2 PBS Specials on Pearl Harbor

[pink]

I wanted to share these.



USS Arizona Special
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFPZnqoXHrM



USS Oklahoma Special
http://www.pbs.org/program/pearl-harbor-uss-oklahoma-final-story/





Watching these was emotional. I taped them and then watched them several days apart.

 

[Not Normal]

I forgot about those. I've been watching Soundbreaking, so I saw the promos.

 

[about_average]

I haven't watched it yet (my brother sent me a text about the Oklahoma one while I was at the airport).
Definitely going to though, particularly on the USS Oklahoma. My dad served on it in 1941 (transferred off before the attack) and my uncle died on it, presumably trapped below decks since that was his battlestation, his remains never identified.

 

[RoryN]

I never thought they'd go there, since it's technically an open grave.

But the footage was something else. All the old 40s fixtures, still in place. And that jacket!

 

[pink]

http://www.history.com/specials/pearl-harbor-75-years-later/full-special



Wanted to bump this thread for today.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Dear Japan, on behalf of all Democrats, we apologize for Pearl Harbor.

 

[Lancecastor]

As far as death goes, Pearl Harbour wasn't a very big deal.

In total, 2,403 Americans died and 1,178 were wounded

9/11 was a much better hit.

During the September 11 attacks in 2001, there were 2,996 people killed and more than 6,000 others wounded.

Even the WW1 Halifax Explosion in 1917 was better...but because Lit is primarily American, most here are ignorant about it.

Approximately 2,000 people were killed by blast, debris, fires and collapsed buildings, and an estimated 9,000 others were injured.

Pearl Harbour by today's standards is only of interest because the notion that a fleet could "sneak up" on anyone is so patently retarded...and the way in which Americans make killing their own a religious/political touchstone for purposes of social control.

I much prefer the theory that Pearl Harbour was accidently on purpose as a political pawn sacrifice to give political will to enter the war.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

As far as death goes, Pearl Harbour wasn't a very big deal.



9/11 was a much better hit.



Even the WW1 Halifax Explosion in 1917 was better...but because Lit is primarily American, most here are ignorant about it.



Pearl Harbour by today's standards is only of interest because the notion that a fleet could "sneak up" on anyone is so patently retarded...and the way in which Americans make killing their own a religious/political touchstone for purposes of social control.

I much prefer the theory that Pearl Harbour was accidently on purpose as a political pawn sacrifice to give political will to enter the war.

I subscribe to the axiom: THE MEANING OF ANYTHING ARE THE RESULTS YOU GET.

Did Roosevelt know the attack was coming? All our aircraft carriers left Pearl Harbor immediately before the attack. Not one or two but all. Douglas MacArthur sat on his ass until the minute Japan attacked Manila. His whole air force was caught on the ground. In December 1941 Hitler was poised to crush Russia and Britain.

 

[Lancecastor]

I subscribe to the axiom: THE MEANING OF ANYTHING ARE THE RESULTS YOU GET.

Did Roosevelt know the attack was coming? All our aircraft carriers left Pearl Harbor immediately before the attack. Not one or two but all. Douglas MacArthur sat on his ass until the minute Japan attacked Manila. His whole air force was caught on the ground. In December 1941 Hitler was poised to crush Russia and Britain.

I can usually make some sense out of what you write.

Not this time; perhaps you could rephrase for me, thx.

 

[about_average]

As far as death goes, Pearl Harbour wasn't a very big deal.

That's not the reason the Pearl Harbor attack is remembered.

Pearl Harbor by today's standards is only of interest because the notion that a fleet could "sneak up" on anyone is so patently retarded...and the way in which Americans make killing their own a religious/political touchstone for purposes of social control.

No, it's because it took the US in to the war that would be known as WWII. There were millions of deaths that could conceivably be said to be a result of the attack.

 

[Lancecastor]

That's not the reason the Pearl Harbor attack is remembered.

No, it's because it took the US in to the war that would be known as WWII. There were millions of deaths that could conceivably be said to be a result of the attack.

Please keep in mind I am Canadian....before Pearl Harbour, the USA's only contributions to the war effort were to sit on its hands while blind-eyeing the sale of supplies to the other side.

Americans are the best at jingoism, I can't disagree with you there.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

And here we see progressive "science" even being applied to Pearl Harbor today, 75 years after the fact, in which differing personal opinions are somehow more pertinent than the truth that anyone who speaks of it in this thread has absolutely no empirical knowledge of it at all.

 

[Lancecastor]

And here we see progressive "science" even being applied to Pearl Harbor today, 75 years after the fact, in which differing personal opinions are somehow more pertinent than the truth that anyone who speaks of it in this thread has absolutely no empirical knowledge of it at all.

Well....don't be a pussy... fill us in!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I can usually make some sense out of what you write.

Not this time; perhaps you could rephrase for me, thx.

Shit happens. It can be explained all kinds of ways, but it sure as hell happened. Every aircraft carrier in the Pacific Fleet fled Hawaii just before the Japs attacked. The carriers were essential to stop the Japs at the Coral Sea and Midway. While every other ship, airplane, and swinging dick was parked awaiting destruction.

The whole deal was too cute, and we broke the Jap code just in the nick of time for Midway. Seems to me we knew whazzup before Pearl. Riisevelt was a treacherous mother fucker.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

Well....don't be a pussy... fill us in!

About what?

 

[Lancecastor]

Shit happens. It can be explained all kinds of ways, but it sure as hell happened. Every aircraft carrier in the Pacific Fleet fled Hawaii just before the Japs attacked. The carriers were essential to stop the Japs at the Coral Sea and Midway. While every other ship, airplane, and swinging dick was parked awaiting destruction.

The whole deal was too cute, and we broke the Jap code just in the nick of time for Midway. Seems to me we knew whazzup before Pearl. Riisevelt was a treacherous mother fucker.

Okay, now I understand what you meant.

It's always hard to know with history because there are so many people with their fingers in the pie of what we are supposed to believe.

But I like this one from Hawaii, Nov 30, a week before the attack:

http://warisacrime.org/sites/afterdowningstreet.org/files/images/pearl2.jpg

About what?

Fuck off, lightweight, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[about_average]

Please keep in mind I am Canadian....before Pearl Harbour, the USA's only contributions to the war effort were to sit on its hands while blind-eyeing the sale of supplies to the other side.

Yeah, I realize. That's one reason I changed "us" to "the US"
I'm well aware the US made fairly "feeble" contributions prior to Dec 7, but that doesn't alter the reason for remembering it.

And here we see progressive "science" even being applied to Pearl Harbor today, 75 years after the fact, in which differing personal opinions are somehow more pertinent than the truth that anyone who speaks of it in this thread has absolutely no empirical knowledge of it at all.

What "truth" and which "it" are you referring to?

The "truth" that the attack was a plot by Roosevelt?
Like 9-11 was a plot by Bush?

A lot of choices, taken individually by different people, can be utterly harmless, or at most cause very minor harm, but when they all happen in close proximity they can result in great harm.

There's no mystery in the two CV's based at Pearl being away. The Lexington and Enterprise were delivering fighters to Midway, the only way to get operational fighters there.

 

[about_average]

Shit happens. It can be explained all kinds of ways, but it sure as hell happened. Every aircraft carrier in the Pacific Fleet fled Hawaii just before the Japs attacked. The carriers were essential to stop the Japs at the Coral Sea and Midway. While every other ship, airplane, and swinging dick was parked awaiting destruction.

There were only two based at Pearl in the run-up to the 7th.

The whole deal was too cute, and we broke the Jap code just in the nick of time for Midway. Seems to me we knew whazzup before Pearl. Riisevelt was a treacherous mother fucker.

Umm, no, it was broken before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

[Lancecastor]

I'm well aware the US made fairly "feeble" contributions prior to Dec 7, but that doesn't alter the reason for remembering it.

Agreed, it's certainly an important date in American history and your family's history.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

The "truth" I refer to is that which you, I, and Lancecastor cannot possibly know since our differing opinions on what - and for whatever reasons - actually happened on that infamous day are entirely gleaned second-handedly, at best.

The truth exists fully and independently of whatever differing opinions any of us have. Sadly, some of our egos insecurely refuse to accept that reality, instead needing to continually project how much we feel rather than simply admit we have no empirical knowledge of what we speak.

The wisest one naturally understands how very, very, very little he actually knows.

 

[about_average]

The "truth" I refer to is that which you, I, and Lancecastor cannot possibly know since our differing opinions on what - and for whatever reasons - actually happened on that infamous day are entirely gleaned second-handedly, at best.

The truth exists fully and independently of whatever differing opinions any of us have. Sadly, some of our egos insecurely refuse to accept that reality, instead needing to continually project how much we feel rather than simply admit we have no empirical knowledge of what we speak.

The wisest one naturally understands how very, very, very little he actually knows.

Oh, I see. Ok, you've won me over. I'm going to quit taking an interest in anything that I wasn't actually involved with.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Okay, now I understand what you meant.

It's always hard to know with history because there are so many people with their fingers in the pie of what we are supposed to believe.

But I like this one from Hawaii, Nov 30, a week before the attack:

http://warisacrime.org/sites/afterdowningstreet.org/files/images/pearl2.jpg




Fuck off, lightweight, you're embarrassing yourself.

There yuh go. I suspect MacArthur was told to stand down, too. Roosevelt had around 250 Russian agents in his administration. Stalin would benefit from us getting in the war. Stalin prolly reminded Roosevelt of it at Yalta.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

I accept your lame backtrack to "interest".

Perhaps you'll begin actually disciplining your insecure ego to practically retain the natural differences between feelings and knowledge, opinions and truth?

 

[oggbashan]

Please keep in mind I am Canadian....before Pearl Harbour, the USA's only contributions to the war effort were to sit on its hands while blind-eyeing the sale of supplies to the other side.

Americans are the best at jingoism, I can't disagree with you there.

That ignores the significant intervention that was Lend-Lease:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

Despite an apparently neutral status the US was anything but. The public mood prior to Pearl Harbor was 'not our war' and Lend-Lease was an amazing act that many US citizens were very unhappy about.

Pearl Harbor, and Hitler's stupidity in declaring war on the USA, changed the voters' mood overnight. But even if the preparations for the attack on Pearl Harbor had been detected and the troops had been in a defensive position, the attack without a prior declaration of war would have been enough to anger the US public to fury.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

Unbelievable.