Well, Trump has finally and overtly committed treason

[KeithD]

it was nice of putin to offer to help us investigate the crimes he committed against us.

And particularly nice that Neville Trump thought that was an excellent idea.

 

[Tigersman]

Traitor

Trump is arrogant, egotistical, a bully and coward. He just added Traitor to his resume. He went to Helsinki to get his next set of instructions from his Master, Putin on what to do next to turn the USA into the next Soviet satellite state.

 

[magicalmoments]

Trump

The name will go into history in the same way as Benedict Arnold did, or Quisling.

 

[IG_88]

The whole treason thing is just stupid. He will never be charged with it cuz he can't be. It's been said over and over and over yet people still cling to it.
That being said, he totally fucked up. Even Fox is all over him for it.

 

[someoneyouknow]

And particularly nice that Neville Trump thought that was an excellent idea.

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/am7Oqwj_460s.jpg

 

[IG_88]

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/am7Oqwj_460s.jpg

That's pretty funny

 

[Fierywhore]

All Hale Comrade Trump, as he sells out your once Great Country......

What an Arsehole of a Man he is

 

[about_average]

I didn't read the indictments. Was Trump among those named?

Come back and post when you get up to speed on last week's information.

During the 1990's (Clinton Administration) the US actively supported, with money and consultants, the election campaigns of Boris Yeltsin, who was not a popular candidate in Russia itself, mainly due to his economic policies.

The Russians allege that, during the 1991 attempted coup, US intelligence agencies coordinated and cooperated with the coup plotters, including providing secure codes used by the coup plotters to Yeltsin, so he could intercept their communications. US political consultants, with the blessing of State, provided money and resources to the campaign of Yeltsin, which Russia considered a violation of their soveriegnity.

During the 2011-2012 mass protests the US provided money, material, and consultants to the anti-Putin protesters (specifically to the campaign of Alexey Navalny). In 2012 Clinton at State provided $50 million dollars to "civil society assistance", what was channeled to the opposition party.

None of the above is controversial (in America) or denied by the parties involved.

USAID, the National Endowment for Democracy, and the International Republican Institute all provide money, material, and expertise - to the tune of millions of "official" dollars - to influence the elections of foreign countries. Billions more flow through proxy institutions.

I have no idea what the laws in those countries are regarding political parties and organizations receiving aid from foreign entities, things illegal here in the US.
I also don't know if the US hacked the computer systems of those countries or attacked their utility command and control systems or their voting systems.

So you haven't provided enough information for me to offer any thoughts on your question.

Seriously, you wanted Hillary "I will attack Iran" Clinton?

Apparently you missed Trump appointing a National Security Advisor who has long advocated the violent overthrow of not only Iran but also North Korea and who sabotaged the agreement with North Korea that enabled them to develop their strategic nuclear missiles to the point they have.

That is a great hat. Russia was a great ally in WWII, and will be again with sanity in positions of leadership. Get this... President Trump said nuclear weapons were a negative force. WeThePeople do not want war with Russia, or anyone else. Only DeepState and their social media anti-Trump ducks want war.

lmao, I suggest you learn some history.

Yep, in terms of perspective, let's not forget that we, as a nation, have violently overthrown regimes we didn't like and put in place some murderous bastards.

Take Iran - as fucked up as it is - we shouldn't forget that the Iranian Revolution overthrew the Shah, whom we put in power by over-throwing the duly elected president of the country and then spend decades working with and supporting SAVAK, his brutal secret police. The Iranian people may not like the Mullahs and the Revolutionary Council, but they, with reason, have no love of the US either.

WTF!? Are you next going to defend the neo-nazis and white supremacists and the death of a woman be because there was once institutional slavery in the US?

 

[about_average]

You are aware that the Trump administration has expanded the sanctions against Russia and Russian individuals beyond the Obama sanctions, to such a degree that Bill Browder (a fierce anti-Putin critic) characterized them as "a bulls eye hitting Putin and his associates where it hurts"?

Only because it was a congressional bill so overwhelmingly passed that if he vetoed it they'd have overridden his veto.
He was opposed to the bill and the sanctions. So he gets zero credit for it.

And for the southern vote - a little old lady making sweet tea - looks at the camera and says "Y'all, that Donnie fella, why he just ain't right, bless his heart. I reckon Jesus is gonna smite him come 2020 and he wants you to reach out and smite him at the polls too. Now, you can't smite him in 2018, but you can smite his little minions, so call up your neighbors and get some smiting done."

So?
does she carry as much weight and influence as Trump supporter Pat Robertson (who said over 3,000 people deserved to die on 9-11) who prayed on national TV for justices of the US supreme court to removed by God?

You conveniently edited out arming the ukrainians. You know with actual arms to shoot back with. That sort of thing.

Speaking of conveniently omitting facts:

“The U.S. government is not selling the Ukrainian government these weapons. Under the previous two administrations, the U.S. government has approved export licenses to Ukraine, so this is nothing new."

-State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert Dec 21 2017

Good points.

I'm far from being a "Russian defender", because we all know the expression "Russian boots" and the danger that they posed and still pose to their neighboring countries.

But as far as the US are concerned, I fail to grasp "The Russians are coming!" paranoia and "Trump's the Devil versus Trump is Messiah" GB fights.

Even I, being as illiterate in political and economic matters as I am, think that Politics are much more complex than that.

They aren't "coming", they are here. They infiltrated US election systems and attacked our energy grid.

Nope. Just keep giving Tricky Trumpy rope. He will hang himself.

No, he won't. This will all blow over amongst the weak willed Republicans in Congress. Trump owns the republican party. They are terrified of Trump's base and will continue to put party (and position) before country.

MAJOR BACKPEDAL IN PROGRESS!!

When I rose to the defense of my President earlier today in response to spurious charges of his "treason," it was before I had witnessed his actual statement to the press with regard to Russia's "meddling" in the 2016 election.

Having now heard and viewed that statement, I am, like many of his critics here thoroughly appalled. His comments were facile, ignorant, deplorably unpatriotic and contrary to American national interests and seemed primarily designed to buttress his continued fantasy and psychological need to believe that he won election based entirely on the force of his sparkling personality and in no way supported (much less aided)by someone as morally despicable as Vladimir Putin.

As worthy as his performance today was of complete repudiation, it was not "treason." That word IS a specific legal crime with specific legal parameters that do not fit the circumstances.

What most people mean when they use the word, of course, is supreme disloyalty. By that measure the President is guilty as charged and has yet added one more shovelful of earth on his political grave as well as the near-term prospects of the Republican party.

The sad part is he does not need to harbor this nonsense to solidify his claim to the office. He remains compelled to rebut any and all personal and professional criticisms, both the lies and the truths, with equal fervor. That can only work to his ultimate disadvantage to the point of making himself look foolish.

The fact of mutual engagement of covert intelligence operations between the United States and Russia requires neither an apology NOR any retreat, even a mere symbolic one, from our resolve to defend ourselves from foreign influence. What he should have said to Putin was, "of all the political assistance I don't want or need is yours. You would be wise to enter into a cooperative effort with the United States to bring peace to Europe, Asia and throughout the world rather than engaging in a campaign of duplicity that worked so poorly for your predecessors."

Trump missed a "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" moment that was practically served up to him.

Very sad.

By all US agencies who address such issues, we are in a cyberwar with Russia. Unless Trump engages in what he's advocated (nuclear strikes in response to non-nuclear strategic attacks (i.e., cyber attacks) any war with Russia will be a cyberwar, as it currently is.

Kennedy's meeting with Khrushchev in Vienna was a disaster for the US and major win for the Soviet Union, just like Trump's with Putin.
At least Kennedy had the balls and class to admit he really fucked up.

None whatsoever. Which is why I wish Trump would stop being so fucking defensive about something he doesn't need to be defensive about. Russia "meddled" big time on his behalf. He can't seem to understand that that action compels condemnation -- regardless of its lack of efficacy -- and he seems further incapable of doing that without somehow discrediting his own election. The two DO NOT go hand in hand. Stop pretending that they do and playing directly into the hands of the Democrats, not to mention Putin himself.

I hope to hell this is all some diabolical plot to pull the rug out from under Putin when he (not to mention the rest of us) least expects it. Otherwise, it's Uncle Sam facepalm time.

It's being willfully naive to claim that Russian fake news didn't sway indecisive voters.
Look at PizzaGate. While not a Russian operation, though I'm sure their bots promoted it, many people believed it, up to armed attack on the pizza place.
Fake news (defined as actual false stories, NOT Trump's definition of fake news) does influence people.

It is not "splitting hairs" to state that NO serious analysis shows the Russian efforts were even measurably effective.

Yet you know voter fraud is influencing elections even though NO serious analysis shows that they are.

 

[coati]

Trump doesn't fit either one.....you're just wrong like all the other folks who try and pretend he's Hitler incarnate waging a chemical weapons holocaust out of every fart that leaks from the mans ass.

Man, your panties sure did get twisted into wad.

After you calm down from your frenzy, let me know when I ever mentioned Hitler in any of my posts. You seem a little defensive...

 

[about_average]

He took the opportunity to trash Peter Strzok while he was up there--a guy who took down many Russian spies in the U.S.

American FBI Agent who routs out Russian espionage and very good at it vs. the Russian dictator. Trump knows who he likes better. Why? Because Strzok said some mean things about him and Vlad "says nice things about me."

That's all it's about. His big baby autocratic ego. He doesn't care about ANYTHING else. And the dim bulbs cheer him on for no other reason than they want to be ruled by a dictator, end of story.

And Trump even got that wrong because of mistranslation. Putin said he was yarkii, which mean brilliant like a peacock, it does not also mean smart or intelligent the way the english brilliant does.

 

[Rightguide]

None whatsoever. Which is why I wish Trump would stop being so fucking defensive about something he doesn't need to be defensive about. Russia "meddled" big time on his behalf. He can't seem to understand that that action compels condemnation -- regardless of its lack of efficacy -- and he seems further incapable of doing that without somehow discrediting his own election. The two DO NOT go hand in hand. Stop pretending that they do and playing directly into the hands of the Democrats, not to mention Putin himself.

I hope to hell this is all some diabolical plot to pull the rug out from under Putin when he (not to mention the rest of us) least expects it. Otherwise, it's Uncle Sam facepalm time.

Another question. Where is the evidence the Russians hacked the DNC or Hillary's campaign? Where are the hard drives and the servers that were allegedly hacked? The whole Russian collusion narrative is an invention of the Democrats and people in the the intelligence community like Brennan, Clapper, Comey, and other Obama actors. But where is the evidence they effected the outcome of this election in ways not already addressed by Barack Obama?

Barack Obama told the American people he told Putin to "knock it off" and claimed he did. He also said it was impossible for a foreign actor to alter or corrupt the American voting system. So where is the evidence Putin did anything since Trump was elected that needs to be addressed today by Trump?

There is no doubt Russian intelligence agencies operate in the US just as our CIA and FBI operate in their country on many levels. But why are we acting like we haven't known this for decades?

Brennan called Trump a traitor yesterday, yet at the height of the Cold War with the Soviet Union and in our bicentennial year he voted for Gus Hall, the Communist Party presidential candidate. A party shown by the FBI to be controlled at the time by the Soviet Union and representing their interests here in the United States.

Why should Trump echo a false narrative created by Obama and the Democrats to Putin, so that as soon as he did the media could say, "Trump admits Putin and the Russians helped him get elected!"

PS: See my post # 220.

 

[RoryN]

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 262

Que 27
TalkRadio1 18
BotanyBoy 14

 

[TalkRadio1]

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 262

Que 27
TalkRadio1 18
BotanyBoy 14

Thanks, Rory!

We can always count on you for the post count!

 

[HisArpy]

Thanks, Rory!

We can always count on you for the post count!

It's what he does. Quote someone else's stuff and claims it's his own. That's it.

 

[RoryN]

Thanks, Rory!

We can always count on you for the post count!

Yup! Now get back to your meltdown.

 

[beew]

There is no doubt Russian intelligence agencies operate in the US just as our CIA and FBI operate in their country on many levels. But why are we acting like we haven't known this for decades?

I'm not commenting on Trump, I don't understand these issues enough.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if he did, given that he appears to be primarily invested in his own/ and his sponsors (who propelled him into elections) financial interests.

But the other part, which you're commenting is exactly what startled me about people's reactions. Why the surprised outrage?

It seems like common sense to me to assume that All superpowers engage in espionage and are trying to either sabotage each others' infrastructure, or influence each others elections towards an outcome that advantages them.
(in Russia's case, against Hillary and with Trump due to his stated foreign policies ).

 

[BB10]

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 262

Que 27
TalkRadio1 18
BotanyBoy 14

maybe YOU should count election votes

we know we can trust you

 

[Luk]

Another question. Where is the evidence the Russians hacked the DNC or Hillary's campaign? Where are the hard drives and the servers that were allegedly hacked? The whole Russian collusion narrative is an invention of the Democrats and people in the the intelligence community like Brennan, Clapper, Comey, and other Obama actors. But where is the evidence they effected the outcome of this election in ways not already addressed by Barack Obama?

Barack Obama told the American people he told Putin to "knock it off" and claimed he did. He also said it was impossible for a foreign actor to alter or corrupt the American voting system. So where is the evidence Putin did anything since Trump was elected that needs to be addressed today by Trump?

There is no doubt Russian intelligence agencies operate in the US just as our CIA and FBI operate in their country on many levels. But why are we acting like we haven't known this for decades?

Brennan called Trump a traitor yesterday, yet at the height of the Cold War with the Soviet Union and in our bicentennial year he voted for Gus Hall, the Communist Party presidential candidate. A party shown by the FBI to be controlled at the time by the Soviet Union and representing their interests here in the United States.

Why should Trump echo a false narrative created by Obama and the Democrats to Putin, so that as soon as he did the media could say, "Trump admits Putin and the Russians helped him get elected!"

PS: See my post # 220.

You literally watched 45 throw Americans and our intelligence agencies under the bus and all you can do is whine about Obama. Go toss a Lib, vettebirther.

 

[jp55665566]

You literally watched 45 throw Americans and our intelligence agencies under the bus and all you can do is whine about Obama. Go toss a Lib, vettebirther.

haha. "throw intelligence services under the bus" You gotta be kidding. This is the same "intelligence" services that gave us 9/11, the phony WMD, the phony Gulf of Tonkin, the phony JFK, MLK, RFK assassinations. Operation Mockingbird and collection of mega-data by the CIA, who have an explicit injunction against domestic operation. You think "intelligence", the Secret Police, are operating in Uncle Sam's best interests? Dude, or madam, you are lost.

 

[beew]

Russia is a power, Russia is a player, Russian interests are not always aligned with ours. In some areas they are our rivals, in others close to our enemies, in yet others we work and cooperate with them routinely. We buy 18 billion dollars of their goods a year (2017 number) and they buy 9 billion of ours. Yet one more reason to view that we are neither at war with them or are they our enemies in the traditional geopolitical sense. Competitors yes, enemies no.

Barack Obama (...) also said it was impossible for a foreign actor to alter or corrupt the American voting system.

There is no doubt Russian intelligence agencies operate in the US just as our CIA and FBI operate in their country on many levels. But why are we acting like we haven't known this for decades?.

These arguments would make sense to any reader, regardless of their political orientation.




COATI:

The main reason that I tend to read and listen to the opinions of GB conservative posters -but for people like coachDB- is that most of them win, thumbs up the debate part. They tend to bring logic and supporting facts to the debate.

I suspect that in many cases truth and fairness are on the Liberals' side, but many of the GBers strategies are too emotional and off-putting: Instead of a battle of wits, many of you guys engage in a battle of wills, personal attacks or "You're a racist, a misogynist, a Russian bot or traitor, a retarded moron" to anyone who challenges you or dares to think differently.

In this case: Let's assume the worst case scenario, that Trump Was partial to Putin. Other than forming an economic or geopolitical alliance with Russia, how would that affect US's infrastructure or safety?
Because Trump does seem to be racist and to be more loyal to the rich than the poor. But I can't envision him being a foreign agent who wants to destroy the US.

 

[jp55665566]

You literally watched 45 throw Americans and our intelligence agencies under the bus and all you can do is whine about Obama. Go toss a Lib, vettebirther.

haha. "throw intelligence services under the bus" You gotta be kidding. This is the same "intelligence" services that gave us 9/11, the phony WMD, the phony Gulf of Tonkin, the phony JFK, MLK, RFK assassinations. Operation Mockingbird and collection of mega-data by the CIA, who have an explicit injunction against domestic operation. You think "intelligence", the Secret Police, are operating in Uncle Sam's best interests? Dude, or madam, you are lost.
CIA out of social media.

 

[Luk]

haha. "throw intelligence services under the bus" You gotta be kidding. This is the same "intelligence" services that gave us 9/11, the phony WMD, the phony Gulf of Tonkin, the phony JFK, MLK, RFK assassinations. Operation Mockingbird and collection of mega-data by the CIA, who have an explicit injunction against domestic operation. You think "intelligence", the Secret Police, are operating in Uncle Sam's best interests? Dude, or madam, you are lost.
CIA out of social media.

I was wondering if Mike Yates was dead.

 

[beew]

Yeah, I suspect that the answer will be:

If you can't see how wanting to cooperate with, instead of engaging in wars with America's no.1 enemy is treason, you're even more of a racist than we thought you were.

Or some clever gifs or links to posters' comments taken out of context.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

I think it would be woefully misplaced to characterize most anything he does as "strategic." I think between Russia, China and North Korea, he wants ONE of those thorny relations neutralized and he believes Russia is the most promising. But this is hardly the way to go about it.

I've never understood what his foreign policy objectives are, particularly in regard to Russia. The bipartisan US government along with western allies had a successful strategy for Russia/Soviets culminating with Reagan upping the anti until he bankrupted them. The current president is doing everything to breath life into that corpse. It makes no sense. Other than their nukes, we should continue to marginalize them.

Something doesn't add up with this guy and it could be as bad as imagined.