How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[phrodeau]

It's not just the eye that couldn't have evolved. It's the 4 chamber heart, the two sexes, understanding of music in animals and humans, the eye and many other systems.

Are you Duane Gish? Gallop off, and learn some science.

 

[EternalFantasies]

It's not a question of whether I like John's gospel, in fact it is definitely the most imaginative and interesting gospel - but as source material definitely the poorest. Its Gnostic philosophizing was despised by many early Church fathers, but his resurrection story got an otherwise unacceptable gospel into the canon - 150 years late!

All irrelevant. Your post questioned the reliability of the story of the Jews requesting the killing of Jesus given when this Gospel was said to be written, while the other Gospels say the same anyway.

Shalom

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Are you Duane Gish? Gallop off, and learn some science.

No you learn science. It couldn't have evolved.

 

[Hard_Rom]

No you learn science. It couldn't have evolved.

According to you a single cell couldn't evolve. Go away pedantic circular logic twit your ruining the thread.

 

[Tryharder62]

This is my message instead of a goodbye thread. I came to lit 5 years ago a really lonely woman for many reasons. I have never really wanted to say goodbye because I really do like the people on here. I like it that there is usually always someone to talk to. I like threads like this one. So many smart people. So much to learn. I've learned a lot.

(I found lit, crazily enough, when I was googling how to write a romance. I wanted to write one for the Harlequin Love Inspired series.)

It's time I get off the boards and deal with some of the issues that have me hiding here. Maybe I'll start that book.

The thread by Eternal that He is risen made me see the light tonight. That and a wonderful sermon about how Jesus took the place of Barrabas on the cross. A thread about any other faith or belief would not go the way the He is Risen thread is going. It wouldn't be tolerated.

Thank you for 5 years. I think I really would have lost it without lit. Someone else is going to have to carry on the torch to get Andre to start a thread. Everybody should start a thread.

Happy Easter to other Christ followers and Peace to all!!!

Tryharder62

 

[Hard_Rom]

You'll be missed. Best wishes.

 

[colddiesel]

??

Now this makes no sense. The same account is in Mathew,27, the earliest Gospel.

Clearly shows how the Jews grabbed him at the requests of the High Priest, and the blasphemy charge, and the request to Pilate to crucify him.

Mark was the first gospel written, not Matthew, a simple deduction based on the fact that Matthew and Luke can be closely referenced to Mark but not t'other way round. the later gospels quoted and expanded on the earlier ones. Similarly, whilst very early papyri of Mark have been located and later of Matthew and Luke nothing of John until post 120 AD. 95% of Biblical scholars agree with that order of writing; (1 Mark, 2 Matthew, 3 Luke, 4 John.)

The Jews have always argued passionately with their God, they still do. I believe Christians should do the same, particularly with the Biblical propagandists and the institutional Churches. If you tried that, you would soon find that despite the many inaccuracies and contradictions in the Biblical account, the basic ethics and beliefs stand up to examination - and are the more powerful for it.

You might find it instructive to read the non-canoniacal Gospels, particularly of Peter and Thomas. Many fundamentalist protestants find it hard to understand why they were excluded - which was primarily because they taught the possibility of a personal, (Gnostic) relationship with God , unsupervised by an institutional church. They definitely give a more complete insight into Jesus than does the Canon approved by the early church. You could also include the non- canoniacal Gospel of Mary but mebbe not Judas -that's a bit difficult.

Elaine Pagels is easily the best interpreter of the non canoniacal gospels and their relationship to Church orthodoxy. Her book "The Gnostic Paul" is particularly helpful. All her work is on Amazon - she is never an extremist. Read her and then you can abuse the tripe out of me if you like.

 

[phrodeau]

Sorry to hear TryHarder62 is going.

I was just about to bring up what it takes to convince someone. Noah is the best example, since he was totally convinced that a Great Flood covered the Entire World, based only on the fact that a bird came back to his boat.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Until they dig down deep in the Vatican archives and reveal a long supressed Gospel of Mary it is all hearsay.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Sorry to hear TryHarder62 is going.

I was just about to bring up what it takes to convince someone. Noah is the best example, since he was totally convinced that a Great Flood covered the Entire World, based only on the fact that a bird came back to his boat.

Vikings did that too. Probably lots of sea faring cultures.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Preaching in hell is like pushing the most impossible line.

There are always some worth bringing back out, and otherwise, I drop by for some good ol company. hehe.

Here's one for the road: No matter how one identifies it, the power of Good will always prevail. For otherwise, none would be here to chat about it.

Happy Trails - forward.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Preaching in hell is like pushing the most impossible line.

There are always some worth bringing back out, and otherwise, I drop by for some good ol company. hehe.

Here's one for the road: No matter how one identifies it, the power of Good will always prevail. For otherwise, none would be here to chat about it.

Happy Trails - forward.

Did you know?? Jesus actually preached to the spirits in hell when He died on the cross.

1Pe 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

[KingOrfeo]

Archaeological Support The Bible:

https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/does-archaeology-support-the-bible/

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts. The Hebrews never made an exodus from Egypt; never conquered Canaan (where they were indigenous); and never had a united kingdom of Israel and Judah. All those stories were probably invented, to provide a national mythology, by Israelite priests sheltering in Judah after the Assyrian conquest of Israel. (The book is about history and archaeology, not biology.)

 

[KingOrfeo]

It's not just the eye that couldn't have evolved. It's the 4 chamber heart, the two sexes, understanding of music in animals and humans, the eye and many other systems.

Going from asexual to sexual reproduction is not a difficult step even at the level of microorganisms; diverging into specialized sexes is not a difficult next step either. And nobody "understands" music, you can only appreciate it. You can understand music theory, but that is a different matter.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It's time I get off the boards and deal with some of the issues that have me hiding here. Maybe I'll start that book.

You can do that and still post here.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Until they dig down deep in the Vatican archives and reveal a long supressed Gospel of Mary it is all hearsay.

Gospel of Mary.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Preaching in hell is like pushing the most impossible line.

Not at all. "See, people?! I told you so!"

 

[rocket_surgery]

Until they dig down deep in the Vatican archives and reveal a long supressed Gospel of Mary it is all hearsay.

Huh? The Gospel of Mary is accessible to anyone who wants to read it. Has been for a hundred years or more.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Gospel of Mary.

Damn, was sort of hoping it had an actual account of the supposed resurrection. Still a far better source than any of the others. She at least saw him die.

Was still probably grave robbers attempting to ensure he was not a further center of religious reformation. Fail!

 

[rocket_surgery]

Damn, was sort of hoping it had an actual account of the supposed resurrection. Still a far better source than any of the others. She at least saw him die.

Was still probably grave robbers attempting to ensure he was not a further center of religious reformation. Fail!

Don't get what you're looking for in regards to the resurection. It was not witnessed by anyone. The circumstances around it were but those are in the Bible.
As for grave robbers, doesn't make much sense. Taking His body would only confirm what most of His followers believed and really nobody much cared at the time. Jesus was barely known at the time of His death. Like any good artist He became famous later.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Was still probably grave robbers attempting to ensure he was not a further center of religious reformation. Fail!

That was not their motivation.

The pervs ye shall always have with you.

 

[Tryharder62]

Sorry to hear TryHarder62 is going.

I was just about to bring up what it takes to convince someone. Noah is the best example, since he was totally convinced that a Great Flood covered the Entire World, based only on the fact that a bird came back to his boat.

You can do that and still post here.

Ok. Sorry for my meltdown. Just a final rant. I can't even blame it on PMS because......well just because. (YES, I AM A GIRL) I really have been cursed with everything under the sun because of my faith. It does bother me but I don't melt down. Something just got me. I think it was that in this thread a Muslim posted and it seemed no one wanted to offend him/her. I had hoped they would continue posting ~ that would have been interesting. Then I always expect a thread like the Easter thread. In that thread someone reminded everyone that it was Passover also. The response was something like Happy Passover . WHAT Anyway....

I can't be sure of this, but I think Phrodeau probably knew me well enough to know I would check back to see if someone would answer his question. (I tried to find another site for Christian discussion and let me tell you that is wacked! You people are the bomb! )

So, I would like to come back and look at this thread. (Thank you!) I am moving in a positive direction and had a good day.

Personally, I don't think that there could be anything more convincing than God telling you what he is going to do and then doing it!!! I don't think Noah would have had the perception of the world that we do because of people into discovery and science. To him his world was gone. He did what he knew. He sent out a raven. Now raven's can survive on dead carcasses. If you think of all the people animals and such that were floating the raven could survive those so he didn't come back. A dove can't survive like that. Doves eat grains, weeds, herbs, and occassionally berries. Those things were all gone and there were no people to feed it. It had to come back to Noah to survive. Sounds pretty smart to me. Indeed his world was gone.

(Oh and thanks everybody)

 

[phrodeau]

Gen 7:20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits. 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

Who came up with this? How was it confirmed? Who measured how deep the water was? Could Noah have done that? If so, why didn't he measure it as it receded to mark its progress, instead of sending out birds?

Gen 8:6 After forty days Noah opened a window he had made in the ark 7 and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth. 8 Then he sent out a dove to see if the water had receded from the surface of the ground. 9 But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark.

The dove returned to the ark, where it had spent most of the last year, being fed and getting fresh water. Of course it did. But the ridiculous conclusion drawn is that it could find nowhere to perch and therefore the entire planet was underwater.

 

[Tryharder62]

Who came up with this? How was it confirmed? Who measured how deep the water was? Could Noah have done that? If so, why didn't he measure it as it receded to mark its progress, instead of sending out birds?The dove returned to the ark, where it had spent most of the last year, being fed and getting fresh water. Of course it did. But the ridiculous conclusion drawn is that it could find nowhere to perch and therefore the entire planet was underwater.

Noah could have done it. The phrase “fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail” does not mean that the Flood was only 15 cubits deep, for the phrase is qualified by the one which immediately follows: “and the mountains were covered.”

Because Genesis 6:15 tells us that the height of the Ark was 30 cubits, nearly all commentators agree that the phrase “fifteen cubits” in 7:20 must refer to how deep the Ark sank into the water. Such information adds further support for a universal Flood, because it tells us that the Flood “prevailed” over the tops of the highest mountains to a depth of at least 15 cubits. If the Flood had not covered
the mountains by at least such a depth, the Ark could not have floated over them during the five months in which the waters “prevailed” upon the earth.


Like I said, since God told Noah this was going to happen, he didn't need a lot of evidence to believe. What God told him had always been true.

 

[phrodeau]

Noah could have done it. The phrase “fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail” does not mean that the Flood was only 15 cubits deep, for the phrase is qualified by the one which immediately follows: “and the mountains were covered.”

Because Genesis 6:15 tells us that the height of the Ark was 30 cubits, nearly all commentators agree that the phrase “fifteen cubits” in 7:20 must refer to how deep the Ark sank into the water. Such information adds further support for a universal Flood, because it tells us that the Flood “prevailed” over the tops of the highest mountains to a depth of at least 15 cubits. If the Flood had not covered
the mountains by at least such a depth, the Ark could not have floated over them during the five months in which the waters “prevailed” upon the earth.


Like I said, since God told Noah this was going to happen, he didn't need a lot of evidence to believe. What God told him had always been true.

How did Noah know that his ark floated above the tallest mountains? Did a bird tell him?

It's too ridiculous. There is no geologic evidence for a global flood, lots of evidence against it, and no geologic mechanism that could cause it to happen without leaving any traces of it. Evidence for the pace and course of evolution make it impossible for every species to radiate from a single mountaintop a few thousand years ago. The current variety of genetic traits in humans likewise could never have come from only eight individuals, three of whom were sons of two others.