Gender Identity/ Sexual Orientation

[butters]

First off, you approach transgender as if it's a problem to be solved, which is problematic.

Next off, your premise is a huge leap in logic... Monsanto is a crappy corporation (like just about every corporation), but transgender kids have always been here. I went to high school with at least 3 that were out and that's decades ago.

Kids are more comfortable expressing who they are, and the concept of binary gender is a thing that will likely be mostly comprehended by folks of the next generation.

Older generations aren't going to get it, just like older segments of the population (and many countries) didn't get homosexuality.

I don't blame Monsanto for the rise in transgender, I blame religion. It's oppressed people and told them what they can be for centuries...

Transgender people have existed the entire time, they simply have been marginalized and pushed underground.

exactly so. times, they are a'changing. even so, it is still very hard for some of them to throw off societal expectations and stand up to live as their true selves.

the surgery has improved beyond belief, but it's still a lengthy process (for those not going privately, anyway) before even getting as far as surgery; there're the original doctor visits to be referred to the gender identity clinic, then multiple hospital/clinic visits for blood tests, psych evaluation, discussions about lifestyle changes, living their life as the gender they are to 'prove' they are serious about things (involving legal name change with all its attendant issues regarding legal bodies), and that's all before even starting on hormone therapy. it's a journey of several years, which can be deeply depressing for a young person.

I wonder if mtf trans people go get Pap smears, or mammograms, to get the full female experience. Or take bone health supplements to prevent osteoporosis.

Ooo, do you guys know if viagra works better if a female transitions to male?

fuck off, idiot

 

[hsnh]

I'm not as hard as liberals are on those who disagree with the biological model of transgenders, and even on their judgmental attitudes.

Because whereas some of them are driven by bigotry re anyone who's different, others aren't.

So many experts keep telling the public that there's a biological mechanism underlying this. But their explanations are mainly theoretical, and they haven't offered concrete, palpable evidence for that.
I'm sure that attitudes will change when science will progress far enough to produce some clear evidence or test for biological markers.

I often compare it to attitudes re ADHD.
Initially labelled as lazinness or all sorts of psychoanalytic explanation. (and some people still do), leading to a gradual acceptance of the biological basis, and recently they started coming up with some sophisticated radiological markers.
And similar to GID, people who don't have ADHD are misdiagnosed too.

 

[Lancecastor]

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=51249422&postcount=77

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Explain to me how DeBlasio's wife's brain could reengineer itself. Please.

Prolly the same process you used to reengineer yourself out of being homosexual/bisexual?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2012/11/OohBurn.gif

I mean, Science is on your side, not desired political outcome, right???

Maybe you should write an e-mail to Chirlane McCray and find out yourself directly instead of using her past for incorrect, irrelevant, weak-assed, shitty partisan snark against a Democrat.

 

[hsnh]

exactly so. times, they are a'changing. even so, it is still very hard for some of them to throw off societal expectations and stand up to live as their true selves.

the surgery has improved beyond belief, but it's still a lengthy process (for those not going privately, anyway) before even getting as far as surgery; there're the original doctor visits to be referred to the gender identity clinic, then multiple hospital/clinic visits for blood tests, psych evaluation, discussions about lifestyle changes, living their life as the gender they are to 'prove' they are serious about things (involving legal name change with all its attendant issues regarding legal bodies), and that's all before even starting on hormone therapy. it's a journey of several years, which can be deeply depressing for a young person.


fuck off, idiot

Butters has me on iggy, but I'll still ask:
I'm a bit confused as to what she means by this:

1.Is it part of an explanation of why depression is so prevalent among this group? Among many other factors.

2.Or is it a criticism of the process, as in young people shouldn't go through all these hoops and failsafe mechanisms, and should shortcircuit the process?

I agree with no.1 but I feel that no.2 would be a dangerous idea.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You had THREE transgender classmates.

What are the chances of that happening, when statistics put the % at 0.6%?
"… pants on fire".

Or did you attend a special school for the gifted and different?

Or is he just lying about kids who were "gay?"

 

[hsnh]

No, Matthew Craig...honestly, my granddaughter's high school...it's a specialized school for the highest academics.
A HUGE population of this schools kids are transgender. I'm not kidding. There are 16 year old girls wanting their breasts removed.
I'm shocked. I NEVER saw anything like this back in my day.

Fascinating and worrisome at the same time, imo.

This article was just as intriguing:
Number of children being referred to gender identity clinics has quadrupled in five years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...erred-gender-identity-clinics-has-quadrupled/





_________________________________________

1.Liberals tend to put it down to the fact tha. their campaign and the lessened stigma made it posdible for previously closetted transgenders to have thecourage to "come out".

2.Conservatives tend to think that it's mainly due to the over the top promotion of transgenderism and imprinting on the minds of undevelopped young minds.

(I think it's both, but no.2 happens far more often. Even if I strongly believe in the biological model and I disagree with the stigma real transgenders face)

Even if I was initially reluctant to look at it, your theory re Monsanto hormones is actually interesting and even plausible, and tries to look at alternative explanations, other than the two.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Let's try some math. It's not uncommon for an American high school to have 2,000 students. What's .6% of 2000?

1% is 20, which is high. Half of that is 10 which is also high, for "transgender" in any environment.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What does the methodology for determining the number of transgenders in the general population have to do with calculating a relative frequency?

2,000 * .006 = 12, which is approximately an order of magnitude larger than three. Meaning, the notion that there are several transgenders at a particular high school at a particular time is perfectly reasonable.

No. It is not. the real number is less than .01%.

 

[Freudian_Slit]

No. It is not. the real number is less than .01%.

Cite? Every reasonable number I've ever read has been of the order of magnitude of .3%.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"Reasonable" is a highly subjective valuation.





You keep trying to be "Scientific" in the name of the political...

 

[Freudian_Slit]

"Reasonable" is a highly subjective valuation.





You keep trying to be "Scientific" in the name of the political...

I'll take that as a "No."

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The number is closer to .01...


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-we-dont-know-the-size-of-the-transgender-population/

 

[hsnh]

The number is closer to .01...


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-we-dont-know-the-size-of-the-transgender-population/

You're right.
My other reasoning was the following: (I might be wrong tho, because statistics were never my forte)

1.We're talking about prevalence, not incidence.
2.Human lifespan is roughly 80. And at any given time, the population consists of 4 generations: teens, young adults, middle aged, the elder.
Whereas the 1 to 20 age group recycles every 20 years, and high school kids recycle every 5 years.

ETA
On the other hand, at the same time that people are born others die (randomly or at 80 years) , which contradicts that a bit.
Anyway. This stuff is too complicated for me, I was mainly trying to troll richard looks like it backfired.

 

[Freudian_Slit]

Gary Gates is an LGBT demographer at the University of California Los Angeles School of Law’s Williams Institute, which studies sexual orientation and gender identity law and public policy. He is responsible for one of the most frequently cited estimates of the transgender population — 700,000, about 0.3 percent of U.S. adults. That figure is based on data from two surveys. One, conducted in Massachusetts in 2007 and 2009, found that 0.5 percent of respondents ages 18 to 64 identified as transgender. The other, done in California in 2003 to look at trends in LGBT tobacco use, found that 0.1 percent of adults in California identified as transgender. Using the surveys to get to the 0.3 percent estimate “takes a lot of statistical gymnastics,” Gates said.

All of these numbers are an order of magnitude higher than .01%. Regardless of the statistical gymnastics, this cite gives the .3% figure that I mentioned earlier.

Edit: This is from the 538 link given a couple posts above.

 

[Aglaopheme]

Maybe he posted the wrong link, because that one thoroughly disproves his point.

At what percentage of the population would you feel transfolk deserved equal rights, AJ?

Better still, what percentage of the population needs to be trans for you to stop

https://media.giphy.com/media/Gp2D9iXvZXzri/giphy.gif

all over this and every other thread about transfolk?

 

[EternalFantasies]

exactly so. times, they are a'changing. even so, it is still very hard for some of them to throw off societal expectations and stand up to live as their true selves.

the surgery has improved beyond belief, but it's still a lengthy process (for those not going privately, anyway) before even getting as far as surgery; there're the original doctor visits to be referred to the gender identity clinic, then multiple hospital/clinic visits for blood tests, psych evaluation, discussions about lifestyle changes, living their life as the gender they are to 'prove' they are serious about things (involving legal name change with all its attendant issues regarding legal bodies), and that's all before even starting on hormone therapy. it's a journey of several years, which can be deeply depressing for a young person.


fuck off, idiot

How.. How on earth, do you agree with that before, and call it "exactly so" as well, then call someone else - anyone - an idiot.

 

[butters]

How.. How on earth, do you agree with that before, and call it "exactly so" as well, then call someone else - anyone - an idiot.

with ease of practise; a familiarity with the topic due to a family member's trans journey; and having listened to their friends' experiences as transgender individuals.

libsam's comments were typical of an ignorance of the subject and made in a crass manner.

so exactly which parts of the bolded text i was agreeing with do you take issue with? meh, forget it - i don't have time for the stupidity.

 

[EternalFantasies]

with ease of practise; a familiarity with the topic due to a family member's trans journey; and having listened to their friends' experiences as transgender individuals.

libsam's comments were typical of an ignorance of the subject and made in a crass manner.

so exactly which parts of the bolded text i was agreeing with do you take issue with? meh, forget it - i don't have time for the stupidity.

No no - notwithstanding my guaranteed stupidity -, go with your gut. You deny the voice within, what else would you have left?

All of it. Everything you emboldened.

And putting something true and correct and worthy of empathy within a larger erroneous sentence doesn't make the whole thing correct, especially when it is affecting the general consensus, and and how that affects the kind of measures taken to address this matter. And how those measures when based on false assumptions would be flawed, and thereby risk being detrimental to the health and well being of all children.

Meh.. Ur right, small matter really.

 

[hsnh]

My husband wrote this. A good read.

Over the years, I've seen many books, sermons, letters, shows, etc. filled with ignorance and misogyny when it come to kids who feel born with the opposite gender body or sexual orientation from that which is taught as 'culturally acceptable'. Sexuality is a confusing issue to most people; but, forcing change through denial, "re-education", beatings, ostracism, etc. has rarely worked and, often, led to suicide, estrangement, or other equally bad outcomes.

Science is beginning to see the truth how our neonatal brains influence our sexual identity and sexual orientation. If you know someone who has been through this, you know it is not a matter of 'personal choice'. Please share this scientific article and know that the person shares no guilt in why they are who they are. You just have to love them for who they are.

From Frontiers in Neuroendocrinology's article titled "Sexual differentiation of the human brain: Relation to gender identity, sexual orientation and neuropsychiatric disorders". The highlights of the research state, "► Gender identity and sexual orientation are permanently programmed in the fetal brain. ► Testosterone in the fetal stage determines sexual differentiation of the human brain. ► The degree of genital masculinization does not necessarily reflect that of the brain. ► No evidence indicates social environment affect gender identity or sexual orientation. ► Sex differences in the brain determine sex-specific prevalence of brain disorders."

Here is a link to the abstract on the research,

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091302211000252

Despite the take on how my husband feels and believes....I believe the MONSANTO Company is responsible for the hormonal problems in so many of our kids these days.

Why do we have parent's embattled with school districts over which bathroom their child can use? We're talking about kids in the 1st grade here folks.

WTF is going on? First of all, we need to wipe out these chemicals that are damaging our kids.

Hormonal issues can do so much damage to our kids. Get involved. Just STOP IT.

My initial reaction was:
I thought wow! re the first post but I found the second post a tad ridiculous.

But the more I started thinking about your second post, the less dismissive I got.

______________________________

You're totally right:

1.The incidence of people who identified themselves as transgender has increased at an unprecedented rate over such a short period of time… .

2.And most of us are stuck at the "nurture" (psychosocial causes) of debate :
-- conservatives claim that the over the top emphasis and publicity - primary school included - led to impressionable people misidentifying themselves
-- liberals claim that the advocacy and decreased stigma allowed previously closetted transgenders to drop their fears and come out.

3.But nobody addressed yet the second hypothesis: what if it's all about "nature"? What if biological causes are responsible for such a high spike in cases as of late?
Given that GID has a biological basis.
-- And your coment about Montanto crops/ transgenderism : I can't tell if it holds or if it's physically possible but the logic 'makes sense', so to speak: because hormones play a role in both.

I particularly enjoyed your thread I thought it was one of the most interesting of late, thanks.

 

[Queersetti]

You're talking about like 1% of the population here. Maybe 2% for those who fall for the "i'm gay" or "i'm trans" fad.

Yet everyday it's shoved in my face by the media..

Another guy who can't stop thinking about having things shoved in his face.

 

[hsnh]

Another guy who can't stop thinking about having things shoved in his face.

Indeed. His post was clearly bigotted.

But it also contained a grain of truth.
By shoving the Trans issue in our face so often, liberals don't realize that they're eliciting the opposite reaction to the one intended, in many people.

I, for example would never make fun of a person with GID IRL, but I found myself mocking the issue at times because massmedia is either annoying or ridiculous.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Maybe he posted the wrong link, because that one thoroughly disproves his point.

At what percentage of the population would you feel transfolk deserved equal rights, AJ?

Better still, what percentage of the population needs to be trans for you to stop



all over this and every other thread about transfolk?

What rights are they being "denied?"

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The article clearly states that even the .3% number is a guess.



Now, no one has taken up the challenge as to why a Lesbian simply stops being a Lesbian nor have we any test or scan entered into evidence that can determine what the hard-wired gender choice of an individual is going to be.

Get back to me when you have some real Science instead of a desired outcome.

 

[Saint Peter]

The ratios don't matter. 1 percent or 50, big fucking deal.

It is not the video games, the bad baby sitters, the lack of church or the media that is "causing" sexual identification. It happens while the bun is in the oven. It happens during creation while on god's watch.

If god is allowing such deviant traits to exist in the child without sin, who are we to not accept the outcome?