Climate change and hurricanes.

[karaline]

Hi,

I've never posted here before but I have a question, I'm hoping it won't be too controversial.

Is there anyone on here that thinks man made climate change is a hoax? If you're reading this and you're one of those people I'm interested to know if the 2017 atlantic hurricane season is having any impact on your beliefs?

thanks

Karaline

 

[richard_daily]

Hi,

I've never posted here before but I have a question, I'm hoping it won't be too controversial.

Is there anyone on here that thinks man made climate change is a hoax? If you're reading this and you're one of those people I'm interested to know if the 2017 atlantic hurricane season is having any impact on your beliefs?

thanks

Karaline

The Alt-right media told the wingnuts to stick up for business interests that aren't their own. Anything that even has potential to stymie a single dollar of profit will get the religion of capitalism whipped up into a fervent frenzy. Wingnuts always fall into line and parrot the fake news that they get from their sources.

 

[Matthew Craig]

The earth has gone through many severe climate changes, mankind is but a blink in the eye. If we do ourselves in? At least the rich jews in thier bunkers will survive.

 

[ryan8558]

The earth has gone through many severe climate changes, mankind is but a blink in the eye. If we do ourselves in? At least the rich jews in thier bunkers will survive.

here's your sign

http://www.crystalinks.com/swastikaflaghitler.jpg

 

[BotanyBoy]

The Alt-right media told the wingnuts to stick up for business interests that aren't their own. Anything that even has potential to stymie a single dollar of profit will get the religion of capitalism whipped up into a fervent frenzy. Wingnuts always fall into line and parrot the fake news that they get from their sources.

Business interest are their own if they aren't a government worker.

Religion of capitalism?

Yea...america likes the freedom, so sad right?

Too bad we don't hate freedom and didn't build the Soviet States of America for you to be proud of.

 

[richard_daily]

Business interest are their own if they aren't a government worker.

Religion of capitalism?

Yea...america likes the freedom, so sad right?

Too bad we don't hate freedom and didn't build the Soviet States of America for you to be proud of.

Capitalism is absolutely a religion. It's a belief system based on belief and faith, rather than fact. You are a fundamentalist of the Capitalist Religion.

 

[KUJACK]

Even If!!

Even if climate change is man made, there is no solution to the problem
Taxing carbon use, really?
Electric cars, really?
Solar panels, really?

Here is what will really work, Nuclear war, killing most of the human polluters.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Capitalism is absolutely a religion. It's a belief system based on belief and faith, rather than fact.

Belief and faith in what?

The private exchange of goods and services on a free market?

More of a preference for a lack of social control and freedom of association than a religion.

You are a fundamentalist of the Capitalist Religion.

Not a fundamentalist, just a regular practitioner because I like to make money more than I like to beg the government for benefits.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Hi,

I've never posted here before but I have a question, I'm hoping it won't be too controversial.

Is there anyone on here that thinks man made climate change is a hoax? If you're reading this and you're one of those people I'm interested to know if the 2017 atlantic hurricane season is having any impact on your beliefs?

thanks

Karaline

I don't think it's necessarily a hoax -- just unproven science based on too small and recent of a data sample. Having said that, the best evidence for detrimental climate change is the rate of decline of polar ice caps -- not hurricane frequency or strength.

 

[richard_daily]

Belief and faith in what?

In the system.

That "the free market will provide".

That "A rising tide raises all boats".

In Trickle Down Economics.

That the "freer the market, the freer the people".

 

[BotanyBoy]

In the system.

The only system in capitalism is that there is no system.

That "the free market will provide".

That "A rising tide raises all boats".

In Trickle Down Economics.

All political sales pitches that have little or nothing to do with capitalism.

And I don't believe in any of that shit.

That the "freer the market, the freer the people".

That's not a belief that's a simple reality supported by the most basic of logic.

Freedom of association (free markets) make people more free.


I think your problem is that you've been brainwashed by socialist to think that capitalism = evil rich people doing evil shit.

And it's not, you should go read the definition sometime.

 

[DrDelirium]

Hi,

I've never posted here before but I have a question, I'm hoping it won't be too controversial.

Is there anyone on here that thinks man made climate change is a hoax? If you're reading this and you're one of those people I'm interested to know if the 2017 atlantic hurricane season is having any impact on your beliefs?

thanks

Karaline

I wouldn't call it a hoax, but I think that certain interests have selected an interpretation of the data that suits their agenda. If you look at the 'science' of weather forecasting, the computer models are based on a very coarse-grained analysis, despite the fact that weather is a classic chaotic system with a great deal of sensitivity to 'initial conditions.' As a result, weather prediction is very erratic in much of the world. Where I live I can frequently look at my local forecast and see that there is zero percent chance of rain all day, and look out my window an see that it is raining. So, while the fundamental dynamics of weather are well understood, the ability to collect and integrate enough data to make accurate predictions even 24 hours ahead lag far behind. Similarly, many elements of climate are understood, but the details are not. Using models that predict the weather poorly to predict climate ten or twenty or a hundred years out is perilous.

In that context, the current hurricane season is no more meaningful re: global warming than the 2013 hurricane season, with only two hurricanes. I believe it's possible to predict in general that with more energy in the weather system due to absorbed radiation by greenhouse gases, the net activity of the weather system will be more active. That might be more breezy spring days, though. Our ability to predict specific consequences of additional energy in the weather system is very limited.
It's interesting to compare models of Earth's climate dynamics to what is known about Jupiter, which, although primarily heated from within, has its hottest regions near the upper limit of its atmosphere, a rather counter-intuitive situation.

Our current epoch is considerably colder on average than the vast majority of the period in which life existed on earth. Hotter is more 'normal.' Doesn't mean that humans are going to like hotter, but oh well.

 

[richard_daily]

The only system in capitalism is that there is no system.

There is a system. In a purely capitalist system, money = absolute power.

Money = government

Money = social control

That's not a belief that's a simple reality supported by the most basic of logic.

Freedom of association (free markets) make people more free.

It's a false equivalency, and not true. Freedom doesn't come from unregulated markets. Freedom comes from individuals who stand up to oppression. Capitalism can be, and often is, a force for oppression.

The robber barons of yesterday, are the CEOs of today.

Ask anyone who lost their home due to AIG or any of the "too big to fail" banks... Ask anyone who's been hustled by Wells Fargo... Ask anyone who got caught up in Swiss Bank... ask anyone who had their pensions raided by Bank of America.

That's the result of a "free market". No rules... guess who wins? Hint: it ain't you.

I think your problem is that you've been brainwashed by socialist to think that capitalism = evil rich people doing evil shit.

And it's not, you should go read the definition sometime.

capitalism (kăpˈĭ-tl-ĭzˌəm)►

n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

accumulation being a really key point in the definition.

Accumulation of wealth is one of the key components and aims of a capitalist culture. However, there's never an unending amount of money. It's a scare resource. So if the wealth is being accumulated, where is it coming from?

Here's a hint:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/images/gildedagea.jpg

 

[phrodeau]

Ann Coulter thinks it's easier to believe that Annise Parker, the lesbian mayor of Houston was the reason for Hurricane Harvey. Parker is now taking credit for the recent nice weather in Houston.

 

[phrodeau]

(edited)

Where I live I can frequently look at my local forecast and see that there is zero percent chance of rain all day, and look out my window an see that it is raining.

Is that Fox News you're watching?

 

[DrDelirium]

Is that Fox News you're watching?

No, my current weather app seems to be a Bill Gates product. It works off of National Weather Service data, but apparently there are too many rednecks in my neighborhood for the local weather to accept Consensus Science.
We used to have a weatherman with the local news station who was pretty accurate five to seven days out, but then, he lived here and sometimes looked out the window.

 

[zipman]

Harvey just walloped Houston, Irma is the strongest recorded and now we have 3 more hurricanes all visible on the same weather map.

These are once in every 500 year hurricanes (at least Harvey and Irma are).

I think a better question is what has to happen for people to realize this is because of climate change?

 

[BotanyBoy]

There is a system. In a purely capitalist system, money = absolute power.

Money = government

Money = social control

Capitalism is Money = government and social control to you?

That's not the capitalist system, that's you opinion.

Definition of capitalism
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism

The definition says capitalism is characterized by private ownership, decision making and a free market.

How do you reconcile you opinion that capitalism means government ownership, control and market mongering (things socialism calls for) with that?

It's a false equivalency, and not true. Freedom doesn't come from unregulated markets.

No it's not and yes it is.

It doesn't come from, it is.

The less government control over the individual (unregulated markets have no control over the individual) the more free that individual is.

Freedom comes from individuals who stand up to oppression.

Oppression that almost always comes in the form of GOVERNMENT via control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services.

Capitalism can be, and often is, a force for oppression.

How is the private and voluntary exchange of goods and services on a free market a force for oppression?

Ask anyone who lost their home due to AIG or any of the "too big to fail" banks...

That whole situation was only able to happen because government regulations facilitated it.

That's the result of a "free market". No rules... guess who wins? Hint: it ain't you.

If you think the US banking system is a no rules free market you're ignorance issue is far greater than I thought.

I know I din't win, I pay taxes that are still paying for that shit....not because capitalism but because the GOVERNMENT is making me pay for their fuck ups instead. Socialism for the rich.

 

[adrina]

In the system.

That "the free market will provide".

That "A rising tide raises all boats".

In Trickle Down Economics.

That the "freer the market, the freer the people".

Don't forget that "capitalism regulates itself".

 

[richard_daily]

Unregulated markets ARE freedom....

Give me an example of an unregulated free market, and the freedom that it provides.

Oppression that almost always comes in the form of GOVERNMENT via control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services.

Really? Tell that to the people of Rowanda, South Sudan, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Those are just a few examples of oppression going on at this very moment. None of them are coming from GOVERNMENT control.

How is the private and voluntary exchange of goods and services on a free market a force for oppression?

Who opts in when it's a free market? In a free market, the free market decides... individuals don't.

That whole situation was only able to happen because the GOVERNMENT facilitated it.

At the behest of whom?

If you think the US banking system is a free market you're dumber than I thought.

So you believe it's "crony capitalism", right?

That's the inevitable result of a free market. Money buys power. Money buys government... Money buys laws.

That's what the free market gets you.

 

[richard_daily]

Don't forget that "capitalism regulates itself".

Three Mile Island is a great example of that...

 

[BotanyBoy]

Give me an example of an unregulated free market, and the freedom that it provides.

Basic logic guy.....if my exchanges of goods and services are not being controlled by the government (a free market) then I am unrestricted by authority and thus free.

When the government regulates, they tell me how to conduct my business under threat of penalty, making me less free than if they were to fuck off and not regulate my associations.

Really? Tell that to the people of Rowanda, South Sudan, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Those are just a few examples of oppression going on at this very moment. None of them are coming from GOVERNMENT control.

Religion is the original government.

Who opts in when it's a free market? In a free market, the free market decides... individuals don't.

Anyone who wants to and can pay the entry fee.

If individuals don't have a choice in if they want to opt in or not then it's not a free market now is it?

At the behest of whom?

The people who put them in office of course.

So you believe it's "crony capitalism", right?

No, I don't think there is such a thing due to the nature of capitalism being about private ownership/control over the means and free markets, not government control/ownership over the means and markets.

I think it's just good old fashioned corrupt government and an idiot population that keeps sending the same fucking scumbags back again and again to keep doing it.

If anything it's crony socialism.

That's the inevitable result of a free market. Money buys power. Money buys government... Money buys laws.

That's what the free market gets you.

And at the point those laws start pushing government ownership and control over the means and markets? Not capitalism anymore is it?


Definition of socialism
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

 

[Hypoxia]

Three Mile Island is a great example of that...

Amazon.Com is a better example IMHO. All USA nukes are heavily regulated. Alas, regs don't prevent cheating and sloppiness, as at TMI. Whereas Amazon follows Bezos' lead to conquer the world, buck by buck.

 

[richard_daily]

Basic logic guy.....if my exchanges of goods and services are not being controlled by the government (a free market) then I am unrestricted by authority and thus free.

When the government regulates, they tell me how to conduct my business under threat of penalty, making me less free than if they were to fuck off and not regulate my associations.

I asked for an example. Not theory... an example.

Give me a real-world example of what you believe free-market capitalism is and where it exists.

 

[richard_daily]

And at the point those laws start pushing government ownership and control over the means and markets? Not capitalism anymore is it?


Definition of socialism
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

Socialism is NOT the ownership of government by corporations... that's called plutocracy.

It's unbelievable how many times you refer to socialism as "shit Botany Boy doesn't like".