How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Tryharder62]

What evil did the children do or their parents, that they should have consequences or divine punishment, what would cause divine retribution against innocent kids? Oh, of course, this god of yours is a jealous god and punishes descendants of those who offend him......despite telling Moses not to do that in his laws.......hypocrite much?

Bible Gateway explains it clearer than I can.

Does God punish children for their parents’ sin?
Numbers 14:18

God punishes people for their own, personal sin. Nowhere in the Bible do righteous believers pay eternally for their parents’ sins. God clearly states that a son who acts righteously, even though he has a sinful father, “will not die for his father’s sin” (Eze 18:14–20). The law states, ”Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin” (Dt 24:16).

This is not to say, however, that nothing is passed on through the family tree. Sinful patterns of behavior are often passed on to family members. For example, an environment of alcoholism, sexual abuse or violence can scar children for life. But the children will answer to God for their own lives, not for those of their parents.

There are instances in the Bible where children experience the tragic consequences of their parents’ sins. For example, David’s affair with Bathsheba resulted in the death of the son from that union (see 2Sa 12:14,18). Today “crack babies” suffer for their mothers’ behavior of using crack cocaine. Until the addictive cycle is broken, generation after generation will be trapped by sin.

The good news of the gospel is that the cycle can be broken through obedience by faith. Hezekiah, the son of the wicked King Ahaz, broke the cycle when he turned to God. So did Josiah, the son of the tyrant Amon. When children break the pattern set by sinful parents, they can receive God’s blessing. The gospel of Jesus Christ offers power to break sin’s grip on families.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Bible Gateway explains it clearer than I can.

Does God punish children for their parents’ sin?
Numbers 14:18

God punishes people for their own, personal sin. Nowhere in the Bible do righteous believers pay eternally for their parents’ sins. God clearly states that a son who acts righteously, even though he has a sinful father, “will not die for his father’s sin” (Eze 18:14–20). The law states, ”Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin” (Dt 24:16).

This is not to say, however, that nothing is passed on through the family tree. Sinful patterns of behavior are often passed on to family members. For example, an environment of alcoholism, sexual abuse or violence can scar children for life. But the children will answer to God for their own lives, not for those of their parents.

There are instances in the Bible where children experience the tragic consequences of their parents’ sins. For example, David’s affair with Bathsheba resulted in the death of the son from that union (see 2Sa 12:14,18). Today “crack babies” suffer for their mothers’ behavior of using crack cocaine. Until the addictive cycle is broken, generation after generation will be trapped by sin.

The good news of the gospel is that the cycle can be broken through obedience by faith. Hezekiah, the son of the wicked King Ahaz, broke the cycle when he turned to God. So did Josiah, the son of the tyrant Amon. When children break the pattern set by sinful parents, they can receive God’s blessing. The gospel of Jesus Christ offers power to break sin’s grip on families.

Oh, nooo.....sophistry won't work here. You don't get to use that kind of cop-out rhetoric with me.

For starters, the doctrine of original sin is a direct case of the Christian god punishing the descendants of Adam for an act that they never committed.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. - Romans 5:12-14

Then there is the matter of god of the Tanakh punishing the descendants of those who "hated" him.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; - Exodus 20:5

Finally, the death of David's son by Bathsheba wasn't a natural and indirect consequence of his adultery and his role in Uriah's death. Oh, no, mister. That baby was directly and involuntarily punished for his father's "sins". (As stated more than once, I don't believe that "sin" exists as such. It's a Christian term that treats good and evil as a personal offense against a rather rash and thin-skinned god, if you ask me.)

And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. - 2 Samuel 12: 13-16

Also, consider the supposed "sin" of numbering the Israelites in a census later on......who was punished? David or his subjects? Why, his subjects, of course. Though admittedly in this case, David could have chosen a punishment that was directed more at himself and selfishly chose to let others suffer in his place. Some king, huh? Still, the matter was given to him as a choice and not the people affected by it.

The Lord said to Gad, David’s seer, “Go and tell David, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.’”

So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your choice: three years of famine, three months of being swept away[a] before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord—days of plague in the land, with the angel of the Lord ravaging every part of Israel.’ Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me.”

David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into human hands.”

So the Lord sent a plague on Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell dead. - 1 Chronicles 21:9-14

So, 70,000 innocent people died for one man's supposed "sin," which frankly doesn't sound like a bad decree in the first place....what kind of just god is that?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I gave myself to Jesus.....but he never calls.....

 

[runsilent]

OK now you are just being silly. Do starving children in Africa not pray enough? What do their megar words not say enough to gain God's favor. They are children and apparently don't know how to pray better. Supplication from children that don't even know what the words mean? Your god is vindictive and cruel - runsilent

Hurting children strike at my heart. Maybe because of my childhood. The thing is God allows choice. Evil that we choose causes consequences to others-even innocent others.
We want to chose our path in life. What happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not stopping the consequences.

So the starving children chose their own path and deserve what they get? Really? What does a three year old child decide upon. Well except they are hungry and want some food.

 

[Tryharder62]

Romans 8 :28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

I cannot explain why God has done everything he has done. In fact I can tell you that I would not have done it the way He did if I were God. I have 2 sons and there is no way I would have crucified one of them for your sins. Who is more loving then me or God?

I was one ticked off girl before I realized God is love. I was molested as a child over several years. What did I do to deserve that? Nothing- I was innocent. It was not God that did it but the evil choice of one person. Evil is doing something that is against the will of God. What He did probably did affect my children. I'm not the same person I would have been. They probably had a lot less freedom to do things than I would have given them before. I thank God though that I turned to him and did not become an abuser myself.

What we do has consequences. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten the argument about starving people in Africa. Not once have I had the person who is so angry say they were helping that problem in some way. Do nothing but blame God.

Years later I can see that I have been a much more compassionate nurse and have helped people who went through what I did.

I could have stayed in my anger and hate but I chose to let it go and trust that God is love. We all have that choice. I had to realize that I am not God and he knows the plans he has for me.

Kathy

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Ah, the classic "Lord works in mysterious ways" cop-out, fall-back argument. I don't buy it. Wicked men can cause poverty for sure, up to a point, but look at this way. Do wicked men cause drought? Do they keep the rains from falling? Do wicked men make the crops fail, make locusts appear and steal the harvest? Do they cause maggots to appear and destroy cabbages?

I thought not, aside from the general problem of climate change, which we can all do something to fight it, but that's very limited in impact next to the big corporations. This doesn't change the fact that drought happened for centuries before the Industrial Revolution elevated levels of carbon dioxide emissions in the atmosphere and weakened the ozone layer, before the greenhouse effect began to occur.

Humans might do some harm to the environment that exacerbates the famine and consequent poverty and hunger, but they don't cause arid climates, don't cause locusts, don't cause maggots, don't cause cattle to die (aside from incidents like Sherman's March to the Sea, of course), they don't make the soil poor to begin with, only make it worse through erosion.

It's one thing to believe in many gods who don't make false claims of flawless benevolence and omnipotence and who must co-exist with other deities from other pantheons with overlapping duties. It's quite another to believe that one, three-avatar supreme being somehow is both omnipotent, omniscient, and all-benevolent. No, if he's that powerful, he can prevent most natural disasters, so he either chooses not to prevent, in which case he's at least negligent, if not worse. If he's not choosing to allow them, he's causing them, in which case he's evil. If neither scenario is true, if he's not responsible for them, then he's not omnipotent and just hypes up his power out of ego. Or he.....just doesn't exist at all.

My gods are not omnipotent, don't make absurd claims that they're always perfect and flawless, but they are far more just than this 3-avatar version of Jehovah that you worship. They are who they claim to be, gods who are doing their duties as best they can, not an all-powerful supreme being with three avatars who is somehow both holy and sovereign, an impossible contradiction.

Just my take on things.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Who, David? Your examples are all from the New Testament.

You want to claim that a prophet who's supposed to be 100% accurate, is actually filling his explicit prophecies with metaphors. And in this case, one of his most compelling prophecy songs, he used three different bestial metaphors in a row, but didn't make any of them clearly metaphors.

Look in David's other writing. When he means real lions, he writes lions. When he uses metaphor, he writes "like a lion."

If you use the measure of reliability for prophets and prophecies that the Bible says you should use, David clearly fails the test.

The prophet is quoting Christ's future words where Christ uses the analogy. And then Christ also uses a similar analogy in the verse that I quoted that you disregarded because it's from the NT.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Judge releases Muslims who 'trained school shooters'

Read more at https://www.wnd.com/2018/08/judge-releases-muslims-who-trained-school-shooters/#cIfIymWWWAdLdCPA.99

 

[Tryharder62]

My gods are not omnipotent, don't make absurd claims that they're always perfect and flawless, but they are far more just than this 3-avatar version of Jehovah that you worship. They are who they claim to be, gods who are doing their duties as best they can, not an all-powerful supreme being with three avatars who is somehow both holy and sovereign, an impossible contradiction.

Just my take on things.

I am not poking at you with this question, but really want to know. Did your God's create or were they part of the creation? What I am seeing from looking around is that creation just happened and 3 Greek God's were created and they gave birth to all the other God's. Am I getting that right?

The other question I was pondering is if the God's aren't omnipotent are they also not omnipresent. If not, how can I call upon one to help me if you need them too? It almost seems they are more like superhero's than God's.

Genuinely asking!

 

[phrodeau]

The prophet is quoting Christ's future words where Christ uses the analogy. And then Christ also uses a similar analogy in the verse that I quoted that you disregarded because it's from the NT.

That's ridiculous bullshit.

First off, you give us Jesus talking about sheep, lambs, wolves, serpents and doves, and claim that David quotes Jesus when he sings about bulls, lions and dogs.

Second, there's about a thousand years between their lives. David dies in 2 Samuel, and Jesus was 28 or 43 generations later, depending on which list you want to believe.

Third, there's no historical proof that David wrote any of the Psalms. He may have simply collected and compiled them.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

That's ridiculous bullshit.

First off, you give us Jesus talking about sheep, lambs, wolves, serpents and doves, and claim that David quotes Jesus when he sings about bulls, lions and dogs.

Second, there's about a thousand years between their lives. David dies in 2 Samuel, and Jesus was 28 or 43 generations later, depending on which list you want to believe.

Third, there's no historical proof that David wrote any of the Psalms. He may have simply collected and compiled them.

In fact, there's no historical proof that the Psalms weren't written after David's death, even. Just like the Pentateuch was probably written long after Moses died (if he ever existed in the first place).

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Make a case for why any of us would want to spend an eternity with you in Heaven. Or with people who think the way you do.

Use both sides of the paper, if necessary.

This one still gets me. Good one, man.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

The Messiah hasn't come yet, all we have had are prophets.

Between Jesus, the Messiah, and Shiva, major religious figures seem very keen on edging. They take forever to come.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

What I should have said was that Jesus never in any way repudiated Judaism in favor of an overtly broader ministry, nor did he ever discourage the teaching or expectation of a politically conquering Messiah. Just two reasons why the notion of the application and beneficiaries of his teachings to Gentiles was not without controversy.

Great point on the Romans and the lions and the secrecy of the early church in Rome.

Another example of why Christianity today has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Please take the time to read this first post and vote in the poll if you haven't yet thank you.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

THE HEAVENS DECLARE: Human evolution: The evidence doesn't add up

Read more at https://www.wnd.com/2018/08/human-evolution-the-evidence-doesnt-add-up/#rqCfdBhxK1zlAsf7.99

 

[colddiesel]

This is a deeply weird thread.

So it is. Its most notable feature is the monumental stupidity of two contributors, xrodobagginsx and Tryharder62.

Neither of these posters has the slightest capacity to distinguish between what is verifiable fact and what they believe. In fact they both are convinced of the idiotic contention that belief is fact. Thus, they spew stupidity continuously - and it ain't gunna change.

 

[runsilent]

THE HEAVENS DECLARE: Human evolution: The evidence doesn't add up

Read more at https://www.wnd.com/2018/08/human-evolution-the-evidence-doesnt-add-up/#rqCfdBhxK1zlAsf7.99

You quoted WND? That is more silly than quoting the bible. Hey enjoy your personal beliefs all you want but don't inflict it on the rest of us. The Muslims will be happy to tell you about their one true god but you don't want to hear their false beliefs and pay no intention to them.

JRR Tolkien wrote some really good stories about hobbits, elves and the devil gollum. Just because something is written down does not make it true

 

[Tryharder62]

So it is. Its most notable feature is the monumental stupidity of two contributors, xrodobagginsx and Tryharder62.

Neither of these posters has the slightest capacity to distinguish between what is verifiable fact and what they believe. In fact they both are convinced of the idiotic contention that belief is fact. Thus, they spew stupidity continuously - and it ain't gunna change.

Awwwww! I knew you liked me!

 

[Tryharder62]

Also, and this is my favorite part, this is the Literotica forum. I have multiple graphic fuck stories posted on this website. Are these guys some kind of missionary? Walking into a brother with a Bible and no sense of humor.

Q: At what time of day was Adam created?
A: A little before Eve.

Q: Why didn't they play cards on the Ark?
A: Because Noah was standing on the deck

Q. Why didn't Noah go fishing?
A. He only had two worms.

Q. Did Eve ever have a date with Adam?
A. No, just an apple.

See, I have a sense of humor. I came to lit like everyone else. Googled romantic writings because I would love to write for love inspired a Christian writing option and this sight popped up. Did pretty much what you do on a sight like this.I really do like the people here. Tried other sites of debate but they get downright nasty. People here are smart and share their points of view well. Learned a lot of other people's points of view.

 

[Tryharder62]

Did you ever try TOL? I found it to be an amoral wasteland before I walked away.

Toll -A person that is trying to be a tRolL, but has problems Reading and understanding the message of the person he is trying to troll; furthermore, the person has very limited knowledge of the art of the written word i.e., Literature.

I am who I am. I never try to be someone else. Just enjoy talking to people about God in a thread about God.

So tell me....what is your truth? What do you believe?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

It is my opinion that this is David's lyrical description of the people in the crowd that surrounded Jesus. Evil people from all classes who taunted him, scourge him, nailed him to a cross and killed him.



I'm a chick! (oh...urban dictionary) a non-derogatory term used to mean female. Imagine -an animal description for a type of person. It happens

I totally agree.

 

[colddiesel]

Awwwww! I knew you liked me!

I do - but it does not affect my observation of your inability to distinguish between belief and fact.

xfrodo on the other hand is thoroughly unlikable as well as dumb.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

K Thanks

 

[Led_Astray]

I have yet to hear any religious person make a case for why their religion is the correct one without using a claim that adherents of other religions can also make with the same amount of evidence.

So its hard to believe that one of them is right and all the others wrong. Occam's Razor suggest they are all equally fictional.

But I'm open minded. Give me evidence and you might change my mind.