Trump and the American Divide

[Emerson40]

I've just had a request to sign a petition to President Obama asking him to ensure, before he leaves office, that President-elect Trump should not have the power to use nuclear weapons.

I haven't and won't sign it.

I was in the Defence industry at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis. The whole point of the nuclear stand-off was that both sides couldn't predict how the other would react.

If the leaders of the USA and the USSR were predictable then the other side could act knowing what the response would be and plan for that response.

If they weren't predictable, the response was unknown and therefore could be disastrous for the attacker.

Whoever is President of the United States has the power to launch nuclear weapons. That power has kept the world from major conflict for seventy years.

If President-elect Trump is unpredictable, then the US's enemies will be worried.

That's how it should be.

This same thinking is why no one has locked Trump out of his Tweeting account.

 

[Hard_Rom]

27% of the possible voters elected him. Less than one third. And not even the majority. Doesn't sound like he stimulated anyone really. Still have 40% of voters totally uninterested. Closer to half than the less than third who voted for him or her. Stimulate and captivate the silent 40% and lets talk about making changes.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

How long are you going to carry that around as if it meant anything, anything at all...

 

[oggbashan]

President-elect Trump won by the rules that cover the election of US Presidents.

You think that's unrepresentative and biased? Blame the system, not the person who won within the rules.

All modern US Presidents were elected under the current system. You don't think one is legitimate? Then none were.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Putin, Obama and Trump
Victor Davis Hanson, NRO

For eight years, the Obama administration misjudged Vladimir Putin’s Russia, as it misjudged most of the Middle East, China, and the rest of the world as well. Obama got wise to Russia only when Putin imperiled not just U.S. strategic interests and government records but also supposedly went so far as to tamper with sacrosanct Democratic-party secrets, thereby endangering the legacy of Barack Obama.

Putin was probably bewildered by Obama’s media-driven and belated concern, given that the Russians, like the Chinese, had in the past hacked U.S. government documents that were far more sensitive than the information it may have mined and leaked in 2016 — and they received nothing but an occasional Obama “cut it out” whine. Neurotic passive-aggression doesn’t merely bother the Russians; it apparently incites and emboldens them.

Obama’s strange approach to Putin since 2009 apparently has run something like the following. Putin surely was understandably angry with the U.S. under the cowboy imperialist George W. Bush, according to the logic of the “reset.” After all, Obama by 2009 was criticizing Bush more than he was Putin for the supposed ills of the world. But Barack Obama was not quite an American nationalist who sought to advance U.S. interests. Instead, he posed as a new sort of soft-power moralistic politician — not seen since Jimmy Carter — far more interested in rectifying the supposed damage rather than the continuing good that his country has done. If Putin by 2008 was angry at Bush for his belated pushback over Georgia, at least he was not as miffed at Bush as Obama himself was.

...

In other words, there were realist avenues for cooperation that hinged on a strong and nationalist U.S. clearly delineating areas where cooperation benefitted both countries (and the world). Other spheres in which there could be no American–Russian consensus could by default have been left to sort themselves out in a may-the-best-man-win fashion, hopefully peaceably.

Such détente would have worked only if Obama had forgone all the arc-of-history speechifying and the adolescent putdowns, meant to project strength in the absence of quiet toughness....

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/443903/print


Great points on how Obama has left us in a perilous position in the geopolitical sphere abroad as well as leaving us divided at home.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

President-elect Trump won by the rules that cover the election of US Presidents.

You think that's unrepresentative and biased? Blame the system, not the person who won within the rules.

All modern US Presidents were elected under the current system. You don't think one is legitimate? Then none were.

And it is always a subset of the population that actually bothers to vote.

I don't know if that is good or bad, but everyone who runs knows the game.

 

[oggbashan]

And it is always a subset of the population that actually bothers to vote.

I don't know if that is good or bad, but everyone who runs knows the game.

For many of them who are not in so-called swing states it doesn't matter who they vote for, even Donald Duck. The state will be as blue or red as it has always been.

In the UK it's the same. In most of the electoral districts of my county, Kent, it is very rare to get any Member of Parliament who is not Conservative. The candidate selected by the local party boss, however stupid, will be the MP.

In other parts of England the Labour party is/was in the same position. They could nominate a monkey and he'd be elected.

The system disenfranchises millions of voters.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

For many of them who are not in so-called swing states it doesn't matter who they vote for, even Donald Duck. The state will be as blue or red as it has always been.

In the UK it's the same. In most of the electoral districts of my county, Kent, it is very rare to get any Member of Parliament who is not Conservative. The candidate selected by the local party boss, however stupid, will be the MP.

In other parts of England the Labour party is/was in the same position. They could nominate a monkey and he'd be elected.

The system disenfranchises millions of voters.

Yes, a point I made many times during the election here and in real life when explaining why I would vote for neither major candidate.

If the popular vote were all that mattered, I would have voted against the Clinton Crime Family in a more decisive way.

PS - Even more millions voluntarily disenfranchise themselves by simply not voting. :shrug:

It gives the states proportional franchise, as it should, since this is a Republic, not a City-State.

 

[water505]

As I see it these people are hung up on the US being a democracy where the majority (the mob) rules.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

As I see it these people are hung up on the US being a democracy where the majority (the mob) rules.

Remember, that is only situational. You take it issue by issue and see how plastic their love of the mob is on a host of social issues. The only reason they are hung up on this point now is the anger and confusion over losing an election that all of their media was assuring them was in the bag. I bet that most of those people who voted in California in such numbers were doing so only to say they had a hand in history, the first female President. Had the fall of the Blue Wall been called earlier, you would have seen their vote totals drop dramatically...

As Ogg pointed out, if you're in California, all of your electoral votes are going to the Democrat, the only real reason to vote is the symbolism of the act.

 

[BotanyBoy]

As Ogg pointed out, if you're in California, all of your electoral votes are going to the Democrat, the only real reason to vote is the symbolism of the act.

As far as federal goes yea.

We'll be re-electing Pelosi 400 fucking years after she dies.

Only reason I vote is for local shit.

Was the same way with (R) in Texas....if you're not a (R) fanatic to the core then you're just living in the wrong state and you need to move.

Neither is really better over all, just which brand of control freak assholes you want to deal with.

Want them leaving your body/bedroom alone? Go (D), but don't expect to be making any money for yourself now....that's only for elite well connected (D)'s.

Want economic freedom? Go (R), but they want to tell you alllllllllll about what you can and can't do with your genitals, other consenting adults and your medical care, and fun is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN!!!

Commie fuckers, I hope Trump crams so much wonderful socialism up (D)'s and (R)'s asses the USA fuckin' implodes on itself.

 

[Ishmael]

Remember, that is only situational. You take it issue by issue and see how plastic their love of the mob is on a host of social issues. The only reason they are hung up on this point now is the anger and confusion over losing an election that all of their media was assuring them was in the bag. I bet that most of those people who voted in California in such numbers were doing so only to say they had a hand in history, the first female President. Had the fall of the Blue Wall been called earlier, you would have seen their vote totals drop dramatically...

As Ogg pointed out, if you're in California, all of your electoral votes are going to the Democrat, the only real reason to vote is the symbolism of the act.

There is a Soros powered initiative underway to have a coalition of states band together and pledge, communally, their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote. A suicide pact as it were. I have no idea whether this gambit can pass Constitutional muster.

Ishmael

 

[Lancecastor]

Soros, soros, soro.....

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We currently have four justices who would green-light it in a heartbeat and a Chief Justice who can be pressured into doing the right thing by his friends and peers.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

America is a federal republic NOT A DEMOCRACY. In theory each state and the federal government are equal players, WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NOT THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA.

Consequently, each state makes its own election rules. I recall when some states allowed voting at 18, and others had diverse ages, most 21, a few 19 or 20. So the electoral vote was created to mute the influence of liberal voting rules. Immediately following our Civil War Federal Military officials limited voting to blacks only in the Southern States. But no state gets more influence than its electoral vote.

Democrats know this. Republicans know this. Electoral vote seriously discourages fraud in large states that favor one party, like California. Fraud there is pointless.

 

[Lancecastor]

Why are Americans such pussies about losing an election every 4 or 8 years?

Bitch and whine, bitch and whine.

Great divide, your ass.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You did not bother to read the article and this makes your comment pretty much nonsense, a weak attempt at being funny, and possibly stir some shit by calling Americans pussies...

 

[Lancecastor]

You did not bother to read the article and this makes your comment pretty much nonsense, a weak attempt at being funny, and possibly stir some shit by calling Americans pussies...

I regret to say I read the whole thing.

And yeah, you guys are whining pussies about your precious elections.

Like the other 60% of posters here care.