... well, actually some pretty cerebral stuff applying his understandings from his professional studies to the canine world. I've got probably five of his books on my shelves even in my much pared down library after we lost the house. (Ceaser who?) He even had a television show for a while, "Good Dog." The premise of which is that there is no such thing as a bad dog, there are just people who don't understand them.

Any road, my (long-winded and rambling, as usual) point is that amidst and amongst everything else, his take on leash usage was very singular and different. For some dogs, he posits, this is a reassurance that they are safe. That their person is in control of the situation. Mmm. Somewhat on the same level as holding hands, or a reassuring hand on the shoulder.

And I think for some people, it works the same way. They don't completely trust themselves to maintain control or maybe they are fearful of the environment. But, the leash, whether literal or figurative, sort of maintains that reassuring contact for them when a hug wouldn't be conducive and might even be contra-indicated. So, in a way, it's really more... I don't know. I just don't think it's necessarily about restraint in a bad way that some people tend to look at it. Dragging someone along against their will. And I don't think the use of a leash, in and of itself, is dehumanizing. Hell, I've seen some people treat others much less humanely just the way they interact at the gas pump without ever touching them.

*shrug*

And I think there is a certain component in the little archetype that... maybe doesn't necessarily need, so much as craves that contact and reassurance that they are safe and everything is alright. That the person that they offer their little up to is in control of the situation.

*shrug*

I don't insist on my interpretation. But, I have often thought that just the constant arm around the shoulders or in her butt pocket, while they are just walking around, isn't too dissimilar from a leash in that respect. That guiding hand. That feeling of "I'm here. I've got you."


Any road, I don't know. In my mental process, I pretty much imagine it as a Venn between littles and pets. And I can see where there might be some overlap between them. But, I can also see a large faction of littles where leash play might cross over a boundary for them. Because of that view that it would dehumanize or somehow make them less than what they choose to be.


In my own relationship with Love, her collar, which I discussed elsewhere, was used for a different purpose. But, arguably, the way she would clutch my hand or arm when we went somewhere unfamiliar to her was the heart and soul of using a leash.

So, I don't know, really. But, I've often wondered if many littles don't engage in the underlying spirit of leash play even when the thought of a literal leash just doesn't appeal to them.

But, I guess it really is just a question of frame of reference, really. How they themselves see the leash and collar dynamic.

 

[AlwaysFara]

I do get wayward at the mall...

 

[PuckIt]

I do get wayward at the mall...

It's the white shoes in the window of the shoe store, isn't it? It's okay. You can admit it.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

It's the white shoes in the window of the shoe store, isn't it? It's okay. You can admit it.

AHHHH HA HA HA HA

Boom.

 

[AlwaysFara]

It's the white shoes in the window of the shoe store, isn't it? It's okay. You can admit it.

AHHHH HA HA HA HA

Boom.

Hmph.

 

[Nzerxx]

I often comment that I've never really needed punishment, but discipline, gentle correction and guidance, is a marvelous thing to receive from someone who knows us, cares about us, and has our best interests at heart.

Yes Honey 100%

 

[Nzerxx]

More ruminations about discipline.
And thoughts about "good girl"
These are tied together for me to be honest.
I want to be a good girl. I need to be a good girl, I want to be HIS good girl and and crave to hear him say those words and the effect they have on me is palpable. Makes me melty and quivery and puts me halfway into that *little* space. Of course it makes me see RED if anyone other than my guy says it. Anyone else calling me a good girl or a little girl and they will get a *look* that will pretty much burn flesh.

That being said... and therefore my clear motivation to be *good*, follow the rules, do what is expected and try to even anticipate what would be pleasing are all part of my underlying personality and drivers of my submission - which means that punishment/ discipline is not a driver for me. It is not something that I need as a threat to do the right thing. I am motivated by praise, by adoration, by affection, by simply knowing I have done the right thing, by fear of disappointment, anxiety about failure. Which means... the words "good girl" as praise of anything big or small is deeply satisfying and tightens that bond between us (because no one else gets to use those words) and because of the visceral response those words have on me... the pleasure in knowing I have done well and pleased him.

You have just described me Cass and in a perfect way I never could

However... there is a place for discipline in spite of all this. I make mistakes - sometimes almost willfully, and he needs to hold the leash tightly to remind me that this IS a power exchange relationship. The times that correction or discipline feels most fitting are when a rule regarding safety has been forgotten or transgressed, or when rules regarding self wort/ self care need to be reinforced. For me, the most effective discipline is writing lines. Hand writing - pen on paper - a sentence of his choosing, that drives the lesson home, again and again. It has such an effect to do this. For me... I always write lines, sitting on the floor, numbering the lines, the transgression high in my mind and the determination to not do it again and at the same time, the catharsis in writing again and again, watching my hand form the letters in cursive carefully again and again. 100 times. or 200 times. And then... it is over. My hand cramped. My legs cramped. And a tangible product of pages and pages of my discipline in my hands... because he assigned them to me.

*note to self* ask Sir for lines next time

 

[cookiecat]

From a blog a follow:
"Punishment is always intended to correct a behavior. That is its only purpose. Failure to complete a task (without sufficient mitigating circumstances, obviously) and acting out etc are all unacceptable behaviors that must be corrected. I tend to use “discipline” to signify an action that is intended to regulate a submissive’s life, focus her mind, and calm her busy brain. So I might spank a submissive as punishment to address an infraction, and I might spank a submissive as “maintenance discipline” because she is the kind of submissive for whom the sting of pain and the catharsis of tears is a potent tonic for her overamped, frenetic “sub brain.” Very different goals, and very different subjective experiences for the submissive."


I might point out that for some of us, spanking can never be used as punishment or discipline 'cause we like it too much.

Hi! I've been lurking but thought I'd reply to the punishment/discipline question.

Cassie's quote is great!

Punishment should fit the crime. I hate to see the posts in the BDSM forum where punishment was silence or abandonment for a time frame. I wasn't punished often; not because I wasn't a hot mess (I was!) but because it was saved for egregious behavior. I can only compare it to parenting, maybe? When do you punish your kid? Not at every turn of the corner. Only when it's been a blatant disregard for the rules.

The thing I appreciated about punishment is it wiped the slate clean. Often times, it's human nature to hold a grudge. Bring up sins of the past. Judge what might happen in the future by what went wrong in the past. By enduring a punishment, we were able to move on. I was able to cry, let go of the guilt for being "bad".
We didn't stay mad at each other.

I like what was said above about discipline regulating a sub's life. How it helps the crazy chaos in my head. Calms the voices in my head that tell me I can't do it, I'm not good enough, etc. Discipline, for us, never involved punishment or an act that resembled punishment.

Quite often discipline came in the form of training. Sometimes it involved things he wanted me to try - like anal. So the discipline would involve wearing a bigger plug for an hour each night. It got me focused on what he wanted of me. On one thing, not 1000.

Sometimes he felt I was being too chaotic / overwhelmed so the discipline was something like spanking, then standing in the corner with red butt exposed. Or kneeling in front of him, offering up my breasts. The goal was to focus on my place to him, to switch my brain from chaos to calm, to remember he came first before all my other worries. Once I got focused, we could calmly discuss the day, problems, etc.

This is how we used it in our relationship. We did a lot of reading on Domestic Discipline relationships, Head of Household, stuff like that. Did a lot of talking about what our goals were. Then tailoring the terms to fit those goals.

 

[cascadiabound]

^^^^

I agree with Cookie about the use of the silent treatment or abandonment as punishment. I believe these should never be used and are not a way to discipline your partner, but are instead red flag signs of abuse.


edited for typos - I keeps posting from my phone late at night and missing typos which make me look half stupid. sorry ladies and gentleman.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

^^^^

I agree with Cookie about the use of the silent treatment or abandonment as punishment. I believe these should never be used and are not ant way to discipline your partner, but are instead red flag signs of abuse.

Thank you both!!

I have enough abandonment issues already, without a partner - the person I love and trust - multiplying them tenfold.