Americans apologize for Trump

[jomar]

Didn't you get the news? Obama isn't the president any more. Trump is. And the Republicans hold a majority of congress. So where is all the programs, legislation and other stuff they were gunna do? What are they waiting for? Or is it, as Ish insists, because the minority party won't "cooperate" and pass that which they are opposed to? The Republicans hold the majority FFS. They should be able to do what they have always swore they were going to. But it ain't happenin'. How come?



Comshaw

Well, to paraphrase Paul Ryan, after being the party of obstruction for eight years (because Obama), they forgot how to govern.

 

[needit700]

Speak for yourslef

you retarded bitch!

 

[HisArpy]

Absolutely true! And, I suspect, this will kick the legs out from under the ACA and lead to the eventual demise of that program. So what's gunna happen when all those Trumpites who are on the ACA (and who can't understand that Obamacare and The Affordable Care Act are one and the same) figure out they lost their medical coverage because this was done? Hmmm? I'm sure there will be a faction that will blame it on the liberal Democrats, even though it was an all Republican thing. But there will be a whole damn bunch that wake up and smell the coffee when they no longer have medical coverage.

This is projection based on your personal animas against Trump and R's. You have NO FACTS to support this supposition.

What's interesting is that the "increase" on insurance premiums will be 10% in 2019.

Last year, as part of the tax law, Congress eliminated the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate penalty. Given the mandate’s important role in encouraging healthier people to enroll in the marketplaces, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that, in 2019, this will increase average premiums in the individual market by 10 percent.
https://www.americanprogress.org/is...dividual-mandate-repeal-short-term-plan-rule/

I guess 10% is "worse" than the 40-50% we've been seeing every year for the past several years. At least in your eyes.

Again, absolutely correct, but in so doing the government outlays grew 2.5 times faster then income. So it increased the federal deficit by $78 billion over this time in 2017. What's it gunna be at the end of the year? A bunch I'll say.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/382033-deficit-nears-600-billion-in-first-half-of-2018

You raise a debunked talking point. It's not Trump's policies which are driving the deficit.

While the tax bill made the deficit considerably larger, the CBO report is clear that the US would have seen large and growing deficits even without it
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17215440/deficits-rising-congressional-budget-office-ceo-debate

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/i5P_eIk2Bm1rOb5wnpLdXQ3P_bc=/0x0:384x446/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:384x446)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10619277/10_10_12bud_rev2_28_13_f1.jpg

Source for chart

As shown, it's not the Trump budget that's the problem. Increases in spending on social programs and prior administration deficit spending are what's really causing the current deficit. Yes, the current budget doesn't help, but it's not "the problem" as you suggest.

Further, the Dec 2017 the-sky-is-falling projections were wrong because they didn't include economic growth. Growth that is now seen to be much greater than the nay-sayers tout.

For Trump’s tax cuts to pay for themselves, the economy would have to grow by $5.5 trillion, or roughly a sustained 4.5 percent, for the next 10 years, according to CRFB.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...-tax-plan-prompts-question-can-tax-cuts-real/

To that point, the GDP is projected to increase each year in excess of the amount necessary to offset the tax cuts.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/216985/forecast-of-us-gross-domestic-product/

Look at the chart and do the math...

2018 is projected to be 4.8%
2019 is 5.1%
and so on.

So yea, keep listing the "wins" and ignoring the repercussions of those actions until we're so damned far down the tubes it's gunna be years before we crawl out.

Comshaw

Basically you need to stop spouting the old narrative that's been shown to be wrong.

 

[von_Bismarck]

What do you hope to show about Trump's policies on a chart that's from 2013?

Tim's own source has this to say:

It is no longer 2013, and spending increases approved under both Trump and Obama, as well as Trump’s tax cuts, have together expanded the deficit beyond what the above projections show. But it nonetheless functions as an important account of how we got to this point.

This analysis suggests a very obvious answer to the deficit problem (if it even is a problem, about which more in a second): raise more revenue. The deficits are overwhelmingly driven by sharp reductions in revenue caused by Bush’s and Trump’s tax cuts, as well as past spending binges (principally the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan) that need to be paid off.

 

[HisArpy]

What do you hope to show about Trump's policies on a chart that's from 2013?

Tim's own source has this to say:

It is no longer 2013, and spending increases approved under both Trump and Obama, as well as Trump’s tax cuts, have together expanded the deficit beyond what the above projections show. But it nonetheless functions as an important account of how we got to this point.

This analysis suggests a very obvious answer to the deficit problem (if it even is a problem, about which more in a second): raise more revenue. The deficits are overwhelmingly driven by sharp reductions in revenue caused by Bush’s and Trump’s tax cuts, as well as past spending binges (principally the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan) that need to be paid off.

Duh, isn't this what I said? Or can you still not read and comprehend and therefore have to selectively edit the things that are being said to make your fake talking point work?

The current deficit is based on CBO projections and include Bush and Obama era overspending rather than being the sole creation of the Trump tax cuts. Those CBO projections did not include anticipated economic growth and revenue from the tax cuts. The level of GDP growth necessary to offset the tax cuts is 4.5% over the next 10 years. CURRENT PROJECTIONS of GDP growth are in excess of that 4.5%.

I cited sources for all of those points and you STILL couldn't get the facts straight.

Idjit.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Duh, isn't this what I said? Or can you still not read and comprehend and therefore have to selectively edit the things that are being said to make your fake talking point work?

The current deficit is based on CBO projections and include Bush and Obama era overspending rather than being the sole creation of the Trump tax cuts. Those CBO projections did not include anticipated economic growth and revenue from the tax cuts. The level of GDP growth necessary to offset the tax cuts is 4.5% over the next 10 years. CURRENT PROJECTIONS of GDP growth are in excess of that 4.5%.

I cited sources for all of those points and you STILL couldn't get the facts straight.

Idjit.

What facts did I state, TimRapy? Or are you throwing shit against the wall hoping no one else will notice your error? Tell me, did you even notice the chart was from 2013 before you pressed the Submit button??

 

[HisArpy]

What facts did I state, TimRapy? Or are you throwing shit against the wall hoping no one else will notice your error? Tell me, did you even notice the chart was from 2013 before you pressed the Submit button??

I knew the chart was from 2013. It was included in the article that analyzed the deficit and the reasons for it. If you have a problem with the (still basically correct) data in the chart, blame the person who wrote the article and used it.

Being intellectually challenged as you continually prove yourself to be, I don't have any hope that you'll understand those fine nuanced points of blatant obviousness.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Just to be clear, Timothy says this

As shown, it's not the Trump budget that's the problem. Increases in spending on social programs and prior administration deficit spending are what's really causing the current deficit. Yes, the current budget doesn't help, but it's not "the problem" as you suggest.

regarding a chart that's from 2013. That's some coach dweeb level thinking right there, folks! (And reason for Tim to never impugn the reading or reasoning abilities of anyone not coachdb.)

 

[HisArpy]

Just to be clear, Timothy says this



regarding a chart that's from 2013. That's some coach dweeb level thinking right there, folks!

Idjit.

 

[von_Bismarck]

I knew the chart was from 2013. It was included in the article that analyzed the deficit and the reasons for it. If you have a problem with the (still basically correct) data in the chart, blame the person who wrote the article and used it.

Being intellectually challenged as you continually prove yourself to be, I don't have any hope that you'll understand those fine nuanced points of blatant obviousness.

You didn't bother reading the article, did you? It doesn't argue what you seem to think it argues.

 

[von_Bismarck]

And for anyone who wants a different perspective on the impact of the Trump tax cuts on the deficit, also using CBO data, there's this:

Tax cuts, spending to raise U.S. deficit to $1 trillion by 2020, CBO analysis shows

The combined effect of President Donald Trump's tax cuts and last month's budget-busting spending bill is sending the federal deficit toward the $1 trillion mark next year, according to a new analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.

The CBO report says the nation's $21 trillion debt would spike to more than $33 trillion in 10 years, with debt held by investors spiking to levels that would come close to equaling the size of the economy, reaching levels that many economists fear could spark a debt crisis.

 

[HisArpy]

You didn't bother reading the article, did you? It doesn't argue what you seem to think it argues.

Suuure...

Seems to me that complete quotes from the article DO say what they say. I'm not putting words in anyone else's mouth or selectively editing from those quotes.

If you want to have a different opinion, that's your privilege. Just don't let it get in the way of reality. A reality that the projections from Dec 2017 were flawed and that the current projections based on revenues and GDP growth show the tax cuts will be offset and then some.

That's not what I'm saying, that's what the data is saying. If all you have to refute it is that the source charts are dated from 2013, you have a real problem with comprehension of how data is gathered and analyzed.

 

[toeskr]

And for anyone who wants a different perspective on the impact of the Trump tax cuts on the deficit, also using CBO data, there's this:

Tax cuts, spending to raise U.S. deficit to $1 trillion by 2020, CBO analysis shows

The combined effect of President Donald Trump's tax cuts and last month's budget-busting spending bill is sending the federal deficit toward the $1 trillion mark next year, according to a new analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.

The CBO report says the nation's $21 trillion debt would spike to more than $33 trillion in 10 years, with debt held by investors spiking to levels that would come close to equaling the size of the economy, reaching levels that many economists fear could spark a debt crisis.

Damn Oreo, ya on roll now.

Get er done.

Tell your ma I said hello.

 

[HisArpy]

And for anyone who wants a different perspective on the impact of the Trump tax cuts on the deficit, also using CBO data, there's this:

Tax cuts, spending to raise U.S. deficit to $1 trillion by 2020, CBO analysis shows

The combined effect of President Donald Trump's tax cuts and last month's budget-busting spending bill is sending the federal deficit toward the $1 trillion mark next year, according to a new analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.

The CBO report says the nation's $21 trillion debt would spike to more than $33 trillion in 10 years, with debt held by investors spiking to levels that would come close to equaling the size of the economy, reaching levels that many economists fear could spark a debt crisis.

Now you're just grasping at straws and hoping to selectively edit and quote to make a non-existent point.

The GDP is projected to grow in excess of 4.5%. I provided a source for that. The level necessary to offset the trump TAX CUTS is 4.5%. I also provided a source for that.

YOU, on the other hand seem to think that the deficit is ONLY because of the tax cuts. Yet I provided a source to show that the deficit is made up of a combination of things, including past spending.

When you put all of that together, the PAST SPENDING is what is going to cause the deficit to grow because the tax cuts are being offset by GDP growth. The deficit will grow because we still don't have sufficient revenues to pay for them. It will continue to grow until Congress gets it shit together and STOPS SPENDING.

At this point I hope I've made my point because I have to go do some work.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Maybe you can point to where in the Vox article you seem to think it's saying what you're saying. Because it looks like it's saying this:

As this classic 2013 chart from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities shows, the Bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the economic downturn accounted for basically all of the deficit by Obama’s second term in office, with the Bush tax cuts driving the lion’s share:

It is no longer 2013, and spending increases approved under both Trump and Obama, as well as Trump’s tax cuts, have together expanded the deficit beyond what the above projections show. But it nonetheless functions as an important account of how we got to this point.

 

[toeskr]

Oh, the good old days.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Now you're just grasping at straws and hoping to selectively edit and quote to make a non-existent point.

The GDP is projected to grow in excess of 4.5%. I provided a source for that. The level necessary to offset the trump TAX CUTS is 4.5%. I also provided a source for that.

YOU, on the other hand seem to think that the deficit is ONLY because of the tax cuts. Yet I provided a source to show that the deficit is made up of a combination of things, including past spending.

When you put all of that together, the PAST SPENDING is what is going to cause the deficit to grow because the tax cuts are being offset by GDP growth. The deficit will grow because we still don't have sufficient revenues to pay for them. It will continue to grow until Congress gets it shit together and STOPS SPENDING.

At this point I hope I've made my point because I have to go do some work.

The problem is you're using old data that was employed in one context for a different purpose. It's a dishonest use of CBO data, and it cannot possibly say what you want it to say. I've provided a link to what current CBO analysis says, which includes the effect of Trump's policies, which you dismissed out of hand. That's on you.

 

[toeskr]

The problem is you're using old data that was employed in one context for a different purpose. It's a dishonest use of CBO data, and it cannot possibly say what you want it to say. I've provided a link to what current CBO analysis says, which includes the effect of Trump's policies, which you dismissed out of hand. That's on you.

Where's the link to your original handle? Is that provided?

Asking for a friend.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Where's the link to your original handle? Is that provided?

Asking for a friend.

I was Chancellor Palpatine before this. I'll let you do your own search(es), creeper.

 

[jomar]

The problem is you're using old data that was employed in one context for a different purpose. It's a dishonest use of CBO data, and it cannot possibly say what you want it to say. I've provided a link to what current CBO analysis says, which includes the effect of Trump's policies, which you dismissed out of hand. That's on you.

HisArpy is basically saying you don't have to factor in Trump's policies because the sustained GDP growth of 4.5% will pay for Trumps debt increase, but we still have to find revenue to pay the old stuff down.

I don't think economists see a sustained 4.5% growth.

 

[von_Bismarck]

HisArpy is basically saying you don't have to factor in Trump's policies because the sustained GDP growth of 4.5% will pay for Trumps debt increase, but we still have to find revenue to pay the old stuff down.

I don't think economists see a sustained 4.5% growth.

Right. In fact, I have yet to see a single reputable source project sustained 4.5% GDP growth annually.

 

[toeskr]

I was Chancellor Palpatine before this. I'll let you do your own search(es), creeper.

And before that you were?

And before that you were?

You are not very original, sorry.

 

[von_Bismarck]

And before that you were?

And before that you were?

You are not very original, sorry.

How is changing names a mark of unoriginality?

 

[eruditeaphrodite]

Apologize for a President who can actually tell the truth, instead of spew lies?

 

[Stain_mAnn]

And for anyone who wants a different perspective on the impact of the Trump tax cuts on the deficit, also using CBO data, there's this:

Tax cuts, spending to raise U.S. deficit to $1 trillion by 2020, CBO analysis shows

The combined effect of President Donald Trump's tax cuts and last month's budget-busting spending bill is sending the federal deficit toward the $1 trillion mark next year, according to a new analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.

The CBO report says the nation's $21 trillion debt would spike to more than $33 trillion in 10 years, with debt held by investors spiking to levels that would come close to equaling the size of the economy, reaching levels that many economists fear could spark a debt crisis.

#MAGA