How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[xfrodobagginsx]

This Wikipedia link below lists over 150 different versions of the Bible...and these are just the ones in English ! Just another example of how things are never so black and white as we might wish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations

Here is some Bible 101 for you. The Bible wasn't written in english. It was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. It was TRANSLATED into english. Hence the different "versions" aka translations of the Bible. It's been translated into many many different languages, thank God for that.

 

[yukonnights]

Double post, and I cleaned up a couple of typos...see below (sorry

 

[Hard_Rom]

IMO it is good works that makes a good Christian.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I once was asked to become a Jehovah's Witness, but I couldn't because I didn't see the accident. *bad-dum-BUM!*

 

[yukonnights]

Here's another interesting article about Salvation from an Orthodox perspective. The Eastern Orthodox Church has an important place of respect in Christianity as those closest to the earliest Traditions and Doctrines, which then spread around the world. It may not be for everyone due to it's length, and I have omitted some of the discussion for brevity. The source information is provided for those who might want to read more.

This article demonstrates just how different are the interpretations of even the most basic of doctrines within Christianity. This is just a reality, and it behooves all of us to be curious and hopefully informed. I hope some will find it interesting ~

(PS: In regard to the comment in another post above about translations, etc; I was already aware that the original manuscripts were not written in English and assumed most knew that since English wasn't a language in the 1st century. I did find the great number of English translations interesting though and it speaks to the difficulty of the scholarship involved in any translation.)
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[The following excepts are from; The Orthodox Study Bible - New Testament and Psalms - New King James Version - Thomas Nelson Publishers - page 348 ]
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For most of Church history, salvation was seen as comprehending all of life: Christians believed in Christ, were baptized and were nurtured in their salvation in the Church. Key doctrines of faith centered around the Holy Trinity, the Incarnation of the Son of God and the Atonement.

In Western Europe during the sixteenth century, however, and even before, justifiable concern arose among the Reformers over a prevailing understanding that salvation depended on human works of merit, and not upon the grace and mercy of God. Many involved with the Reformation experienced a rediscovery of Romans 5. Their slogan became sola fides (Lat) : Justification by faith alone.

This Reformation debate in the West was late-breaking news for the Orthodox East: Why this new polarization of faith and works? It had been settled since the apostolic era that salvation was granted by the mercy of God. Those baptized into Christ were called to believe in Him and do good works. A discussion of faith versus works was unprecedented in Orthodox thought…..

(omitting detailed discussion due to length)….

….This is why the modern evangelical Protestant question, “Are you saved?” Gives pause to an Orthodox believer. Because the subject of salvation is addressed in Scripture, the Orthodox would see it in at least three aspects: (a) I have been saved, being joined to Christ in baptism; (b) I am being saved, growing in Christ through the sacramental life of the Church; and (c) I will be saved, by the mercy of God at the Last Judgement.

A final difficulty for Orthodox Christians is the word; alone. Justification by faith, though not the major New Testament doctrine for Orthodox as it is for Protestants, poses no problem. But, justification by faith alone brings up an objection. It contradicts Scripture, which says: “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone” James (2:17). We are “justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28), but nowhere does the Bible say we are justified by faith “alone”. On the contrary, “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17)…..(omitted last paragraph for brevity)

 

[KingOrfeo]

IMO it is good works that makes a good Christian.

See post #1185.

If the Christian God exists, I doubt He would damn a soul for errors in doctrine. St. Peter will not require you to pass a final exam in theology before he opens the gate. After all, Jesus never said you have to master abstruse points of religious philosophy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. He said you must become even as a little child, and little children are not philosophers. (I strive to follow this teaching by making messes when I eat and throwing tantrums every day.)

 

[yukonnights]

I once was asked to become a Jehovah's Witness, but I couldn't because I didn't see the accident. *bad-dum-BUM!*

That's a clever play on words

 

[yukonnights]

See post #1185.

If the Christian God exists, I doubt He would damn a soul for errors in doctrine. St. Peter will not require you to pass a final exam in theology before he opens the gate. After all, Jesus never said you have to master abstruse points of religious philosophy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. He said you must become even as a little child, and little children are not philosophers. (I strive to follow this teaching by making messes when I eat and throwing tantrums every day.)

This is actually a pressing question that has been a hot topic of debate since the earliest centuries. I have been reading about this quite a lot lately, but haven't formulated a final opinion...however, I am leaning strongly in the same direction as you. If you're interested I'll try to post something in the future. (oops, gotta run I just turned my milk glass over

 

[Maidboy]

http://dangerousintersection.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/god-explaining.jpg

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I once was asked to become a Jehovah's Witness, but I couldn't because I didn't see the accident. *bad-dum-BUM!*

JW is a cult that teaches false doctrine.

 

[EternalFantasies]

See post #1185.

If the Christian God exists, I doubt He would damn a soul for errors in doctrine. St. Peter will not require you to pass a final exam in theology before he opens the gate. After all, Jesus never said you have to master abstruse points of religious philosophy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. He said you must become even as a little child, and little children are not philosophers. (I strive to follow this teaching by making messes when I eat and throwing tantrums every day.)

Thing is, if you were the type who listened, took advice, leaped a faith one, ok.

But you won't. You put 'logic' above all and are unwilling, you will not, go on a path you do not predetermine in objective and outcome.

So long that is the case, you will remain in this status quo.

Not even this post i typed now would you believe.

Since it is so, you might as well just forget the subject, and go enjoy life a different way.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Here is some Bible 101 for you. The Bible wasn't written in english.

Heretic!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Thing is, if you were the type who listened, took advice, leaped a faith one, ok.

But you won't. You put 'logic' above all and are unwilling, you will not, go on a path you do not predetermine in objective and outcome.

So long that is the case, you will remain in this status quo.

Not even this post i typed now would you believe.

Since it is so, you might as well just forget the subject, and go enjoy life a different way.

The notion of salvation by faith, and the implication of damnation by its lack, is deeply morally repellent to any decent person. Why should God care whether you ever believed in Him?

 

[EternalFantasies]

Heretic!

The irony of these two posts. He only cares for the rational.

And those rational - apparently - morons are very far from the truth. As someone who can read the Bible in different languages I can assure you there are far better then the KJV; rather certain verses are almost impossible to understand unless you see them in a vision, then read them, or, if you know how to read in a different language than English.

The notion of salvation by faith, and the implication of damnation by its lack, is deeply morally repellent to any decent person. Why should God care whether you ever believed in Him?

See, but I already told you you wouldn't believe me.

 

[KingOrfeo]

See, but I already told you you wouldn't believe me.

"Believe" has nothing to do with it. I am here making an ethical, not a factual, judgment. If God exists and damning unbelievers is His policy, then I'm still right and He's still wrong.

 

[EternalFantasies]

"Believe" has nothing to do with it. I am here making an ethical, not a factual, judgment. If God exists and damning unbelievers is His policy, then I'm still right and He's still wrong.

Ok :thumpsup:

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Heretic!

No, a heretic is someone who pushes false doctrine. This is true. The Bible wasn't originally written in english. Everyone knows that.

 

[KingOrfeo]

No, a heretic is someone who pushes false doctrine. This is true. The Bible wasn't originally written in english. Everyone knows that.

WHHOOOSSSHHHH!!!!

 

[Tryharder62]

"Believe" has nothing to do with it. I am here making an ethical, not a factual, judgment. If God exists and damning unbelievers is His policy, then I'm still right and He's still wrong.

I think God wants us to believe so that he can share his love. He isn't wounded if we don't believe, he doesn't have that kind of ego. He wants the best for us. He doesn't want us to go to hell. His message is love. As a parent I only know I want the best for my kids but ultimately they eventually are going to live their lives the way they want to no matter how much I want them safe. I don't want them to have to struggle learning the lessons I had to learn the hard way. They will forge thier own path.

It is more than just believing. Satan believes in God and his reward will not be heaven.

 

[KingOrfeo]

He doesn't want us to go to hell.

Then He should not have made Hell.

 

[Tryharder62]

Then He should not have made Hell.

He didn't create it. In the six days of creation hell didn't exist when all of creations were complete. God said it was "good'. Hell didn't enter the picture until it was prepared for Satan after he was cast out of heaven. The reason that hell is so terrible is because God's attributes and His goodness are absent.

We get to enjoy God's goodness on the earth, even if we don't acknowledge him. Psalm 33:5 says " the earth is full of the goodness of the Lord." If we deny him though, we don't get to enjoy his goodness in the afterlife. We will finally experience his absence.

 

[KingOrfeo]

He didn't create it. In the six days of creation hell didn't exist when all of creations were complete. God said it was "good'. Hell didn't enter the picture until it was prepared for Satan after he was cast out of heaven.

Then God made it, just not on the same day as He made everything else.

 

[Tryharder62]

Then God made it, just not on the same day as He made everything else.

He created everything that was created in the days of creation. I guess it is splitting hairs to say prepared instead of made. It would be like preparing a guest room into a room for your mother-in-law. The room was there but it wasn't hell until momma needed it.

Seriously, there wasn't separation from God until Satan fell from heaven. God allows us to choose. He wants us to choose him. He doesn't make us.

 

[yukonnights]

Someone above brought up the subjects of cults. It's interesting that the word is always flung at another person in a derogatory way, but never one's self.

The definition of cult: 1) a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. 2) a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. 3) a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.

In regard to just Christians, it is clear from the statistics regarding the numbers of adherents to a particular sect, the Evangelical/Protestant/Pentecostal groups could very easily be considered 'cults' given that they are a relatively small group among all Christians. Other belief systems can just as easily fling 'cult' back at all of Christianity and would be technically correct.

I'm not saying that Protestants necessarily are cults...I'm much more an 'each to his own' kind of person... but, thought it worthwhile to mention that most often such statements come from pride. Pride puffs up and blinds, and is considered the root of the other Grievous Sins. -> [ 1. pride 2. greed 3.lust 4. anger 5. gluttony 6.envy 7. sloth ]

Whereas, the Fruit of the Spirit is 1. Love 2. Joy 3. Peace 4. Long-suffering 5. Kindness 6. Goodness 7. Faithfulness 8. Gentleness 9. Self-control [ Galatians 5:22-23 ]

This is important to consider when evaluating a particular opinion and wondering if it is worthy. If the opinion manifests the Fruit of the Spirit, then is it worthy of consideration. If it manifests pride and lacks the Fruit of the Spirit, then it is not.

 

[KingOrfeo]

This is important to consider when evaluating a particular opinion and wondering if it is worthy. If the opinion manifests the Fruit of the Spirit, then is it worthy of consideration. If it manifests pride and anger, then it is not.

Opinions formed in pride or anger are not always wrong.