How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[yossi]

I plan on sneaking up the back staircase.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I plan on sneaking up the back staircase.

Technically the back door way is not explicitly denied in the bible.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Technically the priests are all men.

 

[Tryharder62]

Why would Satan falling to earth completely destroy it?

I can't buy into the gap theory. Makes as much sense as young earth creationism to me. But I've always had issues with taking the Bible literally, especially with creation.

I have to admit I used to believe in young earth creationism. I do tend to take the bible literally. I can't fully get behind the gap theory because it isn't well laid out in scripture. It's thought comes from one word interpreted two ways. Phrodeau, my only thought is Satan's key aim is to destroy the creation and work of God.

I do think everything about the bible is important. It doesn't affect my salvation if I believe in a young earth creationism or old earth creationism though. Equally "Christian" people are in both camps. My own opinion is that we need to continue to try to learn and comprehend but it won't be fully known until we see HIM face to face. Science is a big tool to increase knowledge. I was fortunate enough to have a science teacher that didn't make me afraid of science and faith but encouraged me to keep investigating.

So Rocket what are your thoughts on creation then? I have learned a lot from people on this and other "God" threads when I study it deeper.

 

[Tryharder62]

Creationism is emphatically not a science, nor does it compare favorably to contemporary scientific theory.

Consider one of main arguments for the validity of science, the success of science. Would technologists and engineers refer to creationism for the design and specification of their devices? Would medical researchers refer to creationism when investigating a new drug or therapy?

Of course they wouldn't. Creationism fails this test of scientific validity.

Creationism doesn't have to pass a scientific test. As you say it is totally different, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

Consider one of the main arguments for the validity of creationism, faith in God. What is the saying - there are no atheists in foxholes? Would a man in his last hour of need call out to the great scientists of the day for help or would he call out to his maker. I suppose it depends on the person.

Scientific validity, while very important, fails the "God" test. The thing is they don't have to be exclusive. You can look at both for knowledge in this life.

 

[phrodeau]

Creationism doesn't have to pass a scientific test. As you say it is totally different, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

Consider one of the main arguments for the validity of creationism, faith in God. What is the saying - there are no atheists in foxholes? Would a man in his last hour of need call out to the great scientists of the day for help or would he call out to his maker. I suppose it depends on the person.

Scientific validity, while very important, fails the "God" test. The thing is they don't have to be exclusive. You can look at both for knowledge in this life.

What's the "God" test? Part of a theology course?

Keep the things that don't pass a scientific test out of the science classrooms.

 

[Tryharder62]

What's the "God" test? Part of a theology course?

Keep the things that don't pass a scientific test out of the science classrooms.

I was being mischievous. There is no God test because the answer is always love.

What are you so afraid of? I worry about people that only want to see things one way and only one way. Not everything fits in a perfect box. There is room for God and Science together. There are people who are Christians and are Scientists. They don't have to directly oppose one another.

You say: Keep the things that don't pass a scientific test out of the science classrooms. So glad my science teacher didn't feel that way. He wasn't afraid that there might be more out there than what meets the eye.

 

[rocket_surgery]

I have to admit I used to believe in young earth creationism. I do tend to take the bible literally. I can't fully get behind the gap theory because it isn't well laid out in scripture. It's thought comes from one word interpreted two ways. Phrodeau, my only thought is Satan's key aim is to destroy the creation and work of God.

I do think everything about the bible is important. It doesn't affect my salvation if I believe in a young earth creationism or old earth creationism though. Equally "Christian" people are in both camps. My own opinion is that we need to continue to try to learn and comprehend but it won't be fully known until we see HIM face to face. Science is a big tool to increase knowledge. I was fortunate enough to have a science teacher that didn't make me afraid of science and faith but encouraged me to keep investigating.

So Rocket what are your thoughts on creation then? I have learned a lot from people on this and other "God" threads when I study it deeper.

I'm in the same camp as most, old earth creationist. God big banged and let things evolve with what I would assume to be some guidance along the way to make sure it went the way He wanted it to go.
Of course I also think perhaps we aren't the first or only beings in His creation. Maybe He did another universe a while back, it finally collapsed on itself and now it's our turn. Or maybe we're the 215th time. No way to know but fun to speculate.
I got no problem with Him making aliens either. Making this massive universe that we can never see or fully understand doesn't make much sense if it's just us. It does make sense tho if He wants to create others but doesn't want us to ever meet and compare notes or something. Or maybe God just likes a big universe and it's only us. Who knows?
Either way I believe in God and evolution both. Once in a while someone will tell me I can't do that but they're idiots.

 

[rocket_surgery]

I was being mischievous. There is no God test because the answer is always love.

What are you so afraid of? I worry about people that only want to see things one way and only one way. Not everything fits in a perfect box. There is room for God and Science together. There are people who are Christians and are Scientists. They don't have to directly oppose one another.

You say: Keep the things that don't pass a scientific test out of the science classrooms. So glad my science teacher didn't feel that way. He wasn't afraid that there might be more out there than what meets the eye.

I saw something not long ago that was about the percentage of doctors and scientists who believe in God. I don't remember what it was but it was higher than I thought it would be.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Deism is a philosophical position which posits that a god does not interfere directly with the world. It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.

 

[rocket_surgery]

Deism is a philosophical position which posits that a god does not interfere directly with the world. It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.

Yes wiki is just full of knowledge, isn't it?

 

[Hard_Rom]

Yes wiki is just full of knowledge, isn't it?

I read Wiki just for the hell of it. Like a giant e-book encyclopedia. Start on homepage and see where the blue links take you.

I'm an atheist so have no idea how a doctor or scientist can be a theist. Wiki has some reasons. Not like we can all go on just opinion and believe we know it all. Wiki makes sages of us all.

Would quoting the bible be better? Think I will stick with Wiki.

 

[EternallFantasies]

Deism is a philosophical position which posits that a god does not interfere directly with the world. It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.

Hilarious.

Revelation is real. and behind how many knew things thousands of years back we are only scientifically discovering them today.

You can take the deism and... where it belongs.

 

[phrodeau]

I was being mischievous. There is no God test because the answer is always love.

What are you so afraid of? I worry about people that only want to see things one way and only one way. Not everything fits in a perfect box. There is room for God and Science together. There are people who are Christians and are Scientists. They don't have to directly oppose one another.

You say: Keep the things that don't pass a scientific test out of the science classrooms. So glad my science teacher didn't feel that way. He wasn't afraid that there might be more out there than what meets the eye.

Your science teacher did you a serious disservice if you were taught anything that wasn't scientifically examinable.

 

[GeorgeWalker]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o8doPY9nR3aClIMgM/giphy.gif

"Just a second, I have a text message. Oh God, that was hilarious."

"Now, what were you saying?"

 

[Hard_Rom]

Hilarious.

Revelation is real. and behind how many knew things thousands of years back we are only scientifically discovering them today.

You can take the deism and... where it belongs.

No one listens to alts around here.

Good thing the founding fathers of the US of A didn't feel that way.

In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Deism_in_the_United_States

 

[phrodeau]

Hilarious.

Revelation is real. and behind how many knew things thousands of years back we are only scientifically discovering them today.

You can take the deism and... where it belongs.

Are you discovering how to write sentences?

Revelations are entirely in people's heads. People can think of a lot of fascinating things, and some of them turn out to be factual.

 

[colddiesel]

I have to admit I used to believe in young earth creationism. I do tend to take the bible literally. I can't fully get behind the gap theory because it isn't well laid out in scripture. It's thought comes from one word interpreted two ways. Phrodeau, my only thought is Satan's key aim is to destroy the creation and work of God.

I do think everything about the bible is important. It doesn't affect my salvation if I believe in a young earth creationism or old earth creationism though. Equally "Christian" people are in both camps. My own opinion is that we need to continue to try to learn and comprehend but it won't be fully known until we see HIM face to face. Science is a big tool to increase knowledge. I was fortunate enough to have a science teacher that didn't make me afraid of science and faith but encouraged me to keep investigating.

So Rocket what are your thoughts on creation then? I have learned a lot from people on this and other "God" threads when I study it deeper.

Ever wondered why 99% of Christians believe in Evolution and not Creationist nonsense. Creationism is essentially confined to two tiny groups. The "Old Believers" of the Russian Orthodox Church of which there are only about 50,000 left and a small rump of very poorly educated white Calvinist Protestants in the USA.

Jorge Maria Borgolio is the only church leader that I know with a rigorous tertiary education in Science. He declared in 2014 that Evolution is fact and the Big Bang theory is also fact. His church makes a clear distinction between the blindingly obvious evolution of the body, as opposed to the god given soul.

So called leaders of religious thought like Billy Graham peddle literal lies to support their power structure and sumptuous lifestyles. Stop being one of the sheepTH.

 

[Tryharder62]

Your science teacher did you a serious disservice if you were taught anything that wasn't scientifically examinable.

I don't know where he is now. I'll tell him that if I see him again in heaven!!!

 

[Hard_Rom]

Ever wondered why 99% of Christians believe in Evolution and not Creationist nonsense. Creationism is essentially confined to two tiny groups. The "Old Believers" of the Russian Orthodox Church of which there are only about 50,000 left and a small rump of very poorly educated white Calvinist Protestants in the USA.

Jorge Maria Borgolio is the only church leader that I know with a rigorous tertiary education in Science. He declared in 2014 that Evolution is fact and the Big Bang theory is also fact. His church makes a clear distinction between the blindingly obvious evolution of the body, as opposed to the god given soul.

So called leaders of religious thought like Billy Graham peddle literal lies to support their power structure and sumptuous lifestyles. Stop being one of the sheepTH.

In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

*say 150 million out of 2.4 billion. more like 6%, but still a big chunk of the US population*

 

[Tryharder62]

Ever wondered why 99% of Christians believe in Evolution and not Creationist nonsense. Creationism is essentially confined to two tiny groups. The "Old Believers" of the Russian Orthodox Church of which there are only about 50,000 left and a small rump of very poorly educated white Calvinist Protestants in the USA.

Stop being one of the sheepTH.

I really would like to know where you got the number as 99% of Christians.

I do believe in some of the principles of evolution ie. adaptation. However, I don't believe that species just jump to other species. I am also an old earth creationist. God made the bang if those words need to be used.

No thank you on the stop being a sheep thing. I have an excellent shepherd! (Did you catch that biblical reference. Man sometimes I crack myself up. 1% of Christians would understand. LOL)

 

[EternallFantasies]

I really would like to know where you got the number as 99% of Christians.

I do believe in some of the principles of evolution ie. adaptation. However, I don't believe that species just jump to other species. I am also an old earth creationist. God made the bang if those words need to be used.

No thank you on the stop being a sheep thing. I have an excellent shepherd! (Did you catch that biblical reference. Man sometimes I crack myself up. 1% of Christians would understand. LOL)

I'd also like to know where he got his 50k figure too lol.

No one listens to alts around here.

Good thing the founding fathers of the US of A didn't feel that way.

In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Deism_in_the_United_States

Wash your mouth with soap, I am no Alt! Alts have many accounts; i got one

You have bought into the thousands of bogus websites selling this enlightenment idea as some exclusive renaissance shit.

What's funny is that all these renaissance figures were Christian

There are old Christian value many adhere to, and do not boast. we also do not let the left hand what the right hand is doing.

The Church for many reasons had to tighten its belt for a long time and european kings and power hungry moron popes, ruined stuff.

American founders aren't bad people, but doing stuff the way they did doesn't exclude the 'revelation' part; or any religious part for that matter. It simply focuses on rational building which was necessary.

You fell for the deception, and did not see the deception within the deception Rommy.

 

[EternallFantasies]

Evolution & Creationism are not mutually exclusive; rather the absolute opposite.

 

[phrodeau]

I really would like to know where you got the number as 99% of Christians.

I do believe in some of the principles of evolution ie. adaptation. However, I don't believe that species just jump to other species. I am also an old earth creationist. God made the bang if those words need to be used.

No thank you on the stop being a sheep thing. I have an excellent shepherd! (Did you catch that biblical reference. Man sometimes I crack myself up. 1% of Christians would understand. LOL)

Species do not jump to other species. There's that science teacher again.

A particular species might remain unchanged for millions of years, or it might change in 10,000 years.

Environment changes, food supply changes, predators and prey change, and a species changes along with it, through survival of the fittest. After 500,000 years and as many generations, a species may have made a few tiny changes. Another 500,000 years, and a few more tiny changes occur, but it could still be called the same species. Now multiply that 200 times, and you have something very different. That's 200,000,000 years and all the generations that carries. Are they still the same species? It doesn't matter to them, because they aren't searching for 200,000,000-year-old examples to reproduce with. But there's enough apparent change to justify giving them another name.

 

[phrodeau]

Evolution & Creationism are not mutually exclusive; rather the absolute opposite.

Do you know the meaning of all those words?