How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[jaF0]

Prayer is nothing more than conversation with yo' dam s'ef. Not all of it is about asking for things. Once you get to know yo' dam s'ef better you get to know ya' own damn plan better.

Fixed that for ya' cuz they ain't no damn god you stupid foo's!!!!

What the fuck is wrong with you idiots?????

 

[phrodeau]

Prayer is nothing more than conversation with god. Not all of it is about asking for things. Once you get to know God better you get to know his plan better.

There is no evidence of a plan whatsoever.

 

[Tryharder62]

I'd not have gone anyway. I was lazy and material enough to prefer San Francisco to a remote jungle compound.

If prayer doesn't produce desired results, why bother? Why not try tactics that work?

Prayer has failed a long-running test. Henry VIII's Church of England broke from papal authority in the 1530s; the monarch became the church's head. Since then, millions of CoE faithful have prayed nightly and weekly for the life of the monarch. If prayer worked, Brit monarchs would live significantly longer than the general population. This test has been running almost 500 years. Results: nope, no lifespan gain. Yes, a few have lived long. Most haven't.

I guess the answer to your long-running test depends on who is looking at the results. Could the monarchs have lived very short lives because of the stress of ruling and the diet they consumed?
Did they actually live an average length of life because of the prayers of the people? I don't worry about all that I guess. I just tell God the desires of my heart and trust he'll do the best thing according to his plan.

I'm all for doing things myself. In fact that's how I got my now husband's attention. I wouldn't let him carry my luggage. I told him that I would do it myself. Sometimes though you have to realize that it's okay to get by with some help from your friends.

Ok, and what conclusions were drawn from those verses?

I was just trying to show that God teaches us how to pray to him. We begin to know to ask him for things that are really important.

There is no evidence of a plan whatsoever.

Then you haven't read the end of the book. Not to be a spoiler.... but evil loses.

 

[Tryharder62]

Fixed that for ya' cuz they ain't no damn god you stupid foo's!!!!

What the fuck is wrong with you idiots?????

All I know is it's not indigestion

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

All I know is it's not indigestion

No, it is not indigestion. That's for sure.

 

[Hypoxia]

I guess the answer to your long-running test depends on who is looking at the results. Could the monarchs have lived very short lives because of the stress of ruling and the diet they consumed?
Did they actually live an average length of life because of the prayers of the people? I don't worry about all that I guess. I just tell God the desires of my heart and trust he'll do the best thing according to his plan.

Variables should not matter. Did prayer have a noticeable effect? For whatever technical reasons, millions of Xians praying over half a millennium for their monarch's longevity didn't produce miracles. Yes, with prayer, the answer is often NO. Or more likely we note the few supposed YES answers and forget the rest. Either way, it's not a reliable path to results. Bad engineering...

I'm reminded of a line by rather conservative John Milius in his screenplay for CONAN THE BARBARIAN. Conan, facing a deadly challenge, raises his sword and prays to his people's deity: "Crom, if you hear me, give my arm strength. And if you don't hear me, TO HELL WITH YOU!" That's a pragmatic approach. Deities who don't deliver reliably aren't much use. Why bother with a god who mostly says TOO BAD, DEAL WITH IT?

Lord {JHWH} didn't tell followers about sanitation, zero, germs, pi, America, etc. Sloppy...

Let's get real. Our minds won't be changed here. I won't convince you to lose your religion. You won't convince me to deal with supposed deities. We are here to politely exchange views. IMHO expressing views clarifies them. Good.

 

[Hypoxia]

There is no evidence of a plan whatsoever.

Then you haven't read the end of the book. Not to be a spoiler.... but evil loses.

The Imperial Wizards aka Church Fathers of the official church of the Roman Empire rather massively edited biblical texts to come up with the canonical standard. All the Hebrew scriptures were re-ordered into the Old Testament to tell a different tale. Many New Testament-era texts were shitcanned by those Imperial Wizards.

And "the end of the book" was added much later. I think back to the late 1960s when small high-quality portable tape recorders hit the market. Folks made bootleg tapes of concerts and issued them on vinyl. I had one great Rolling Stones bootleg from their 1969 USA tour, and many more abounded. So many concerts were bootlegged that the band was forced to release their own Official Version concert album.

That's the Apocalypse/Revelations story. Dozens of apocalyptic texts circulated in the late Imperial world. Many threatened the established church structure. The ruling Imperial Wizards, mostly from Roman senatorial / aristo families, chose one that fit their agenda. They produced an Official Bible, expunging the gospels of (doubting) Thomas and Saul/Paul's preaching partner Barnabas to make room for the psychedelic Apocalypse of John of Patmos.

As we say on the Story Ideas forum, "Hilarity ensued."

 

[jaF0]

As we say on the Story Ideas forum, "Hilarity ensued."

Or 'and that's when the fight started'.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Fixed that for ya' cuz they ain't no damn god you stupid foo's!!!!

What the f@#$ is wrong with you idiots?????

But there is a God and I know Him.

 

[Richard_P_Feynman]

But there is a God and I know Him.

Do you know Him Biblically?

Ba dum dum.

 

[ishtat]

Fixed that for ya' cuz they ain't no damn god you stupid foo's!!!!

What the fuck is wrong with you idiots?????

Hey jaFO, it's quite possible to disagree without being disagreeable. Mebbe try and quit yelling abuse. You're not gunna change Tryharders mind, and certainly not Xfrodos delusions so you might as well be civil.

 

[Hypoxia]

Hey jaFO, it's quite possible to disagree without being disagreeable.

He slopped hot oatmeal on his mom's keyboard. Hasn't wiped it off yet. Ewww...

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Hey jaFO, it's quite possible to disagree without being disagreeable. Mebbe try and quit yelling abuse. You're not gunna change Tryharders mind, and certainly not Xfrodos delusions so you might as well be civil.

Delusion isn't backed up by reality.

 

[phrodeau]

Delusion isn't backed up by reality.

Hey, that's what I said.

 

[Hypoxia]

Delusion isn't backed up by reality.

Except when it is.

I know the gods I carve are 'real' because I can hold their physical beings in my hands. I also know they're not real 'gods' because hey, I just carved the suckers. Any belief in their (un) reality, pro or con, could be delusional. But at least, as physical objects, they are more 'real' than the mental image of an unknowable deity.

 

[ishtat]

Have you read Julian of Norwich? She compared Jesus to a mother goddess.

Almost forgot this one. It's years since I read anything of Julian's work but she was a remarkable woman. Like so many medaevil thinkers she was obsessed with sin, but that did not prevent her having some remarkable insights. If I remember correctly she didn't actually compare Jesus to a mother Goddess she actually said Jesus was the mother. She also said he was the brother; I think she was trying to say that Jesus was everything, unlimited by boundaries, even sex.

However, Julian always comes across as having a woman's perspective, and I suspect (without any evidence ) she was a Mother herself, because she considers relationships in such practical everyday terms and there seems to be a major weight of experience behind her thinking.

Some of her thinking is quite modern, I suspect that Tryharder would like her.

 

[jaF0]

so you might as well be civil.

Maybe after they develop brains enough to know how silly 'religion' is.

X seems to be more far gone than most others here. They won't wake up to the realities until after the die. But then of course, there is NO afterlife so it won't really matter then.

 

[Tryharder62]

Maybe after they develop brains enough to know how silly 'religion' is.

X seems to be more far gone than most others here. They won't wake up to the realities until after the die. But then of course, there is NO afterlife so it won't really matter then.

Me thinks, thou dost, protest religion too much...... or however the heck Shakespeare would say it. I have thought of things like you are though.

I really like what Jesus stood for. I believe in what he did. I believe in an afterlife. So what's the worst thing that can happen? I'm right and I get to live eternally in heaven......or I'm wrong and I get planted in the ground with everybody and don't know the difference.

What I struggle with, because I do care, is what if you are wrong. Where would you be in the afterlife? The great thing is we all get to choose what we believe.

I agree with Hypoxia. No one's going to have their minds changed on this thread. I just think it's fascinating to discover new things I didn't know. Hypoxia was right in that when we share our beliefs they become more concrete with us.

Party on McDuff!

 

[phrodeau]

The religious person's idea of disaster relief is to build an ark for only his family and livestock, then afterwards lob paper towels at the survivors.

 

[RubiDia]

I'd come back from the dead to haunt everyone. I don't need to live in heaven. Can I buy like... a liability policy? Serious question.

 

[Hypoxia]

Maybe after they develop brains enough to know how silly 'religion' is.

Won't happen. You won't change their minds and they won't alter your obsessions er I mean strong views.

I recall the glory days of Usenet newsgroup alt.religion, with all the shouting of FUNDY JEEZOIDS! and ATHEIST ASSHOLES! and PENTECOSTAL PRICKS! and QUAKER QUEERS! Very rude religious flamewars. Where are they now? Gone.

 

[TJX]

This thread is for those who genuinely want to know the true way of Salvation. All who truly seek the truth and discuss this are welcome in this thread.

THE truth or YOUR truth?

 

[TJX]

What I struggle with, because I do care, is what if you are wrong.

This is the argument I like the best. If God exists don't you think he KNOWS if you're one of the "in case I'm wrong" crowd?

 

[Tryharder62]

The religious person's idea of disaster relief is to build an ark for only his family and livestock, then afterwards lob paper towels at the survivors.

I cannot tell a lie.... I chuckled. Sorry, moment of weakness

I'd come back from the dead to haunt everyone. I don't need to live in heaven. Can I buy like... a liability policy? Serious question.

Ooooh Maybe I'll do that too. I would haunt phrodeau. I'm his worst nightmare anyway. LOL My husband's an insurance agent. I'm being told that there are no ghoul or ghost policies, but he'll let you pay premiums if you want.

What I struggle with, because I do care, is what if you are wrong.

This is the argument I like the best. If God exists don't you think he KNOWS if you're one of the "in case I'm wrong" crowd?

God knows. I believe. It's up to you what you want to do. If I die first I'll try to send back a signal.

 

[Que]

What I struggle with, because I do care, is what if you are wrong.

This is the argument I like the best. If God exists don't you think he KNOWS if you're one of the "in case I'm wrong" crowd?

I Ponder this a lot in small ways and large. I've come to the decision that it's always better for me to do the right thing even if I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it. I like to believe that you get points for going through the motions even if all you're doing is going through the motions.

My personal belief is that you get more benefit from such things if you do so with an enthusiastic heart but that those benefits are accrued in this life.