How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[EternalFantasy]

Islam says Jesus was a prophet but not divine. That is the truth to you?

I thought I already told you once, not to waste your energy. I'll never explain this stuff to you.

Good luck finding someone who will.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I thought I already told you once, not to waste your energy. I'll never explain this stuff to you.

Good luck finding someone who will.

Finding someone who will explain Christianity to an infidel has always been dismally easy. Explaining it -- or, at least, proclaiming it -- is one of the Christian duties Jesus laid down. Now there's a celeb who knew how to build his fan club.

 

[EternalFantasy]

Finding someone who will explain Christianity to an infidel has always been dismally easy. Explaining it -- or, at least, proclaiming it -- is one of the Christian duties Jesus laid down.

Ya, sure. Those are plenty, go ask them.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I'm not postive but I think the Immaculate Conception is unique to Christianity.

Immaculate conception may not be what you think it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#Islam

The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, is the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the foreseen merits of her son Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was conceived by normal biological means in the womb of her mother, Saint Anne, but God acted upon her soul, keeping it "immaculate".

Some Western writers claim that the immaculate conception of Mary is a teaching of Islam. Thus, commenting in 1734 on the passage in the Qur'an, "I have called her Mary; and I commend her to thy protection, and also her issue, against Satan driven away with stones", George Sale stated: "It is not improbable that the pretended immaculate conception of the virgin Mary is intimated in this passage. For according to a tradition of Mohammed, every person that comes into the world, is touched at his birth by the devil, and therefore cries out, Mary and her son only excepted; between whom, and the evil spirit God placed a veil, so that his touch did not reach them. And for this reason they say, neither of them were guilty of any sin, like the rest of the children of Adam."

Others have rejected that the doctrine of Immaculate Conception exists in Islam, the Quranic account does not confirm the Immaculate Conception exclusively for Mary as in Islam every human child is born pure and immaculate, her sinless birth is thus independent of the Christian doctrine of original sin as no such doctrine exists in Islam.

Further claims were made that the Roman Catholic Church derives its doctrine from the Islamic teaching. In volume 5 of his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, published in 1788, Edward Gibbon wrote: "The Latin Church has not disdained to borrow from the Koran the immaculate conception of his virgin mother." That he was speaking of her immaculate conception by her mother, not of her own virginal conception of Jesus, is shown by his footnote: "In the xiith century the immaculate conception was condemned by St. Bernard as a presumptuous novelty." In the aftermath of the definition of the dogma in 1854, this charge was repeated: "Strange as it may appear, that the doctrine which the church of Rome has promulgated, with so much pomp and ceremony, 'for the destruction of all heresies, and the confirmation of the faith of her adherents', should have its origin in the Mohametan Bible; yet the testimony of such authorities as Gibbon, and Sale, and Forster, and Gagnier, and Maracci, leave no doubt as to the marvellous fact."

Without making Islamic belief the origin of the doctrine defined in 1854, a similarity between the two has been noted also by Roman Catholic writers such as Thomas Patrick Hughes, William Bernard Ullathorne, Giancarlo Finazzo.

Although the belief that Mary was sinless, or conceived with an immaculate soul, has been widely held since Late Antiquity, the doctrine was not dogmatically defined until 1854, by Pope Pius IX in his papal bull Ineffabilis Deus.

 

[nerfhearder]

Immaculate conception may not be what you think it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#Islam

The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, is the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the foreseen merits of her son Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was conceived by normal biological means in the womb of her mother, Saint Anne, but God acted upon her soul, keeping it "immaculate".

Some Western writers claim that the immaculate conception of Mary is a teaching of Islam. Thus, commenting in 1734 on the passage in the Qur'an, "I have called her Mary; and I commend her to thy protection, and also her issue, against Satan driven away with stones", George Sale stated: "It is not improbable that the pretended immaculate conception of the virgin Mary is intimated in this passage. For according to a tradition of Mohammed, every person that comes into the world, is touched at his birth by the devil, and therefore cries out, Mary and her son only excepted; between whom, and the evil spirit God placed a veil, so that his touch did not reach them. And for this reason they say, neither of them were guilty of any sin, like the rest of the children of Adam."

Others have rejected that the doctrine of Immaculate Conception exists in Islam, the Quranic account does not confirm the Immaculate Conception exclusively for Mary as in Islam every human child is born pure and immaculate, her sinless birth is thus independent of the Christian doctrine of original sin as no such doctrine exists in Islam.

Further claims were made that the Roman Catholic Church derives its doctrine from the Islamic teaching. In volume 5 of his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, published in 1788, Edward Gibbon wrote: "The Latin Church has not disdained to borrow from the Koran the immaculate conception of his virgin mother." That he was speaking of her immaculate conception by her mother, not of her own virginal conception of Jesus, is shown by his footnote: "In the xiith century the immaculate conception was condemned by St. Bernard as a presumptuous novelty." In the aftermath of the definition of the dogma in 1854, this charge was repeated: "Strange as it may appear, that the doctrine which the church of Rome has promulgated, with so much pomp and ceremony, 'for the destruction of all heresies, and the confirmation of the faith of her adherents', should have its origin in the Mohametan Bible; yet the testimony of such authorities as Gibbon, and Sale, and Forster, and Gagnier, and Maracci, leave no doubt as to the marvellous fact."

Without making Islamic belief the origin of the doctrine defined in 1854, a similarity between the two has been noted also by Roman Catholic writers such as Thomas Patrick Hughes, William Bernard Ullathorne, Giancarlo Finazzo.

Although the belief that Mary was sinless, or conceived with an immaculate soul, has been widely held since Late Antiquity, the doctrine was not dogmatically defined until 1854, by Pope Pius IX in his papal bull Ineffabilis Deus.

I'm well aware of what it is, that's why I said I think it might be unique to Christianity because I've never heard of it in any other religion. Far as I know only Christians have an issue with original sin.

 

[EternalFantasy]

I'm well aware of what it is, that's why I said I think it might be unique to Christianity because I've never heard of it in any other religion. Far as I know only Christians have an issue with original sin.

Hinduism & Ancient Egyptians.

 

[nerfhearder]

Hinduism & Ancient Egyptians.

For what? Original sin or Immaculate Conception or both?

 

[Hard_Rom]

I'm well aware of what it is, that's why I said I think it might be unique to Christianity because I've never heard of it in any other religion. Far as I know only Christians have an issue with original sin.

Many people take immaculate conception to mean Jesus was born to a virgin. But that is not the case. And we see here that in Islam all children are born pure and immaculate. So immaculate conception is NOT unique to Christianity. In fact is a late added doctrine of Christianity.

Original sin, the Christian doctrine of humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man, might be unique to Christianity. It is not found in most Jewish sects nor in Islam.

 

[Tryharder62]

I got invited to a church. Should I go?

Were you asked to go with someone? It can be weird alone. If you feel comfortable go. I think every church has it's own vibe. I've been comfortable in some and not comfortable in others. If you don't agree chalk it up to a learning experience to see what others consider worship.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Get in line in that processional
Step into that small confessional
There the guy's who's got religion'll
Tell you if your sin's original
If it is, try playin' it safer
Drink the wine and chew the wafer
2-4-6-8
Time to transubstantiate!
Make a cross on your abdomen
When in Rome, do like a Roman
Gettin' ecstatic and
Kinda dramatic and
Doin' the Vatican Rag!

 

[EternalFantasy]

For what? Original sin or Immaculate Conception or both?

If you look at it as "Sin" in the Christian sense you won't see it. and you can't separate them, coz it's immaculate meaning free from Sin.

So if you look for it like this you won't find it. There is no "sin" in Hinduism for example.

The concept is there, that's what I'm saying. Just not called or symbolized in the same way.

And it's a lot easier in Christianity, if its any help.

 

[nerfhearder]

Many people take immaculate conception to mean Jesus was born to a virgin. But that is not the case. And we see here that in Islam all children are born pure and immaculate. So immaculate conception is NOT unique to Christianity. In fact is a late added doctrine of Christianity.

Original sin, the Christian doctrine of humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man, might be unique to Christianity. It is not found in most Jewish sects nor in Islam.

I know what it is and what Islam has is different. The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary and only Mary. Islam doesn't believe that although they do like Mary and Jesus a lot.

 

[KingOrfeo]

If you look at it as "Sin" in the Christian sense you won't see it. and you can't separate them, coz it's immaculate meaning free from Sin.

So if you look for it like this you won't find it. There is no "sin" in Hinduism for example.

Of course there is. How does bad karma differ from sin?

 

[EternalFantasy]

nvm...

 

[EternalFantasy]

nvm...

 

[nerfhearder]

If you look at it as "Sin" in the Christian sense you won't see it. and you can't separate them, coz it's immaculate meaning free from Sin.

So if you look for it like this you won't find it. There is no "sin" in Hinduism for example.

The concept is there, that's what I'm saying. Just not called or symbolized in the same way.

And it's a lot easier in Christianity, if its any help.

I just wanted to know which one you were talking about, dude. I've never heard of the Immaculate Conception in any other religion and was curious. Original sin is somewhat different in that I've of course heard of similar concepts but not usually the way Christians view it. I don't know many of the ancient ones tho and hardly an expert on even modern ones.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Original Sin is in Genesis.

No, it isn't. Sin is in Genesis, but the book nowhere and in no way implies that every son of Adam is born tainted by it. Nor does any word of Jesus. It was that sick whirling bastard St. Paul who came up with that notion.

 

[EternalFantasy]

No, it isn't. Sin is in Genesis, but the book nowhere and in no way implies that every son of Adam is born tainted by it.

It's the Original Sin nonetheless.

Any Sin came before it?

 

[Hard_Rom]

Why speak of subject you're know nothing about.

You're not a Christian, and you're equating Judaism with your religion. Which is nonsense.

Original Sin is in Genesis. hehe..

Modern Judaism teaches that humans are born free of sin and choose to sin later bringing suffering to themselves. Genesis 8:21 and 6:5-8, God recognized that Adam did not willfully sin.

 

[nerfhearder]

No, it isn't. Sin is in Genesis, but the book nowhere and in no way implies that every son of Adam is born tainted by it. Nor does any word of Jesus. It was that sick whirling bastard St. Paul who came up with that notion.

Jews mostly believe we're born clean.

 

[EternalFantasy]

Modern Judaism teaches that humans are born free of sin and choose to sin later bringing suffering to themselves. Genesis 8:21 and 6:5-8, God recognized that Adam did not willfully sin.

Yea. And if you're without Sin, this works great for you.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It's the Original Sin nonetheless.

Any Sin came before it?

God made the Tree of Knowledge, and He alone made Hell. Those were the first sins, and God burns in Hell for them to this day, and burns there alone. Not even Satan keeps Him company.

 

[Tryharder62]

I copied this but Christianity did not copy from other religions, but fulfilled Judaism.

https://carm.org/christianity-copy-from-pagan-religions

 

[EternalFantasy]

God made the Tree of Knowledge, and He alone made Hell. That was the first sin, and God burns in Hell for it to this day, and burns there alone. Not even Satan keeps Him company.

That's because you knew i was gonna stop there

Good you capitalized the H at least.

 

[EternalFantasy]

I just wanted to know which one you were talking about, dude. I've never heard of the Immaculate Conception in any other religion and was curious. Original sin is somewhat different in that I've of course heard of similar concepts but not usually the way Christians view it. I don't know many of the ancient ones tho and hardly an expert on even modern ones.

Immaculate conception. But I added that they are linked, can't separate them.