Using basic terms incorrectly...

[water505]

Those brains washed in dogmatic bullshit may be too soiled to wipe.

They have no brains left to wash. They're nothing more than voice recorders and don't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

[richard_daily]

Hey everyone. Anyone up to pm?

This lady loves to get PMs:

http://forum.literotica.com/member.php?u=3436300

The raunchier the better.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Hint: Social order and social control are intertwined.

Can be, but not necessarily. Especially when you have freedom of association, free market capitalism and anarchism. Then everyone just gravitates to their own natural hierarchy.

This evil is something the left, social justice and socialism cannot abide by and actively seeks to destroy.

The right wants to tell you what god to pray to, what a woman should do with their body, what drugs they put in your body (including mary jane), what skin color should be where, that poor people "deserve it", mandatory minimums, the "broken windows" theory, etc etc etc...

The left wants to control those things too.

Because money.

And for them it's successful people who didn't fail at life that "deserve it" and as such need to be torn down to the lowest common denominator. In the name of the greater good of course!!

"Tough on crime" IS social control.

I'm sure you get that though, right?


Right?

Yes. I never said that it wasn't.

You're the only one here that ever claimed government regulation isn't government control.

I'm just saying the left is all about their own brand of social control....they do NOT freedom of association socially or economically.

They think it's evil Nazi shit when white folks get together and make a bunch of money.

 

[richard_daily]

The left wants to control those things too.

Because money.

So they're capitalists...

 

[BotanyBoy]

So they're capitalists...

Advocating government control over the production, distribution and exchange of goods and services and over social interaction/associations in the name of social justice is capitalism to you?

REALLY?

Definition of capitalism
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism

 

[Bad_Doggie]

I'm not the one making the insane claims that anarchism which is abhorrent of all government authority, is compatible with social leftism and economic socialism which are staunchly pro-government control.

You’re the one selectively reading a definition, substituting your opinion for the definition, not reading anything that explains what socialism is, or anarchism, disregarding history and then reaching a conclusion that is at odds with all writing that could be easily found with a quick Google.

If that’s not insane I dunno what is.

And what is a collective with the power and authority to take ownership (control) from the individual in the name of the collective?

In the case of Socialism and Marxism in particular; The proletariat.
For example…..The Third estate in Paris, The Soviets in Russia, Upper Clyde Shipbuilders!

What about the collective force used for all the social changes the left is so fond of?

Depends what Social changes you’re talking about, but, here I fear that you’re about to confuse Socialism with Democracy that can happen in any democratic society.

The UK, for example, has the NHS which is owned by the government and so could be said to be a Socialist principle. But, that alone doesn’t make the UK a Socialist state no more than you supporting “single payer” makes you a Socialist, anywhere than in your corrupted version of what Socialism is.

That collective however you want to label it, with the power to enforce social change policy (leftism) and take ownership over the means (socialism) is the effective government or governmental authority.

Something anarchism is by definition directly opposed to.

Definition of anarchism
1
: a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchism


Against all forms of government authority?? Free association? It could not be more anti-left or anti socialism.

Yeah the definition is clear, but, then we have your opinion (as always) grafted on top of it (as always)

How about we take a look and see what Britannica says……

Anarchism, cluster of doctrines and attitudes centred on the belief that government is both harmful and unnecessary. Anarchist thought developed in the West and spread throughout the world, principally in the early 20th century.

Yes!

Foundations Of Anarchist Thought
The first person to willingly call himself an anarchist was the French political writer and pioneer socialist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

Oh!

The first sketch of an anarchist commonwealth in this sense was developed in England in the years immediately following the English Civil Wars (1642–51) by Gerrard Winstanley, a dissenting Christian and founder of the Digger movement. In his pamphlet of 1649, Truth Lifting Up Its Head Above Scandals, Winstanley laid down what later became basic principles among anarchists: that power corrupts; that property is incompatible with freedom; that authority and property are between them the begetters of crime; and that only in a society without rulers, where work and its products are shared, can men be free and happy, acting not according to laws imposed from above but according to their consciences.

Ummm how does that square with the definition of Capitalism?

The anarcho-syndicalists argued that the traditional function of trade unions—to struggle for better wages and working conditions—was not enough. The unions should become militant organizations dedicated to the destruction of capitalism and the state. They should aim to take over factories and utilities, which would then be operated by the workers.

Sounds similar to what I was telling you a page or two ago, no?

Ok how about wiki….

Anarchism is usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology[12][13] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflects anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism or participatory economics.

And then there’s you and your opinion, critical thinking, look beyond, look behind etc etc!

Woof!

 

[BotanyBoy]

You’re the one selectively reading a definition, substituting your opinion for the definition

No I'm not, in any way.

I just don't pretend a collective that's controlling me with the threat of violence isn't the effective government so I can keep pretending anarchism left wing.

Ok how about wiki….

Woof!

Let's take a look at wiki then.

Anarchism is usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology[12][13] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflects anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism or participatory economics.

Anti-authoritarian communism, collectivism and participatory economics??

https://media.giphy.com/media/f3aznQ12GobF6/giphy.gif

 

[Bad_Doggie]

You’re the one selectively reading a definition, substituting your opinion for the definition, not reading anything that explains what socialism is, or anarchism, disregarding history and then reaching a conclusion that is at odds with all writing that could be easily found with a quick Google

No I'm not, in any way.

I just don't pretend a collective that's controlling me with the threat of violence isn't the effective government so I can keep pretending anarchism left wing.

In every way…..even in the following quote……

Let's take a look at wiki then.

Anarchism is usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology[12][13] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflects anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism or participatory economics.

Anti-authoritarian communism, collectivism and participatory economics??

Full quote.....

Anarchism is usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology[12][13] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflects anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism or participatory economics.[14]

Oh look you selectively snipped out parts of the sentence to keep your delusions intact!

Woof!

 

[water505]

Ummmm....Doggy...nobody is going to read your shit. Go drink a few more pints, mate.

Woof.

 

[richard_daily]

In every way…..even in the following quote……



Full quote.....



Oh look you selectively snipped out parts of the sentence to keep your delusions intact!

Woof!

Nailed it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

In every way…

Not at all.

Full quote.....



Oh look you selectively snipped out parts of the sentence to keep your delusions intact!

Woof!

I posted the exact same full quote you did.

EXACTLY.

You even posted verification that I did.

I didn't snip a single bit of anything from it.

You might want to pretend I did because I'm pointing out the absurdity of left wing "anarchism" and might be starting to realize what I was saying about how self contradicting such a thing is because of the heavy government authority factor in everything that is leftism.

But that's your dishonesty not mine.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Nailed it.

LOL....you realize he is verifiably wrong if you just look at his own posts right?

You don't even have to look at mine right below it that he quoted and verifies that I didn't selectively leave out anything right??

You two have some of the worst reading skill's on the board....seriously.

I thought SGT was bad but he got hooked on phonics, ya'll should get some too.

 

[richard_daily]

LOL....you realize he is verifiably wrong if you just look at his own posts right?

You don't even have to look at mine right below it that he quoted and verifies that I didn't selectively leave out anything right??

You two have some of the worst reading skill's on the board....seriously.

I thought SGT was bad but he got hooked on phonics, ya'll should get some too.

He explained to you how you got the definitions wrong, and he showed you. You can lead a stubborn mule to water, but you can't make it drink.

The rest of the caravan is moving on, while you sit dying of thirst, complaining about "socialist" shadows being cast from the trees.

 

[BotanyBoy]

He explained to you how you got the definitions wrong, and he showed you.

I posted the EXACT same quote he did. LMFAO.

He didn't explain anything, he said my quote was wrong then posted the exact same quote I did.

Also it's not the definition of anarchism, it's some dipshits theory about how anarchism is really all about left wing government and not actually anti-government.

What a fuckin' joke




The actual definition of anarchism.

Definition of anarchism
1
: a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups



Something the left is having a hard time accepting because it shit's ALL OVER the whole idea that it's somehow anarchism is compatible with much of if anything from the left.

Even as a totally theoretical idea it's absolutely laughable.

Anti-authoritarian communism, collectivism and participatory economics?? BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

 

[Que]

..you got the definitions wrong, and he showed you. You can lead a stubborn mule to water, but you can't make it drink.

Quoted for underscoring the irony of you, of all people, starting this thread.

You really are the poster child for the dunning-kruger effect and what is wrong with the educational indoctrination complex.

Just because you believe something to be so doesn't make it so. Words have actual meanings and definitions and historical usage matters. It doesn't really matter how many of your fellow educational industrial complex acolytes agree with you- when you're objectively wrong you're actually wrong.

Consensus building plays no part in increasing one's store of knowledge.

You've made some pretty incredibly indefensible claims in the realm of political science and it merely illustrates that the left on its many stripes are sympatico in their ultimate goal of plundering others, but are aware that no one wishes to be plundered so there is an endless process of rebranding and redefining terms to suggest that, " No, that doesn't mean that you might be plundered. "It's those other evil people that we are against." The label changes simply to be more accommodating to the crowd you're trying to snooker.

 

[RobDownSouth]

You really are the poster child for the dunning-kruger effect.

Statements like this^^^^ give serious contention to Ishmael's 15 year reign as Lit's most unintentionally ironic poster of the year.

The lack of self-awareness above is mind boggling.

#Projection
#CuckQueCuckQue
#HeTriesSoooHard
#IsntItIronic

 

[Que]

Statements like this^^^^ give serious contention to Ishmael's 15 year reign as Lit's most unintentionally ironic poster of the year.

The lack of self-awareness above is mind boggling.

#Projection
#CuckQueCuckQue
#HeTriesSoooHard
#IsntItIronic

Your lack of ability to form a cogent thought above is mind-boggling.

For the sake of discussion let's assume that that actually did apply to me.

Everyone suffers from Dunning Kruger on things they overestimate their proficiency in.. that's the point. Central to Dunning Kruger is that one can't have self-awareness about one's limitations. For example your limitation on understanding what the dunning-kruger effect actually is.

That's the very reason that people like you and Dick Daily crow victory when you haven't achieved one.

 

[Bad_Doggie]

Not at all.



I posted the exact same full quote you did.

EXACTLY.

You even posted verification that I did.

I didn't snip a single bit of anything from it.

You might want to pretend I did because I'm pointing out the absurdity of left wing "anarchism" and might be starting to realize what I was saying about how self contradicting such a thing is because of the heavy government authority factor in everything that is leftism.

But that's your dishonesty not mine.

This…..

Anti-authoritarian communism, collectivism and participatory economics??

Is snipped from the sentence.

And just to confirm this fact you go on to post it yet again....here...

Even as a totally theoretical idea it's absolutely laughable.

Anti-authoritarian communism, collectivism and participatory economics?? BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

And Britannica; which was a reliable source which you, yourself introduced earlier in the thread, to support your bankrupt theory of what Socialism is, now becomes……

Also it's not the definition of anarchism, it's some dipshits theory about how anarchism is really all about left wing government and not actually anti-government.

What a fuckin' joke

And I guess you will attempt to dismiss wiki in the same fashion…..because it is shattering your delusions. Except wiki is taking its information from…..The Anarchist Library. and 292 other referenced works!

So we can, yet again, have another go-around with more of your “critical thinking” “ Look beyond” “ But think about“ ”But look beyond” and associated bullshit; ignore the complete sentence, ignore the corroborating Britannica quotes which expand on this, place it in a historical context and give examples of anarchism in practice.

Which proves exactly what I wrote earlier on…..

You’re the one selectively reading a definition, substituting your opinion for the definition, not reading anything that explains what socialism is, or anarchism, disregarding history and then reaching a conclusion that is at odds with all writing that could be easily found with a quick Google.

Woof!

 

[Bad_Doggie]

Just because you believe something to be so doesn't make it so. Words have actual meanings and definitions and historical usage matters.

No it doesn't, does it?

Do you, actually, have something which proves "Anarchism is (NOT) usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology;" and has roots in Socialism or is it just your belief?

Woof!

 

[BotanyBoy]

This…..



Is snipped from the sentence.


Woof!

Actually it's my personal summary, stated seperately, after and punctuated with a question mark.


Which is not the same as "selectively snipped out parts of the sentence to keep your delusions intact!" in regard to my quoting of wiki which you directly implied by re-posting the part that I already posted as if I hadn't already done that.

And Britannica

Who is just reporting it, not actually coming up with it or pushing it.

And I guess you will attempt to dismiss wiki in the same fashion…..

Not at all, I believe wiki that there are idiots out there that believe this shit, hell I'm talking to one.

because it is shattering your delusions.

What delusions?

The only delusional ones so far are the ones who think left wing anarchism is anything other than a philosophical concept doomed to fail as bad as all the communes who have gone out in flames trying.

You’re the one selectively reading a definition, substituting your opinion for the definition, not reading anything that explains what socialism is or anarchism, disregarding history and then reaching a conclusion that is at odds with all writing that could be easily found with a quick Google.

And you're still wrong about that, laughably so.

Can you even name one aspect or stated goal of leftism that will happen without some form of government authority there to enforce it?

Socialism by definition can't exist without it...... shitting all over that whole socialist anarchist idea.

Maybe there is something to that anti-authoritarian communism, collectivism and participatory economics you could point to and prove me wrong?

LMFAO!!! And a few atheist Muslims while you're at it LOL!!!

 

[BotanyBoy]

No it doesn't, does it?

Do you, actually, have something which proves "Anarchism is (NOT) usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology;" and has roots in Socialism or is it just your belief?

Woof!

Definition of anarchism
1
: a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchism


Could not be more anti-socialist.....anti-left which requires government authority over many aspects of society, society based upon FORCED cooperation and association of individuals and groups is closely monitored and or regulated by the government. Free exchange of goods and services is certainly taboo in lefty ideologies and punishable by the state in EVERY socialist state out there.

Government force is the ONLY way anything the left professes to support will happen in any way shape or form.

 

[richard_daily]

What delusions?

The only delusional ones so far are the ones who think left wing anarchism is anything other than a philosophical concept doomed to fail as bad as all the communes who have gone out in flames trying.

The delusions where you don't understand what anarchism is in the real world, and ignore the history of the term, concept, and implementation of all anarchists the world has ever seen.

Can you even name one aspect or stated goal of leftism that will happen without some form of government authority there to enforce it?

For the 5th or 6th time... the FAI and the CNT... John Brown's raid on Harper's ferry, the West Virginia Coal Wars... for starters. Give me a real world example of your pretend "right wing anarchy".

Socialism by definition can't exist without it...... shitting all over that whole socialist anarchist idea.

Maybe there is something to that anti-authoritarian communism, collectivism and participatory economics you could point to and prove me wrong?

We could point you to it another dozen times, but you still wouldn't get it.

 

[water505]

That's the very reason that people like you and Dick Daily crow victory when you haven't achieved one.

Dick and Throb.

Is that a perfect match or what? It's uncanny. It's downright cosmic!

 

[BotanyBoy]

The delusions where you don't understand what anarchism is in the real world, and ignore the history of the term, concept, and implementation of all anarchists the world has ever seen.

You mean I'm not ignoring the definition of anarchism for a bunch of socialist posers?

LOL yea.

For the 5th or 6th time... the FAI and the CNT... John Brown's raid on Harper's ferry, the West Virginia Coal Wars... for starters.

And for the 5th or 6th time...wanting a left wing government, isn't anarchism. Wanting no government is.

Definition of anarchism
1
: a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchism

What about that to you exactly screams pro socialism or left wing government??

Give me a real world example of your pretend "right wing anarchy".

I'm not pretending anarchism is right wing.

I think anarchism is no wing, but by being anti government is highly conducive to free market capitalism and social liberalism. The exact opposite of socialism and social justice.

We could point you to it another dozen times, but you still wouldn't get it.

You haven't once.

You just keep saying it is and pointing to others who just say it is.

And you all are ignoring the definition of anarchism vs. the fundamental reality that leftism and socialism don't happen without some form of government authority, the very thing anarchism professes to hate.

Left wing/socialist anarchism is a self contradicting theory that exist only in the minds of leftist who are in denial about their own beliefs. Too scared to call their desire for social and economic equity what it is or admit what it will require in order to happen.

 

[richard_daily]

So pro-government control (lefty socialism) and anti-government at all (anarchism) working together doesn't strike you as a bit contradictory??

You don't understand socialism or anarchism, so of course it strikes you as odd. Hint: look up the word "autonomy".

It won't change your mind, because willing to do pretzel logic to keep your bizarre worldview, but at least I've tried.

How does labor history change the definition of anarchism or socialism so that they are not in direct contradiction with one another?

Because socialists and anarchists have worked together in opposition to capitalism for 150 years. Your ignorance to that fact doesnt change the facts.

You just can't reconcile the two definitions being at odds with each other

They're not at odds with each other, unless you don't understand the terms.

They do NOT want anything to do with a society based on free association of individuals and groups.

Wrong.

That's racist, elitist, Nazi shit right there.

Wrong.

AntiFa is openly violent against that, they want social justice, government forced equity in as many social and economic aspects as possible.

And wrong again.

They are far left socialist dissidents, anti-capitalist, anti-fascist.... not anarchist.

Link me to a single non-wingnut source that backs up that claim.