Discouraged

[Arthur_J_Cummings]

Editors, yes I could use a whole herd of editors to aid me in my writing. I have little to no clue how to proof read effectively, or edit a story to make it perfect. Sadly I have little to no money for an editor and a little shy at trying to 'free' editors on here.

Trying to learn how to do all of this on my own is troublesome and I am struggling.

 

[rjordan]

I guess the reason it annoys me is if 'anonymous' is a writer him/herself I'd like to know that so I have the opportunity to see if he/she knows wtf they are talking about, or if it's a case of a know-it-all who can't write their way out of a paper bag.

They're anonymous because they don't think it's anyone's business.

Consider the comments you can use. Ignore the rest.

rj

 

[rjordan]

Trying to learn how to do all of this on my own is troublesome and I am struggling.

Dollar Tree is hiring. Far less stressful. You only need to learn one price, and they teach you that.

rj

 

[ChloeTzang]

Editors, yes I could use a whole herd of editors to aid me in my writing. I have little to no clue how to proof read effectively, or edit a story to make it perfect. Sadly I have little to no money for an editor and a little shy at trying to 'free' editors on here.

Trying to learn how to do all of this on my own is troublesome and I am struggling.

Struggle is what it's all about. It's not easy and there's no quick fix except to write. Write and write and write and study and study and study and read and read and read. If you want to improve, do all that. Thriftbooks are your friend and there's a lot of books on different aspects of writing available. Editing's not a big deal until you have your first draft done anyhow. Just focus on the next step and don't worry about what comes after until you need to if that's something that concerns you.

Just write your first story and post it on Literotica. Doesn't matter how bad, you're started. Take that first step. Until you do that, you're dreaming about writing, you're not writing. 90% of wannabe writers never get past that dream stage. I read that somewhere a couple of years ago and my partner kicked by butt and said "do it," and I did. And my first stories weren't that great and my editing sucks and my plots are pretty weak but hey, my story won that April Fools competition so if I can do that in two years, you can if you work at it because believe me, I am no natural born writer. I work at it.

So get yourself past that dreaming, post it here so people can read it and you're already in the top 10% of wannabe's. Then come back and ask, "what's next." You'l get plenty of advice. You might not like all of it (I know I don't sometimes, but I take it in and think about it regardless) - but you'll get it.

So. Arthur. Go. Start. Writing.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Editors, yes I could use a whole herd of editors to aid me in my writing. I have little to no clue how to proof read effectively, or edit a story to make it perfect. Sadly I have little to no money for an editor and a little shy at trying to 'free' editors on here.

Trying to learn how to do all of this on my own is troublesome and I am struggling.

I am not any professional editor, nor am I one of the group of volunteer editors. However, I will agree to look over the first story you write. You can email it to me. I am not allowed to tell you my address on this forum, but you can send it to me through my index page.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I guess the reason it annoys me is if 'anonymous' is a writer him/herself I'd like to know that so I have the opportunity to see if he/she knows wtf they are talking about, or if it's a case of a know-it-all who can't write their way out of a paper bag.

You would know that from the nature of the comment, I would have thought.

There are some self-appointed "I'm your best critic" over in the Feedback Forum who you read and say, really? Opinionistas who prescribe "that the best writing follows this rule..." Really?

But I also see writers complaining about anon attacks, go read their stuff out of curiosity, and come away thinking - well, if you got your basics right (grammar, punctuation, tense, spell-check) you'd avoid that shit. Where there's smoke...

 

[KindofHere]

................

 

[Arthur_J_Cummings]

Been there, done the whole retail thing and still shocked I didn't splatter my own brains while doing that. Still struggling is part of what life is. If I wasn't struggling would I be alive? Is it not the fire that forges us into our very being? Is it not the sun light to which the plant of inspiration grows?

I know I sound like I am bellying aching but that is sadly part of me just trying to get my ass in gear and a little pat on the back tends to help.

As for the cocaine comment let me say this.

I'm too ugly to prostitute and too crazy to work a normal job! ;P

Chleo, thank you for the kind words and the hope you are giving me. It is truly acting as the glowing beacon in my darkness of despair and I have uploaded a story to here. It isn't very good and is one of the first stories I ever wrote with hopes of publishing it. (Maybe one day I can tweak it and do that)

Now is the time I take my own advice, drink a beer and flick off the trolls before moving forward. Until the next stop at self doubt and worries.

 

[tomlitilia]

Sure, it can be annoying with shitty comments. I also just had someone 1-bomb all my stories after not liking a LW story. Can be tempting to avoid topics that attract trolls. But then they get what they want.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Sure, it can be annoying with shitty comments. I also just had someone 1-bomb all my stories after not liking a LW story. Can be tempting to avoid topics that attract trolls. But then they get what they want.

Been there done that with Loving Wives and have the trolls to prove it. Lol. Haven't posted anything there for a while. Must be time for another instalment of Happy Birthday to Me. Get them all wound up for Christmas.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Been there done that with Loving Wives and have the trolls to prove it. Lol. Haven't posted anything there for a while. Must be time for another instalment of Happy Birthday to Me. Get them all wound up for Christmas.

Chloe, you know you shouldn't tease!

 

[Arthur_J_Cummings]

Just had my first encounter with trolls and well just flat out rude people. I must say it is an eye opening experience. Fairly easy to fall into their little trap but screw them. I know I am lacking in the grammar department. (I hate English Grammar, hell even Latin grammar structure was easier to understand and that is a dead language.)

Anyways, just means more room for improvement and time to grow tougher skin.

P.S

Anyone here able to recommend a good creative writing grammar book or youtube series?

 

[oggbashan]

...

P.S

Anyone here able to recommend a good creative writing grammar book or youtube series?

Just look through the How-To category. There are hundreds of essays giving good advice (and some not so good!).

 

[SimonDoom]

Just had my first encounter with trolls and well just flat out rude people. I must say it is an eye opening experience. Fairly easy to fall into their little trap but screw them. I know I am lacking in the grammar department. (I hate English Grammar, hell even Latin grammar structure was easier to understand and that is a dead language.)

Anyways, just means more room for improvement and time to grow tougher skin.

P.S

Anyone here able to recommend a good creative writing grammar book or youtube series?

Oggbashan's advice is good. Start with the free resources on this site. There are some good short articles that advise authors about the most common mistakes in grammar and punctuation.

A decent short grammar book is The Elements of Grammar by Margaret Scherzer.

I'm not aware of a grammar guide that focuses specifically on creative writing. There may be one; I just don't know what it is. At this stage, though, I wouldn't worry too much about the focus of the grammar guide; just choose something that's simple enough that you can get through it and get something out of it.

 

[rjordan]

Just had my first encounter with trolls and well just flat out rude people. I must say it is an eye opening experience. Fairly easy to fall into their little trap but screw them. I know I am lacking in the grammar department. (I hate English Grammar, hell even Latin grammar structure was easier to understand and that is a dead language.)

Anyways, just means more room for improvement and time to grow tougher skin.

P.S

Anyone here able to recommend a good creative writing grammar book or youtube series?

In another recent thread, I brought up Grammarly, a free grammar/spell checker. Some didn't think it would be suitable for creative writing. I think they're wrong.

https://app.grammarly.com/

I read your story. The problems you have with grammar and punctuation are not unique to fiction or creative writing. They're problems with basic English. I think Grammarly would help immensely because it would point right at each problem and give some advice. From that point, you know exactly what you need to look up in other references to learn the proper forms.

Keep in mind that any grammar checker marks things it thinks are incorrect. It's advice isn't absolute. If it red-lines something, research to see WHY it suspects a problem. There may not be one.

Trying to identify your own problems so you can look them up in books is much harder since you don't know what the problem is in the first place.

Grammarly also works on web applications. I left it installed and it is checking this post in real time. It doesn't work with Scrivener, the text editor I use, but if it did, I'd have it enabled.

It's free and it works at least as well as a non-professional proofreader or copy editor you might find on Lit. You're looking for improvement, not perfection at this point.

You can try it online without installing it. Copy and paste your story into it. You'll be terrified and amazed, but you'll have a solid starting point.

rj

 

[oggbashan]

Thanks rj for recommending Grammarly.

I've downloaded and installed it. At first it went ballistic because it was set to American English. I set it to British English. I tried it on my story Christmas Truce. It found 76 critical issues. I went through them all and disagreed with Grammarly 74 times, thought the recommendation was a possible improvement one time, and accepted that it had found a typo once.

But I found it useful to make me think WHY I was using the word or construction when Grammarly queried it.

Edited for PS. I checked one issue with my wife (a retired language teacher) and the OED. I had typed the word as 'balk' - to refuse to do something. Grammarly suggested it should be 'baulk'. Balk is 'mainly US usage' and 'baulk' is British. But mainly means that balk can be used with that spelling in British English.

PPS. Grammarly found four issues with this post.

 

[Arthur_J_Cummings]

I just downloaded Grammarly and let it check over one of my stories. Found 2 dozen common errors and over 90 Advanced issues, but I lack the spare change to upgrade and even then I question how much bang for my buck I would get from it.

Still my grammar issues are now starting to trouble me and I am finding myself growing annoyed at my own lack of knowledge and lack of knowing just where to obtain said knowledge.

 

[oggbashan]

I just downloaded Grammarly and let it check over one of my stories. Found 2 dozen common errors and over 90 Advanced issues, but I lack the spare change to upgrade and even then I question how much bang for my buck I would get from it.

Still my grammar issues are now starting to trouble me and I am finding myself growing annoyed at my own lack of knowledge and lack of knowing just where to obtain said knowledge.

Don't bother with the Advanced Grammarly. What the free version does will help. The Advanced version would just confuse you.

But again - I suggest looking at Literotica's How-to section and reading some of them.

PS Grammarly only found one issue with the quote of your post so your grammar can't be that bad.

 

[Arthur_J_Cummings]

Thank you Ogg. Still my grammar is poor and I am noticing it a bit more now that I am reading my stories out loud.

I will be sitting down and reading more of the how to threads when I have a bit more time. Till then I will continue to write.

 

[rjordan]

But I found it useful to make me think WHY I was using the word or construction when Grammarly queried it.

This is key and why I disagree with those who say it isn't useful for creative writing. It makes you stop and think about why you used something non-standard. A real editor would probably question your choice as well. You would then decide for yourself whether to accept their advice or reject it. It's always the writer's choice in the end. (Except when dealing with a publishing house. Then they write the checks so they decide.)

PPS. Grammarly found four issues with this post.

See. And we'd be none the wiser.

rj

 

[ElectricBlue]

Thank you Ogg. Still my grammar is poor and I am noticing it a bit more now that I am reading my stories out loud.

I will be sitting down and reading more of the how to threads when I have a bit more time. Till then I will continue to write.

Be careful you don't learn to write badly. Sounds to me that you might need to ground yourself in the basics -

2 dozen common errors and over 90 Advanced issues,

- but in how many words? 2 dozen common errors in total, or 2 dozen repeatedly? In a thousand words, or in ten thousand?

There's typos and poor grammar, in my experience. We all get typos (and we all spot them as soon as the story goes live), but we all should all give ourselves a good grounding in basic grammar at least. No point teaching yourself bad habits, they're so much harder to un-learn.

 

[oggbashan]

...

- but in how many words? 2 dozen common errors in total, or 2 dozen repeatedly? In a thousand words, or in ten thousand?

There's typos and poor grammar, in my experience. We all get typos (and we all spot them as soon as the story goes live), but we all should all give ourselves a good grounding in basic grammar at least. No point teaching yourself bad habits, they're so much harder to un-learn.

Grammarly found 76 critical errors in 9,999 words of mine. As I said above I disagreed with 74 (corrected to 73) of those.

Of that 73, at least 25 would have added commas I consider unnecessary and intrusive. Many of the rest would have made my writing less intelligible because Grammarly was trying to correct meaning to something I didn't intend and correcting dialogue that isn't always perfectly grammatical.

But in the quote? Grammarly correctly says that 'there's' is incorrect. It should read 'there are' before 'typos and poor grammar'.

 

[rjordan]

I just downloaded Grammarly and let it check over one of my stories. Found 2 dozen common errors and over 90 Advanced issues, but I lack the spare change to upgrade and even then I question how much bang for my buck I would get from it.

Still my grammar issues are now starting to trouble me and I am finding myself growing annoyed at my own lack of knowledge and lack of knowing just where to obtain said knowledge.

I agree with Ogg. You don't need the Advanced version. It has no real value that I can see unless you are self-publishing without aid of a professional editor. You aren't.

At this point, you're looking for improvement. Grammarly (free version) will help with that.

Your frustration with your lack of knowledge is counterproductive and becoming irksome. The knowledge you need is readily available by extensive reading of other's work and extensive writing of your own.

Writing is a difficult process. No book, youtube video, software program is going to give you shit. They will help you, but you have to do the work. Learning comes in steps. It isn't a linear process. Baseball players talk of being in a slump. You'll sit on a plateau learning nothing at all, then, boom, you jump a step in the process. Expect it. It's how our brains work.

You have the tools. You have a starting point. Time to STFU and WRITE something. Anything.

rj

 

[ElectricBlue]

But in the quote? Grammarly correctly says that 'there's' is incorrect. It should read 'there are' before 'typos and poor grammar'.

Quite right. Oops. I'll claim that as a typo

Or colloquial...

Grammar fail, lol.

 

[oggbashan]

Quite right. Oops. I'll claim that as a typo

That's one of the things I'm finding with Grammarly. Most of my typos get picked up by Word, but Grammarly finds those that would seem correct but are not when taken in context.