Wife says she's a sub, but not really

[allforfun86]

Hey everyone how are you doing today? Hopefully everyone's doing well lol. Well my post is about my wife in our dom/sub relationship and some issues that we're having, I'm hoping someone else has had this issue and may have advice or just a outsider with some insight.

Recently me and my wife have started a dom/sub relationship. I'm the dom and so far it's been only in the bedroom. Now my sub wife says she likes submitting and being my fuck toy, but honestly she's not really a sub. She has constant demands while we have our sessions and is constantly using our safe word red (meaning what we are doing is becoming uncomfortable and we need to change it, but not stop all together.). She claims that the bonds are to tight (yet they're loose enough she can pull her hands free) and also complains about where I cum, if it's a facial she'll do it begrudgingly and if it's anywhere else she complains about cleaning it up even though I offer to clean it up (with rags).

Now she does enjoy being talked down to, like being called a whore, cum slut and things like that. She also does enjoy being choked and spanked, yet it seems that if it's outside of those things, she has no interest and only complains.

I know that as the sub she sets the limits. Anything outside of those limits means she's not submitting but being abused and raped. So I respect those limits. But I also know that bdsm is also about pushing limits and stepping out of your comfort zone, yet it seems she refuses to. Ultimately the whole thing feels like she's trying to top from the bottom and won't please me.

I've tried establishing punishments and rules, but she blatantly disobeys them and complains. If I tell her she has to ask for permission before she can cum, then she'll just cum. If I try to "punish" her for that she calls red or black (our hard safe word meaning the session stops).

So now it seems the sessions have turned into her getting kinky sex with a little bondage that she wants with me getting nothing in return. It's turning the sessions into a chore and I have little desire to do them. I bought us journals when we first started this so that we could write down thoughts and feelings about our sessions. I've written several entries and asked her to read them, but she refuses and hasn't even touched her journal.

I've tried talking to her about this, but she has little interest in changing things or trying something new. I'm at a loss of what to do. I brought up bdsm and got her interested in it and for the most part she enjoys it, but only on her terms with no regards to me.

Does anyone have some advice? How to open her up more or be more aware of me and what I need?

P.s.
Sorry if the post reads awkward, I'm at work writing it as I can lol.

 

[John Blackhawk]

Yea this sounds like a situation where you two need to sit down and talk and basically "get on the same page" as the phrase goes. I also have to ask is she even interested in bdsm? Going by what you say it sounds alot like she's "humoring" you.

 

[allforfun86]

That's exactly how I feel about it. She's only doing it because she gets a little kink out of it and she's just letting me feel like the dom, and not very well.

 

[Lascivity]

It sounds as though she likes rough sex, rather than having a real innate interest in BDSM. A lot of women like being choked. A lot of women like being spanked. A lot of women like generally being manhandled. And for a lot of women that's as far as it goes. It seems as though your wife is into these things, but anything that errs towards a deeper BDSM / ownership / D/s dynamic doesn't really interest her.

It may be that your wife doesn't mentally draw a line between these things. She thinks it's all kinky sex, and doesn't realise that you want more or different. Or she might be well aware that you want something more from her, but simply be unwilling to give it.

The only way you can find out is by talking to her. My take is that she likes being treated roughly, but that's as far as her interest goes. But talk to her. Find out. That's really the only way forward that I can see.

 

[John Blackhawk]

Well let me repeat my previous point you two need to sit down and talk. Personally id say this is one of those rare times you can't take no for an answer. Because while i'm no psychological expert it's not hard to realize your type of situation is one that will turn toxic if you let it go on too long.

 

[Primalex]

So now it seems the sessions have turned into her getting kinky sex with a little bondage that she wants with me getting nothing in return.

Who is having sex with your wife?

It's turning the sessions into a chore and I have little desire to do them.
[..]
I've written several entries and asked her to read them, but she refuses and hasn't even touched her journal.

Maybe she considers writing a journal a chore and has little desire to do it.

 

[allforfun86]

It sounds as though she likes rough sex, rather than having a real innate interest in BDSM. A lot of women like being choked. A lot of women like being spanked. A lot of women like generally being manhandled. And for a lot of women that's as far as it goes. It seems as though your wife is into these things, but anything that errs towards a deeper BDSM / ownership / D/s dynamic doesn't really interest her.

It may be that your wife doesn't mentally draw a line between these things. She thinks it's all kinky sex, and doesn't realise that you want more or different. Or she might be well aware that you want something more from her, but simply be unwilling to give it.

That's something I hadn't thought of, I kinda assumed she did know the difference after I first brought it up.

 

[allforfun86]

Well let me repeat my previous point you two need to sit down and talk. Personally id say this is one of those rare times you can't take no for an answer. Because while i'm no psychological expert it's not hard to realize your type of situation is one that will turn toxic if you let it go on too long.

I know it'll become toxic if it continues, I have tried talking to her but I guess you're right about the jot taking no for a answer and talking anyways

 

[Blue]

I'm confused about your wording.
For clarification: You're a fledgling dom who's stuck in the predicament of not being happy with traditional copulation, but your wife is as normal as normal gets?

Choose:
* Discuss [Maybe you can get her to reciprocate some more but you can't make her enjoy what you enjoy.]
* Polyamory [Find another compatible partner on the side]
* Divorce-before-it-gets-sour [Self explanatory]

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I know it'll become toxic if it continues, I have tried talking to her but I guess you're right about the jot taking no for a answer and talking anyways

Be prepared for this to not go as you expect if you do push her to talk and refuse to take no for an answer. You don't know what's going on inside her head and this push may push her away.

She may have no idea that you aren't happy with how things are sexually. This may be very BDSM to her, even though you believe it's not. Use I Statements and avoid blaming her or attacking her, if that makes sense. I do agree that the situation can get toxic if left undiscussed, if left ignored, but I would be careful in the approach. A vulnerable, deliberately not intimidating position may lead to a more open and honest conversation.

 

[allforfun86]

Be prepared for this to not go as you expect if you do push her to talk and refuse to take no for an answer. You don't know what's going on inside her head and this push may push her away.

She may have no idea that you aren't happy with how things are sexually. This may be very BDSM to her, even though you believe it's not. Use I Statements and avoid blaming her or attacking her, if that makes sense. I do agree that the situation can get toxic if left undiscussed, if left ignored, but I would be careful in the approach. A vulnerable, deliberately not intimidating position may lead to a more open and honest conversation.

I already planned on that lol. She can get vary defensive sometimes, so I have to be careful when we discuss certain things or else she shuts down and turns it into an arguement.

 

[Kadee]

...but honestly she's not really a sub.

This jumped out at me.

If seems you may already have your answer.

My husband and I do not have a D/s relationship for this very reason. He is not dominant. He tried a few times for me, but it was a disaster. I thought, when I was younger and very naive, that I could turn him into a Dom. I was topping him from the bottom every single time. I hated it.

 

[allforfun86]

This jumped out at me.

If seems you may already have your answer.

My husband and I do not have a D/s relationship for this very reason. He is not dominant. He tried a few times for me, but it was a disaster. I thought, when I was younger and very naive, that I could turn him into a Dom. I was topping him from the bottom every single time. I hated it.

It didn't include this next part in the original post, but thats the reason I'm asking for advice. She insists that she's submitting and being my sub, I know she's at least not acting like one, but when I try to talk about it she refuses to listen or talk. In our everyday life I am the dominant one. I choose where we eat and things like that. So in that regards she is submissive and I thought that would translate to the bed room. Also she gets excited about our sessions, so I hoped that maybe I just wasn't being a good dom and may have needed to change something to make her a better sub. My op kinda got away from that point and I whined instead, sorry about that.

 

[Kadee]

It didn't include this next part in the original post, but thats the reason I'm asking for advice. She insists that she's submitting and being my sub, I know she's at least not acting like one, but when I try to talk about it she refuses to listen or talk. In our everyday life I am the dominant one. I choose where we eat and things like that. So in that regards she is submissive and I thought that would translate to the bed room. Also she gets excited about our sessions, so I hoped that maybe I just wasn't being a good dom and may have needed to change something to make her a better sub. My op kinda got away from that point and I whined instead, sorry about that.

Well, the fact that she refuses to listen or talk about it seems like a bigger problem. Communication is one of the most important aspects of a relationship as a whole.

I hope you work things out.

 

[Primalex]

Well, the fact that she refuses to listen or talk about it seems like a bigger problem.

Maybe, maybe not.

The patience to have recurring:"But why can't I cum on your face?!!!" discussions is fairly limited in every human.

I have the impression that she communicates very clearly her opinion and what works for her and what does not.

i.e. "She claims that the bonds are to tight (yet they're loose enough she can pull her hands free)."

That the OP does not like the information is not a communication issue.

 

[SilverBass]

Hey everyone how are you doing today? Hopefully everyone's doing well lol. Well my post is about my wife in our dom/sub relationship and some issues that we're having, I'm hoping someone else has had this issue and may have advice or just a outsider with some insight.

As I read your post, there is nothing about your sexual relationship with your wife that sounds anything like a true BDSM relationship to me. Actually your situation is similar to mine with my wife. I am dominant and she is submissive, generally speaking in life and sex, though I am not her Dom and she is not my sub. I call the shots in bed all the time and do to her what I want and know she enjoys, though she has hard limits and feels uncomfortable with some elements of sex, so even though I'd like to, we just don't go there. Even with some of the things she enjoys, sometimes she is just not in the mood for that, so we don't go there at that time. That is my submissive but non-BDSM-submissive wife. As much as I'd like to be her Dom, it just isn't that way for us.

Basically what you are telling us is that you just have allowable acts in the bedroom, and within what is allowed you play the dominant role. Just sounds to me like a normal, though kinky non-BDSM relationship. Your wife is submissive but not A submissive.

 

[allforfun86]

Maybe, maybe not.

The patience to have recurring:"But why can't I cum on your face?!!!" discussions is fairly limited in every human.

I have the impression that she communicates very clearly her opinion and what works for her and what does not.

i.e. "She claims that the bonds are to tight (yet they're loose enough she can pull her hands free)."

That the OP does not like the information is not a communication issue.

You seem to have not read, miss read, forgotten or ignored the part I mentioned where she wants the bondage aspect, although lightly which is fine. I mentioned that she gets excited for the sessions and wants them. Yet when she does or says something that confuses me or gives me concern about the session, she shuts me out. You seem to think she's dropping subtle hints and playing that bull shit game of "You need to know what's wrong with me even if I don't say anything." I don't. My wife knows that. She knows that I dumped and broke up with girls for playing stupid immature games like that. So if that's what she's doing then we have fallen far apart from one another and need a lot more help then anyone on here can offer.

 

[Kadee]

Maybe, maybe not.

The patience to have recurring:"But why can't I cum on your face?!!!" discussions is fairly limited in every human.

I have the impression that she communicates very clearly her opinion and what works for her and what does not.

i.e. "She claims that the bonds are to tight (yet they're loose enough she can pull her hands free)."

That the OP does not like the information is not a communication issue.

Very good point.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Are you sure the problem isn't you? Not to be mean, but you say "it's like she's trying to top from the bottom" or "the bondage is too tight when it's not" or "she uses her safe words during punishment". Those things, to me, sound like she doesn't like the way you are 'domming' her. It's her way of complaining. Or testing you to see what she can get away with. She's not satisfied...or the experience isn't what she thought it would be in her fantasies. Maybe she isn't submissive. Maybe it just sounded like fun because she likes the kinky parts. If she doesn't want to 'submit' to you, then you don't have the arrangement you thought you did. But already you've failed at being a good Dom by letting it go on this way. (Again, not trying to be mean, but it seems as if you have zero control here)

Explain to her that it isn't working out for you and tell her why. If she really wants to make an honest effort at being your sub, then set some rules that you both agree on and don't let her try to top you. If she isn't cooperating...stop the scene and explain why. And punishments don't have to be physical. It's whatever works, whatever is effective. Maybe just denying to cater to her whims, a time out, showing your disappointment in her bahavior is generally enough of a punishment if she is truly trying to please you.

If she isn't interested in submitting to you, stop playing BDSM games...neither one of you will come out satisfied. Just have kinky sex and enjoy the things she does want to do without the D/s part.

 

[allforfun86]

Are you sure the problem isn't you? Not to be mean, but you say "it's like she's trying to top from the bottom" or "the bondage is too tight when it's not" or "she uses her safe words during punishment". Those things, to me, sound like she doesn't like the way you are 'domming' her. It's her way of complaining. Or testing you to see what she can get away with. She's not satisfied...or the experience isn't what she thought it would be in her fantasies. Maybe she isn't submissive. Maybe it just sounded like fun because she likes the kinky parts. If she doesn't want to 'submit' to you, then you don't have the arrangement you thought you did. But already you've failed at being a good Dom by letting it go on this way. (Again, not trying to be mean, but it seems as if you have zero control here)

Explain to her that it isn't working out for you and tell her why. If she really wants to make an honest effort at being your sub, then set some rules that you both agree on and don't let her try to top you. If she isn't cooperating...stop the scene and explain why. And punishments don't have to be physical. It's whatever works, whatever is effective. Maybe just denying to cater to her whims, a time out, showing your disappointment in her bahavior is generally enough of a punishment if she is truly trying to please you.

If she isn't interested in submitting to you, stop playing BDSM games...neither one of you will come out satisfied. Just have kinky sex and enjoy the things she does want to do without the D/s part.

Thanks for the honesty, I honestly don't think it's me, but I'm not going to go there, but I'm open to it being me. I know part of it is my fault, but if she uses the safe words then I have to stop. What's messing me up is that she won't talk to me after or listen. I've had other online subs and they worked out great. I was told I was a great dom, so I'm not sure if I'm just not clicking with her in a d/s way or if it's something else. Thanks for the honesty.

 

[Nezhul]

She claims that the bonds are to tight (yet they're loose enough she can pull her hands free)

THis may be a problem with badly done ties or bad rope, rather them being tight or not. The bonds are chafing her, that's what she's saying. If you do your bondage good, they will be secure but won't feel at all. But if you do it badly, then they will hurt her wrists and ankles even if she can pull out.

Research better bondage techniques.

and also complains about where I cum, if it's a facial she'll do it begrudgingly and if it's anywhere else she complains about cleaning it up even though I offer to clean it up (with rags).

She also does enjoy being choked and spanked, yet it seems that if it's outside of those things, she has no interest and only complains.

Well, that's up to her.
What you fail to understand is that if she's a sub or your fucktoy - doesn't mean she doesn't have demands or preferences or things that plainly disturb her or turn her off.
It's totally fine for a sub to have a very strict list of preferences about what can and can not happen during the session. It's up to you to find a consensus.

If you think that you being a dom means that you can do whatever short of hurting her and she has to take it - I'm sorry, but you clearly don't know what you are doing.
Being a dominant is more a responsibility than any kind of freedom, really. A responsibility for sub's wellbeing and her needs being taken of before yours. Granted, there are some submissive or masochistic needs. Some people like being brought to tears during sessions - and that's a need too. People do that ONLY because the sub wants it, and never if she doesn't.

She has constant demands while we have our sessions and is constantly using our safe word red

That means you fuck up a lot.
Safe word means that you do stuff wrongly. Period. It's a red signal to you so you can adjust your behavior. You seem to be brushing that off for her whimseys, stuff that you need to ignore and move on to the next thing.

What you fail to understand is the importance of dialogue and communication, as well as the importance of your sub's experience. In ANY BDSM play, sub's experience comes before Dominant's experience. This may sound counter-intuitive, but that's how it is. All good dominants plan their sessions around the SUBMISSIVE, not according to their desires.

You start with waht she wants. What she finds hot. What she finds fulfilling and sexy. You plan that out.
You then go through things she hates or does reluctantly and would much rather not do. You take care to NEVER do that to her. Even if you want this. Depending on your dynamic, you may reserve some of the acceptable stuff for punishments, but that's the extent of it.

After the sessions you talk. Solve EVERY little complaint she has. You used the wrong word? You remember not to use it. The ropes were too tight? You remember to look into secure but caring bondage alternatives. And you actually NEVER use that tie that she complained about again. It doesn't mean she's being whimsical or peekish - it means your ropework sucked.
She says she liked something but didn't get enough of that? You remember that.
She complaint about the way you act? You change that.

BDSM scene is not about you. Not about the dom. It's about the sub. You are the one in power, and this doesn't mean that you can do stuff you want. No. This means it's up to you to make the scene perfect for BOTH.
In normal, vanilla sex both partners have power. Both can adjust or change position or do other stuff, take care of their needs. In BDSM, the sub doesn't have that. But your play still remains a consensual experience, and thus with the transfer of power to you, the responsibility also migrates to you.

But I also know that bdsm is also about pushing limits and stepping out of your comfort zone

That's optional, like everything else. This happens only if you want to (if she wants to). If she doesn't want her limits pushed - you simply don't push them. You accept what you have. You may bring up new stuff as you think of it, asking if she wants to try this or that.
Most subs, in time, broaden their limits. Accept harder spanking or tighter bondage. Not by being pushed into that - but by simply learning through experience.

You also seem to misunderstand the terms "To push the limits". It's not about going slightly over the limit into an uncomfortable zone. No. That is violation.
This phrase means that you get CLOSE to the limits to provide the intense experience, but never overstep them.

Ultimately the whole thing feels like she's trying to top from the bottom and won't please me.

No. This whole thing feels like you putting your own gratification above hers. Like you forcefully pushing her into the zone she doesn't want to cross.

It's not about pleasing you. Your pleasure is secondary to hers. Deal with it. Become a submissive - then you get to complain about your needs not being met and your master not doing a proper job.

But you don't complain about the sub. Never. All control is yours, if your play session are a disappointment - it's ultimately your problem. You have a sub, and you work with what you have. If she's into mild fluffy bondage with some namecalling and light spanking - then that's what you GET. You don't go ahead and try to push her to be something more.

Now, you can try to convince her to try stuff. Yes. And it's completely up to you to make sure that she likes it. If she doesn't like some stuff that you want to do - that's because you didn't do a proper job of making it pleasant for her.

I've tried establishing punishments and rules, but she blatantly disobeys them and complains. If I tell her she has to ask for permission before she can cum, then she'll just cum. If I try to "punish" her for that she calls red or black (our hard safe word meaning the session stops).

You are going the wrooong way about this.

She's clearly not the type of submissive you are picturing in your head. With some subs, punishments and rules don't work. But rewards will.
Some subs will never really be up for following your rules. They just want to play out certain fantasies like being tied up or spanked. They don't want the rules, and they definitely don't want the punishments, because that's not what they are into.
From her perspective, she didn't do anything wrong by disobeying you. And that's just it. She didn't do nothing wrong in the borders of ehr own definition of submission. You have to accept this.

So now it seems the sessions have turned into her getting kinky sex with a little bondage that she wants with me getting nothing in return.

Lol. You are getting kinky sex with a little bondage.

What other return are you hoping for?

It's turning the sessions into a chore and I have little desire to do them

Don't. Tell her that you are not into this stuff and want to just do vanilla.
Would you ratehr do vanilla than those kinky sessions? If yes, than that's what you'll have to do, especially if you don't really care to please her. But if you are saying that you want MORE than that - then I'm afraid I'm bursting your bubble right here and now and telling you that you probably won't get much more. Be happy with what you get, or else you should have married another person.

Again, there's nothing wrong with very light kink. She wants to be your fucktoy in name - that's fine. Doesn't mean this gets any further than kinky sex with a little bondage.
It's not like a sub HAS TO DO stuff. Never like that.

I brought up bdsm and got her interested in it and for the most part she enjoys it, but only on her terms with no regards to me.

What are your terms?
You should understand that getting someone interested in kink doesn't mean they will want it your way. I would go pretty extreame with a girlfriend if I could, but if she doesn't want that hardcore stuff - I'll just accept the littel things that she likes and work with that.

She got interested in kink. That's more than most people have, so you are aleady lucky.
She's not interested in trying new stuff because you fucked up. When you tried this "new stuff" before she didn't enjoy it, you wasn't good and thoughtful enough about this and her reaction. She basically doesn't trust you to make her enjoy the things you want to try.
The remedy is time. Show her you can be a good boy and please her with the little kink she likes. She will then trust you better and maybe agree to try somethign new. Depending on what it is, she may NEVER agree even to try it.

That's called "The Sub's Limits" - the thing you are allegedly aware of and respect.
Her limits are kinky sex with some rope. Live with that.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Thanks for the honesty, I honestly don't think it's me, but I'm not going to go there, but I'm open to it being me. I know part of it is my fault, but if she uses the safe words then I have to stop. What's messing me up is that she won't talk to me after or listen. I've had other online subs and they worked out great. I was told I was a great dom, so I'm not sure if I'm just not clicking with her in a d/s way or if it's something else. Thanks for the honesty.

Here are the possible reasons as I see them:

1) she doesn't really want to be your submissive (you should stop D/s play)
2) she is pushing you to get a different reaction from you (she doesn't like the way you're 'domming' her)
3) your ideas of D/s don't match up (you need to have an open discussion defining what you both want to get out of your arrangement)

And online subs are no comparison to real life activities. Can your online sub complain that you tied the ropes too tightly...or too loosely? Can your online subs tell if you spank their ass too hard or too many times...or not hard enough? Can they feel your dominance as they kneel at your feet? Do they know how to read that look in your eye or detect the change in the tone of your voice? Does an online sub have to share your bed at night and wake up in the morning next to you? Or spend a normal day sharing household chores and discussing finances with you? Being a Dom to your wife is much different. There are a lot more factors at play and a lot more at stake. Just saying...it's maybe more complicated than you think. There's no guidebook to follow. No right or wrong. Just finding common ground and 'understanding' each other.

 

[Primalex]

You seem to have not read, miss read, forgotten or ignored the part I mentioned where she wants the bondage aspect, although lightly which is fine.

Oh, trust me, I'm a very careful reader. I can even read every single post you've made here on Literotica (or your "blog").

then we have fallen far apart from one another and need a lot more help then anyone on here can offer.

This is my candidate #2.

I honestly don't think it's me, but I'm not going to go there, but I'm open to it being me.

I've had other online subs and they worked out great.

Yeah, well, welcome in the real world.


Okay, to be more constructive:

What did you actually expect - that you turn her into a mindless and emotionless sex robot that just does whatever you want, with three holes to use without any effort, just because you said:"Hey, let's try BDSM!" Come on, confess, that was your whole goal, because that is what you read and that is about how all your cute online subs worked. You texted them something to do and they just did it (or at least said so).

Seriously:
Your complaint is:"But I also know that bdsm is also about pushing limits and stepping out of your comfort zone." WTF is this for a reasoning to push someone limits?

Your complaint is that you think her bonds should be tighter.

Your complaint is that your wife only wants to get spanked, choked, degraded and fucked.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Your complaint is that your wife only wants to get spanked, choked, degraded and fucked.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Well, when you put it like that...all this advice seems pretty pointless! ☺

 

[Farawyn]

Oh, trust me, I'm a very careful reader. I can even read every single post you've made here on Literotica (or your "blog").



This is my candidate #2.







Yeah, well, welcome in the real world.


Okay, to be more constructive:

What did you actually expect - that you turn her into a mindless and emotionless sex robot that just does whatever you want, with three holes to use without any effort, just because you said:"Hey, let's try BDSM!" Come on, confess, that was your whole goal, because that is what you read and that is about how all your cute online subs worked. You texted them something to do and they just did it (or at least said so).

Seriously:
Your complaint is:"But I also know that bdsm is also about pushing limits and stepping out of your comfort zone." WTF is this for a reasoning to push someone limits?

Your complaint is that you think her bonds should be tighter.

Your complaint is that your wife only wants to get spanked, choked, degraded and fucked.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Well, when you put it like that...all this advice seems pretty pointless! ☺

'Cause he's right.