How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[phrodeau]

Neither gravity nor evolution is proven. The evidence supporting both theories is substantial, and alternative theories like intelligent design are entirely unsupported.

 

[Lancecastor]

If you put the stuff about accepting jesus as your savior in your Will, is that enough to get in?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

If you put the stuff about accepting jesus as your savior in your Will, is that enough to get in?

Nope. It has to be genuine.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Nope. It has to be genuine.

Says you.

I chose to be a Calvinist because then I can do whatever I want as my destiny has already been determined.

 

[txgent101]

Definition of 'Heaven'?

Perhaps it would help the tone of this thread if we could agree on a definition of 'heaven'. What is it? Where is it? Is it a physical place? My own ideas are colored by C.S. Lewis as I have written before. Try his "The Great Divorce". Or the last chapter of his 7th Chronicle of Narnia: "The Last Battle".

Of course, someone's take may be that there is no heaven, so no answer would logically apply to them.

 

[Conager]

Says you.

I chose to be a Calvinist because then I can do whatever I want as my destiny has already been determined.

You were obviously destined to think that way.

I used to let the Jehovah's Witnesses in, because it seemed like the polite thing to do I figured if they feel like they're deriving a benefit from spreading their word it's not going to hurt me to listen a few minutes. My momentary inconvenience I thought would be overshadowed by their chance of having a chance to share the word.

Turns out they mostly just go for the pleasure of having door shut in their faces and handing out pamphlets.

They didn't really have much to say at all about their faith.

After a while I had a bit of a collection of their pamphlets and read them all because I read everything.

Near as I could tell Heaven is already full according to them. They believe that heaven will contain I think 144,000 Souls. Which by the way is a number much smaller than the current membership of their Church. I can see why they're reticent about converting me; it would bump one of their friends or family members off the list.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Says you.

I chose to be a Calvinist because then I can do whatever I want as my destiny has already been determined.

2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Perhaps it would help the tone of this thread if we could agree on a definition of 'heaven'. What is it? Where is it? Is it a physical place? My own ideas are colored by C.S. Lewis as I have written before. Try his "The Great Divorce". Or the last chapter of his 7th Chronicle of Narnia: "The Last Battle".

Of course, someone's take may be that there is no heaven, so no answer would logically apply to them.

When referring to "Heaven" we are generally referring to the 3rd heaven. The first heaven is the atmosphere of the earth, the second heaven is outer space where the stars reside and the 3rd heaven is above them. It is generally regarded as a spiritual place where God dwells. His saints are also there with Him. Jesus ascended up to heaven after the resurrection and will return to the earth from there in His time.

 

[phrodeau]

When referring to "Heaven" we are generally referring to the 3rd heaven. The first heaven is the atmosphere of the earth, the second heaven is outer space where the stars reside and the 3rd heaven is above them. It is generally regarded as a spiritual place where God dwells. His saints are also there with Him. Jesus ascended up to heaven after the resurrection and will return to the earth from there in His time.

But once Jesus got past the first heaven, he would have been fried by the radiation in the second heaven on the way to the third.

I suppose he could have been resurrected again once he got to the third heaven, but what will he do on the way back?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

But once Jesus got past the first heaven, he would have been fried by the radiation in the second heaven on the way to the third.

I suppose he could have been resurrected again once he got to the third heaven, but what will he do on the way back?

After the resurrection, Jesus had a Spiritual body that will never die or be destroyed. If you read the gospels, He was able to teleport, He ate and drank, He ascended up into heaven. His body could never be destroyed again. It's the same body that Christians will be given in the resurrection.

 

[phrodeau]

After the resurrection, Jesus had a Spiritual body that will never die or be destroyed. If you read the gospels, He was able to teleport, He ate and drank, He ascended up into heaven. His body could never be destroyed again. It's the same body that Christians will be given in the resurrection.

Contradiction in terms. He's either spiritual or a body. No such thing as a spiritual body.

 

[Hypoxia]

Heaven is the sky (cielo in Spanish, same root as ceiling), the abode of sky gods. Beyond the sky is vacuum -- not really a comfortable place for souls. Remember that 'soul' means breath. A living, breathing person was traditionally (in Ænglish) referred to as a 'soul', as in, "The town was filled with a thousand souls." Y'all gonna have a hard time breathing in vacuum. Don't inhale.

BTW Yeshua said that rich folks won't go the heaven. Tromp can thus avoid the vacuum.

 

[nerfhearder]

Contradiction in terms. He's either spiritual or a body. No such thing as a spiritual body.

Bible says there is and since this discussion is about the Bible...

 

[nerfhearder]

When referring to "Heaven" we are generally referring to the 3rd heaven. The first heaven is the atmosphere of the earth, the second heaven is outer space where the stars reside and the 3rd heaven is above them. It is generally regarded as a spiritual place where God dwells. His saints are also there with Him. Jesus ascended up to heaven after the resurrection and will return to the earth from there in His time.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about and I suspect that you are aware of that.

 

[phrodeau]

Bible says there is and since this discussion is about the Bible...

It says God made man in His own image, but I'll bet that God doesn't have a navel.

 

[Hypoxia]

It says God made man in His own image, but I'll bet that God doesn't have a navel.

{JHWH} obviously has bad teeth, bad back, rotten tonsils and appendix, flatulence, corns, pimples, cooties, eczema, halitosis, smelly underarms, lice, sniffles, and mood swings, like the rest of us.

 

[phrodeau]

{JHWH} obviously has bad teeth, bad back, rotten tonsils and appendix, flatulence, corns, pimples, cooties, eczema, halitosis, smelly underarms, lice, sniffles, and mood swings, like the rest of us.

But God's recurrent laryngeal nerve is a wonder of design.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

It says God made man in His own image, but I'll bet that God doesn't have a navel.

Jesus Christ has one.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

But God's recurrent laryngeal nerve is a wonder of design.

Man wasn't designed to die. It's the result of sin. That's what Jesus came to save us from.

 

[Conager]

Man wasn't designed to die. It's the result of sin. That's what Jesus came to save us from.

Babies get here as designed, and without sin. Sadly, some die.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Babies get here as designed, and without sin. Sadly, some die.

Sin causes the innocent to suffer as well as the guilty.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

Sin causes the innocent to suffer as well as the guilty.

Utterly preposterous.

1. The Bible states that no one is innocent, not even one, so you're making that "innocent" up all on your own.

That's called blasphemy.

2. If God is the Creator of everything, then sin must be among His creations, too. And if God only creates everything to be good for His children, sin must have a good purpose.

Sin represents the darkness to God's light, spiritual death to God's promise of eternal Life. God purposely made two paths so that each of us is fully free to long for one or the other, the ultimate individual liberty, the ultimate free choice.

Lucifer had that individual liberty, that free choice, and Eve did, too.

Sin doesn't cause anyone to suffer - it is the person who chooses to sin who causes her own suffering, and it is God who sentences us to spiritual death (eternal separation from Him) for choosing sin over His gracious offer of Life.

Sin's good purpose is to be the unmistakably clear example for what God cannot abide, so that we may learn and then fully understand how humanly impossible it is as sinners to ever have the relationship with Him that He created us for in the first place.

 

[Tryharder62]

I don't think sin was created. It is just the absence of God. Like darkness is simply the absence of light. You don't need a savior or a relationship with one unless there is something desirable that each bring to the relationship. You don't need the light if you are comfortable in the darkness. He just gives us a choice instead of forcing us to keep the high beams on.

 

[txgent101]

Man wasn't designed to die. It's the result of sin. That's what Jesus came to save us from.

From Steve Jobs Commencement Speech, Stanford 2005.
http://news.stanford.edu/2005/06/14/jobs-061505/

"No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary."

 

[Conager]

Sin causes the innocent to suffer as well as the guilty.

Your being here is a sin. Which innocents will suffer for to your sins?

Original sin is a stupid concept, not supported by scripture. A child is born blameless. If an individual has commited no sins, they require no redemption.