Private industry bleeding taxpayers dry

[someoneyouknow]

$4 billion. That's how much taxpayer money is being spent to get Foxconn, the company who makes Apple iPhones, to come to Wisconsin. That includes tax breaks, tax incentive, infrastructure spending, land purchases and other assorted goodies. This before the company even breaks ground.

Based on this figure, it will take almost thirty years for Wisconsin to recoup all that lost tax money.

Even better, the initial estimate by the state for Foxconn to hire 13,000 seemed, to put it mildly, overly optimistic. Foxconn has said it is only committed to hiring 3,000 people, which means that thirty year estimate to get back that lost taxpayer money is out the window.

But hey, at least the company isn't leeching off the taxpayers like those government workers such as Scott Walker.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/28/news/companies/foxconn-wisconsin-incentive-package/index.html

 

[BotanyBoy]

Foxconn wasn't the one who forced everyone into paying for this under penalty of law.

Looks like it's the government who's bleeding the taxpayer out to me.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Looks like it's the government who's bleeding the taxpayer out to me.

Yes, Republicans have a way of embracing fascism.

 

[mark_j]

Yes, Republicans have a way of embracing fascism.

OMG.......FASCISM...Better hide before they come and take you off to the extermination camps.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes, Republicans have a way of embracing fascism.

How do you figure?


Definition of fascism
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

Britannica says the same shit but the long winded version.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism.

Nationalism is about all you guys got on them......and it's barely even that, more like basic patriotism as opposed to the lefts total hatred of everything that is USA.

 

[Hypoxia]

OMG.......FASCISM...Better hide before they come and take you off to the extermination camps.

Benito Mussolini, who invented the shit, defined 'fascism' as the ownership of gov't by corporations. Y'know, the Gup platform.

 

[DawnODay]

$4 billion. That's how much taxpayer money is being spent to get Foxconn, the company who makes Apple iPhones, to come to Wisconsin. That includes tax breaks, tax incentive, infrastructure spending, land purchases and other assorted goodies. This before the company even breaks ground.

Based on this figure, it will take almost thirty years for Wisconsin to recoup all that lost tax money.

Even better, the initial estimate by the state for Foxconn to hire 13,000 seemed, to put it mildly, overly optimistic. Foxconn has said it is only committed to hiring 3,000 people, which means that thirty year estimate to get back that lost taxpayer money is out the window.

But hey, at least the company isn't leeching off the taxpayers like those government workers such as Scott Walker.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/28/news/companies/foxconn-wisconsin-incentive-package/index.html

As a Wisconsinite myself, I can tell you that you know not of what you write. Please review this short thread. As you will find there, your analysis is based on several fallacies.

First, to see this as Wisconsin giving away anything, you have to assume Foxconn would have come to Wisconsin even without the tax incentives. It is quite clear that Foxconn would not have come to Wisconsin but for these tax credits. Ohio offered far more than $3 billion, but Foxconn picked Wisconsin because it is a Right to Work state and Ohio is not. Several other states also bid for the plant, but Wisconsin had the best mix of qualities. The $3 billion was a big part of that.

As I have pointed out previously elsewhere here and here, it's not that Wisconsin is giving $3 billion dollars to Foxconn. These are mostly tax credits and waivers on taxes Wisconsin would not have collected anyway had Foxconn not come. Any economic development and resultant revenue as a result of the Foxconn deal (which includes that from the contractors who build and later service the $10 billion plant) is revenue that would not have come in without the Foxconn deal, so it begins reaping benefits, including positive revenues, from the first day a shovel hits soil.

Furthermore, Foxconn has to meet certain benchmarks before receiving these tax benefits. For example, to receive the $1.65 billion capital investment tax credit, Foxconn has to build a $10 billion plant to certain specifications. The tax revenue from subcontractors and their employees in building that plant will more than offset the tax credit, so by the time the plant is completed and the tax credit applied, Wisconsin will still have put itself in a revenue positive position.

Likewise, to receive and retain the $1.5 billion connected to job creation, they actually have to have reached 6,500 jobs by 2024, and maintain that level through 2032. If they have not hit 6,500 by the deadline, or do not maintain that for the rest of the contract, then not only do they receive no more tax credits, they have to pay back the earlier ones they did receive.

This is all structured this way so that Wisconsin is still in a revenue positive position even as it cuts the amount of taxes Foxconn pays. At no point will the amount of tax credits available to Foxconn exceed the revenue necessarily generated by it meeting the quotas that qualify it for those credits.

Let's put it in simple terms. One of three things can happen:

1) Foxconn backs out of the deal (which seems quite unlikely now), in which case Wisconsin is not on the hook for any of the incentives;

2) Foxconn develops the $10 billion factory, but does not meet the employment quotas, in which case Wisconsin will have received more in revenues from the economic activities of building the factory than the $1.65 billion capital investment credit it will pay Foxconn over time, and it will owe nothing for the employment incentives;

3) Foxconn develops the $10 billion factory, and does meet the employment quotas, in which case Wisconsin will have received more in revenues from the economic activities of building the factory than the $1.65 billion capital investment credit it will pay Foxconn over time, and will have received more in revenues from the economic activities in the staffing of the factory than the $1.5 billion employment incentives it will pay Foxconn over time.​

In none of these scenarios is there any negative revenue impact to Wisconsin. It won't take any time for Wisconsin "to recoup all that lost tax money." No tax money will have been lost. True, we won't get as much in taxes from Foxconn itself, but there would be no development at all if the deal had not been made. It is a revenue positive deal at all stages. None of that revenue would have come in except for the incentives.

Foxconn wasn't the one who forced everyone into paying for this under penalty of law.

Looks like it's the government who's bleeding the taxpayer out to me.

I'm surprised at you, BB, for conceding, and incorrectly, the point. You know better.

 

[someoneyouknow]

As a Wisconsinite myself, I can tell you that you know not of what you write. As you will find there, your analysis is based on several fallacies.

It's not my analysis. It's the analysis of those who were quoting Walker and his people.

First, to see this as Wisconsin giving away anything, you have to assume Foxconn would have come to Wisconsin even without the tax incentives.

Which is exactly the point. Foxconn is leeching off the taxpayers.

It Wisconsin is giving $3 billion dollars to Foxconn. These are mostly tax credits and waivers on taxes Wisconsin would not have collected anyway had Foxconn not come.

Again, Foxconn leeching off the taxpayers. Since Foxconn isn't paying those taxes, guess who gets to make up the difference?

i t begins reaping benefits, including positive revenues, from the first day a shovel hits soil.

Didn't read what the article said, did you? It will take 30 years to recover all the lost taxpayer money, but that was based on the Walker administration's projection of 13,000 jobs. However, Foxconn has said they only have plans for 3,000 jobs.

The tax revenue from subcontractors and their employees in building that plant will more than offset the tax credit, so by the time the plant is completed and the tax credit applied, Wisconsin will still have put itself in a revenue positive position.

See above

Likewise, to receive and retain the $1.5 billion connected to job creation, they actually have to have reached 6,500 jobs by 2024, and maintain that level through 2032.

Again, see above.

This is all structured this way so that Wisconsin is still in a revenue positive position even as it cuts the amount of taxes Foxconn pays.

Uh huh. And trickle down economics will give the workers a pay increase.

This same argument has been used time and again when it comes to football or baseball stadiums. Al that "economic activity" will make up for the lost tax revenue. Except it doesn't. Study after study has shown at best, cities which have these stadiums break even.

That companies such as Foxconn tell the taxpayer to pony up or else proves the point they leech off taxpayers. If an area is that good, has that much people willing to work, there shouldn't be a need to be given billions of taxpayer dollars. They would do so because it makes economic sense.

Instead, money is continually poured down the black hole of fascism and when things don't work out like everyone said it would, they look around and wonder what happened.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Benito Mussolini, who invented the shit, defined 'fascism' as the ownership of gov't by corporations. Y'know, the Gup platform.

Unfortunately for you Mussolini did NOT invent the shit nor does he get to define it. I posted the actual definitions just before you put your derp on display in case you feel like alleviating yourself of just a tiny smidgen of ignorance.

And it's not anymore the Gup platform than the Dumz platform.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7b/e9/1f/7be91fc08acde46fe39f9e662b395e3f.jpg

Instead, money is continually poured down the black hole of fascism and when things don't work out like everyone said it would, they look around and wonder what happened.

It's not fascism, you need to read about what fascism is as badly as Hypoxia.

Corporatocracy=/=Fascism.

And we don't even have a corporatocracy either...just some tendencies because greedy pol's who can NEVER be fired.

I'm surprised at you, BB, for conceding, and incorrectly, the point. You know better.

Conceding what point and how is it incorrect?

It's Wisconsin government picking and choosing winners.....it's fuckin welfare for uber-corp....welfare for the rich.....point blank.

 

[about_average]

Didn't read what the article said, did you? It will take 30 years to recover all the lost taxpayer money, but that was based on the Walker administration's projection of 13,000 jobs. However, Foxconn has said they only have plans for 3,000 jobs.

Nothing new. Studies repeatedly show tax credits to bring in companies rarely are off-set by increased tax review. For one thing, most analysis only looks at the expense of the tax credit, ignoring all the other municipal expenses like schools, roads, police and fire and all the rest.

 

[someoneyouknow]

200 more jobs from the Carrier plant in Indiana being sent to Mexico. After the taxpayers coughed up millions of dollars.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carrier-plant-in-indiana-that-played-role-in-trump-election-sheds-another-200-workers-2018-01-11

 

[phrodeau]

200 more jobs from the Carrier plant in Indiana being sent to Mexico. After the taxpayers coughed up millions of dollars.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carrier-plant-in-indiana-that-played-role-in-trump-election-sheds-another-200-workers-2018-01-11

I blame Pence.

 

[Hypoxia]

I blame Pence.

Thrupence, dupence, or nopence?

I blame dollars.

 

[phrodeau]

Thrupence, dupence, or nopence?

I blame dollars.

Pence got Indiana to allow millions of dollars in incentives to Carrier, who promptly automated their facilities.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Pence got Indiana to allow millions of dollars in incentives to Carrier, who promptly automated their facilities.

And thus lying about keeping all those jobs in America.

 

[Hypoxia]

And thus lying about keeping all those jobs in America.

Those are alternative facts, not lies. Ask Sanders.

 

[KUJACK]

Hmm,let's see

Foxxcon agrees to build a plant and invests 10 billion
Wisconsin, agrees not to tax Foxxcon and bring ar least 3000 to 10,000 jobs to the State
Exactly how does this steal from taxpayers?

 

[someoneyouknow]

Foxxcon agrees to build a plant and invests 10 billion
Wisconsin, agrees not to tax Foxxcon and bring ar least 3000 to 10,000 jobs to the State
Exactly how does this steal from taxpayers?

Wisconsin taxpayers are on the hook for $4 billion to get everything ready.
Foxconn won't pay taxes for some period of time, thus the taxpayers have to pick up the tab.
Wisconsin's own report says it will take 30 years for the money it's spent to bring Foxconn to the state to be repaid (but only if all the jobs arrive). That means during that time, the taxpayers will be paying, again, for everything they've already paid for.
Further, Foxconn will not be subject to strict pollution controls. Guess who picks up the tab if anything goes wrong?

 

[KUJACK]

Wisconsin taxpayers are on the hook for $4 billion to get everything ready.
Foxconn won't pay taxes for some period of time, thus the taxpayers have to pick up the tab.
Wisconsin's own report says it will take 30 years for the money it's spent to bring Foxconn to the state to be repaid (but only if all the jobs arrive). That means during that time, the taxpayers will be paying, again, for everything they've already paid for.
Further, Foxconn will not be subject to strict pollution controls. Guess who picks up the tab if anything goes wrong?

Wisconsin is not really giving Foxconn anything
It's just not taxing them for coming to Wisconsin

 

[phrodeau]

I wonder which get the better deal in Wisconsin, Foxconn or the Lutheran Church.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Wisconsin is not really giving Foxconn anything
It's just not taxing them for coming to Wisconsin

Even if that is the case, I’m not sure it is...... the left considers not crushing a he rich an assault on everyone else.

Keping your money is a loss to the state, and there is nothing they hate more than that.