How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[EternalFantasies]

He didn't necessarily say that.

John 8:48: "Before Abraham was, I AM".





Make sure the 'AM' part is both emboldened and double underlined in your heart when you read it. Edit: bigger font too. Much.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

You just told us that the Psalms were written before crucifixion was invented.

It was. That's the point. It describes crucifixion before it was even invented because it was a prophecy and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[phrodeau]

It was. That's the point. It describes crucifixion before it was even invented because it was a prophecy and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Nobody can say for sure what the original words were in Psalm 22:16. The Hebrew word for "pierced" does not appear in any manuscript. Another word is used, and was apparently misspelled or poorly written.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_have_pierced_my_hands_and_my_feet

Besides all that, piercing someone's hands and feet is a loooong way from crucifixion. Psalm 22 does not describe crucifixion in any way.

 

[cowslinger64]

It was. That's the point. It describes crucifixion before it was even invented because it was a prophecy and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit inspired crucifixion? Are you freaking kidding me?

That's even more ridiculous than you having spells cast upon you over the internet.

Do you go to botanydummys church where you just sit around and get high?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Nobody can say for sure what the original words were in Psalm 22:16. The Hebrew word for "pierced" does not appear in any manuscript. Another word is used, and was apparently misspelled or poorly written.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_have_pierced_my_hands_and_my_feet

Besides all that, piercing someone's hands and feet is a loooong way from crucifixion. Psalm 22 does not describe crucifixion in any way.

Is that really your excuse? Well, look at this other prophecy of Christ from His 2nd coming written hundreds of years before His first coming:

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[phrodeau]

Is that really your excuse? Well, look at this other prophecy of Christ from His 2nd coming written hundreds of years before His first coming:

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

So which is “me” and which is “him”? Are they both supposed to be Jesus? First Jesus and Second Jesus?

 

[Tryharder62]

So which is “me” and which is “him”? Are they both supposed to be Jesus? First Jesus and Second Jesus?

There is a distinction between the person pierced and Jehovah.

Carl Friedrich Keil and Franz Delitzsch note, “. . . the transition from the first person (alay) to the third (alayv) points to the fact that the person slain, although essentially one with Jehovah, is personally distinct from the Supreme God.”

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

So which is “me” and which is “him”? Are they both supposed to be Jesus? First Jesus and Second Jesus?

Both are true simultaneously. You know that Jesus Christ IS the Jehovah of the Old Testament don't you? Yes, they are both Jesus. Do you know where Jesus went after His resurrection?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Jesus Christ IS Jehovah of the OT. He admits it in scripture by claiming to be the "I Am" which God told Moses His name was "I Am" on mount Sinai.

 

[phrodeau]

Jesus Christ IS Jehovah of the OT. He admits it in scripture by claiming to be the "I Am" which God told Moses His name was "I Am" on mount Sinai.

Then why does Jesus/Jehovah refer to Jesus/Jehovah as "him"? Is He confused, or is He deliberately trying to confuse you?

 

[Tryharder62]

Then why does Jesus/Jehovah refer to Jesus/Jehovah as "him"? Is He confused, or is He deliberately trying to confuse you?

You never believe me^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^above.

Carl Friedrich Keil and Franz Delitzsch note, “. . . the transition from the first person (alay) to the third (alayv) points to the fact that the person slain, although essentially one with Jehovah, is personally distinct from the Supreme God.”

 

[phrodeau]

You never believe me^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^above.

Carl Friedrich Keil and Franz Delitzsch note, “. . . the transition from the first person (alay) to the third (alayv) points to the fact that the person slain, although essentially one with Jehovah, is personally distinct from the Supreme God.”

That’s an interpretation. I say that “me whom they have pierced” can only refer to one guy.

 

[Tryharder62]

That’s an interpretation. I say that “me whom they have pierced” can only refer to one guy.

You are right but when they go from me to him in the verse:

and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son,

They are distinqishing Jesus from God.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Both are true simultaneously. You know that Jesus Christ IS the Jehovah of the Old Testament don't you? Yes, they are both Jesus. Do you know where Jesus went after His resurrection?

NO.

Your I AM reference doesn't fit here like this.

He is essentially ONE with Him, yes; but he is NOT Him. Jehovah is God Father, Jesus is Son.

https://nellaishanmugam.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/trinity.gif

 

[phrodeau]

You are right but when they go from me to him in the verse:

and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son,

They are distinqishing Jesus from God.

But the pierced guy and the one mourned for are both Jesus, right?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Then why does Jesus/Jehovah refer to Jesus/Jehovah as "him"? Is He confused, or is He deliberately trying to confuse you?

Jesus role is to direct us to worship God, although He Himself is God. He is our example. He's not confused. He just chooses to refer to Himself in the 3rd person much of the time. He also directs us to the Father. He is clear in Scripture that He is the Great "I AM" who spoke to Moses on Mt. Sinai.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

But the pierced guy and the one mourned for are both Jesus, right?

Yes. I believe so.

 

[Tryharder62]

But the pierced guy and the one mourned for are both Jesus, right?

I think it is interesting that me and him were used. I think the me is Jesus but the Him denotes his place in the trinity. Yes they both mean Jesus but they will answer for what they did to the full power of the Trinity.(God)

The complete fulfillment of this verse awaits the last days when the Jewish people will plead for mercy from the One they have pierced.

I like Eternal's graphic.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

NO.

Your I AM reference doesn't fit here like this.

He is essentially ONE with Him, yes; but he is NOT Him. Jehovah is God Father, Jesus is Son.

https://nellaishanmugam.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/trinity.gif

The diagram doesn't prove anything. It is just an opinion. God is not put in a box.

Who is I AM in the OT? God.

Who did Jesus claim to be? I AM

Jesus IS the Father, but yes God does manifest in three persons. They are equal and they are all one. Not saying I understand it fully, but the Bible is clear that Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead Bodily.

Jesus is the Father:

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus is called "The Everlasting Father"

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead bodily:

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[EternalFantasies]

The diagram doesn't prove anything. It is just an opinion. God is not put in a box.

Wrong. That's the doctrine of the Trinity, not an opinion.

Who is I AM in the OT? God.

Yes, but that is not the point. Which in the Trinity is my point.

Who did Jesus claim to be? I AM

Jesus IS the Father, but yes God does manifest in three persons. They are equal and they are all one.

No. Jesus recited the Our Father with everyone, and looked up many times and spoke to the Father.

Not saying I understand it fully

Correct.

Jesus is the Father:

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

The verses do not prove your claim.

Jesus is called "The Everlasting Father"

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead bodily:

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

In Him dwelleth that fullness is not the same as 'he is that'.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Wrong. That's the doctrine of the Trinity, not an opinion.

No, the Trinity exists, but that diagram isn't necessarily an accurate representation of the Trinity.

Yes, but that is not the point. Which in the Trinity is my point.

Well, what I am saying is that "I AM" is Jehovah. Jesus Christ is Jehovah.

No. Jesus recited the Our Father with everyone, and looked up many times and spoke to the Father.

The Bible says otherwise and you will see in the verses I provided.


Correct.

Thanks



The verses do not prove your claim.

Yes they do. Jesus just said that He who has seen Him has see the Father. Then He scolded Him for asking to see the Father. Why would that be?


In Him dwelleth that fullness is not the same as 'he is that'.

Yes it is. Fullness mean ALL. All of what? The Godhead bodily. Jesus is an outward view of God bodily.

My response is in bold above.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

HAVE SODOM AND GOMORRAH BEEN FOUND?

http://www.wnd.com/2017/11/have-sodom-and-gomorrah-been-found/

 

[phrodeau]

HAVE SODOM AND GOMORRAH BEEN FOUND?

http://www.wnd.com/2017/11/have-sodom-and-gomorrah-been-found/

According to Jude 1:7, "Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

So unless those cities are still burning, they can't be Sodom or Gomorrah. Sorry.

 

[Tryharder62]

According to Jude 1:7, "Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

So unless those cities are still burning, they can't be Sodom or Gomorrah. Sorry.

I think eternal fire means hell. You know, eternity....smoking or non-smoking.

 

[phrodeau]

I think eternal fire means hell. You know, eternity....smoking or non-smoking.

How is committing cities to hell supposed to be an example for others? Can you verify that those cities are in hell, or that hell even exists?

Genesis 19:23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

Sure sounds like standard combustion and pyrotechnics to me.