December 19th - The Electoral College Can Change Their Minds

[Chris_Michael]

This is something I also saw on my professional news source, Yahoo!News.

Say what you will about the Electoral College, but BOTH parties have used it in their favor. Granted, the Democrats win the popular vote more often than Republicans. It truly is a double-edged sword, one that candidates have fought by and one that they have died by.

Hilary Clinton undoubtedly won the popular vote. This is a big issue among protesters who want the Electoral College to change it's mind between now and 12/19/16. However, what I find to be funny is how Democrats were prancing around saying that Hilary would win 300 electoral votes easily.

Unfortunately for those people, that did not happen. So, the irony is that those who were laughing about Trump not saying he would concede to a loss is that they are refusing to take the L. It's not like people were modestly projecting that Clinton would win a tight battle and definitely win the popular vote. No no, they left the popular vote off the table prior to that evening's election. Now, 500,000 people have signed a petition for the Electoral College to do the... uhh... right thing... which is the left thing.

I mean, it's highly improbable that we'll see a change in December. This is something that has never happened before in American history. BUT it is possible. Because unlike Hilary supporters, I don't dismiss reality for the sake of justice. There is a chance we still might be saying "President Clinton" again.... ugh the words just make me want to vomit.

Now, if it's so improbable, why do I bring it up? Because videos are flooding the internet in hopes that we will see this change. Protesters are damned determined to make it happen.

What would happen if it were overturned? You want to talk about a civil war. Boy, I would build my Fallout Shelter and hide. That well-armed militia might actually step in. Interesting thought.

 

[sr71plt]

This is something I also saw on my professional news source, Yahoo!News.

Say what you will about the Electoral College, but BOTH parties have used it in their favor.

Not aware of the Democrats having been favored by it. The last previous example of a minority popular vote president also worked against the Democrats (Gore-Bush). Can you cite when the Democrats have benefited?

 

[Chris_Michael]

Not aware of the Democrats having been favored by it. The last previous example of a minority popular vote president also worked against the Democrats (Gore-Bush). Can you cite when the Democrats have benefited?

I was referring specifically to this election. I apologize for the confusion. This is the fifth time it's happened, and it was all Republicans who benefited from the Electoral College. However, people were boasting how Hilary would win 300 easily. They picked up the sword this time.

So that's what I meant by they were fighting by the sword. Democrats had such confidence in PA, FL, MI, and WI. Hell, they were saying GA, too. I don't see these as swing states except maybe Florida since it's such a diverse state with such a large number of electoral votes.

It's quite obvious that I'm no political analyst, and I'll wait while the sighs of relief settle before I continue.

But you're right. Never in history has the Democratic party benefited from the Electoral College. I'll make that clear. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

lets just face it, those that voted for hillary are retarded

 

[Nezhul]

It could. If the difference was 1-2 votes.
But the difference is what? 62?
For an elector to vote against the vote of his state is more or less a political suicide. If they were sure they could swing the scales, then maybe. But let's face it, I don't see 60+ people just going against that system to try and bring Hillary the victory. It is unlikely even if it was without consequence. But right now? It's pretty much pointless to vote differently from your state. There's just no way they would achieve that.

And even if 60 people were to group up and throw their votes to Hillary - I can guarantee that in the face of such situation - some of Hillary's electors would throw their votes for Trump just as a protest, just to compensate. It would take Hillary MORE than 62 electors to go rogue against the system.

Anyway, that's just fantasy. Never going to happen.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

It could. If the difference was 1-2 votes.
But the difference is what? 62?
For an elector to vote against the vote of his state is more or less a political suicide. If they were sure they could swing the scales, then maybe. But let's face it, I don't see 60+ people just going against that system to try and bring Hillary the victory. It is unlikely even if it was without consequence. But right now? It's pretty much pointless to vote differently from your state. There's just no way they would achieve that.

And even if 60 people were to group up and throw their votes to Hillary - I can guarantee that in the face of such situation - some of Hillary's electors would throw their votes for Trump just as a protest, just to compensate. It would take Hillary MORE than 62 electors to go rogue against the system.

Anyway, that's just fantasy. Never going to happen.

clearly the people that want it are spoiled babies that do not live in the real world. just wait till these people find their first job, omb! talk about being bitch slapped with reality!!!!

 

[VeraBad]

Just sign the petition. Do it.

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-...make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

 

[Nezhul]

this petition is in fact asking to stick your democracy up Clinton's ass, and say a big "Fuck you" to it.

Are you prepared to go from Democracy to Totalitarism? Well, this petition asks you to do just that.
People who sign it are hypocrites who can't admit defeat. You had election. You lost. You are now saying "Fuck the results of this election, let's make Hillary president either way!"

Why bother then? Pronounce her the Empress of USA and make it so that when she retires the next president would be her son/daughter. Because with such petitions you may just not bother with the whole "election" farce either way, you can as well go straight to Monarchy.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I was referring specifically to this election. I apologize for the confusion. This is the fifth time it's happened, and it was all Republicans who benefited from the Electoral College. However, people were boasting how Hilary would win 300 easily. They picked up the sword this time.

So that's what I meant by they were fighting by the sword. Democrats had such confidence in PA, FL, MI, and WI. Hell, they were saying GA, too. I don't see these as swing states except maybe Florida since it's such a diverse state with such a large number of electoral votes.

It's quite obvious that I'm no political analyst, and I'll wait while the sighs of relief settle before I continue.

But you're right. Never in history has the Democratic party benefited from the Electoral College. I'll make that clear. Sorry for the confusion.

That's not strictly true. The first time was before the Republican Party was formed. But you're right about the other times.

There have been quite a few times when the winner did not receive a majority but did get a plurality of the votes cast.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-...make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

hey, fuck off welfare asshole

 

[sr71plt]

Enough of the electors could, in fact, change their voting and change the outcome of a close election (probably closer than this one) and it would be legal and binding. I think one Clinton elector in Oregon and Washington has already said he won't vote for Clinton. But beyond that, I think this is a done deal this time around. The time to change the electoral college system is when there's no presidential campaign or result going on.

 

[patient1]

The electors are chosen for partisanship and fidelity. They also have community ties. It will be no secret if one defies the will of the state electorate. That's bad for a person's political future, bad for their business, bad for their friends and family. That's why it so seldom happens, and not enough to change outcomes.

 

[JackLuis]

Hopefully Trump will be convicted of fraud. Then the College can change their mind.

Otherwise, it's Trumpisim for four years!

 

[Hypoxia]

Hopefully Trump will be convicted of fraud. Then the College can change their mind.

Otherwise, it's Trumpisim for four years!

Alas, Tromp won't be convicted of anything before 19 Dec 2016. If convicted of criminal offenses later, he's immune till he leaves office, either naturally or by impeachment, conviction, and removal. No, we need pod people to replace the electors. Cue the body-snatchers.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hopefully Trump will be convicted of fraud. Then the College can change their mind.

Otherwise, it's Trumpisim for four years!

Why would he be convicted of fraud? What fraudulent act would that be? It is not illegal to lie while running for office.

 

[Hypoxia]

Why would he be convicted of fraud? What fraudulent act would that be? It is not illegal to lie while running for office.

The fraud is ongoing. Google it or merely c.f. Trump University. He could also face bribery charges re: the Florida AG who is now on his transition team. He's currently facing 75 lawsuits, many of which are jokes even crazier than himself, but many of which are also serious and potentially disastrous. No previous prez-elect has neared office trailing this sort of shit. Stay tuned for the impending impeachment. Or not.

 

[1sickbastard]

The electors are chosen for partisanship and fidelity. They also have community ties. It will be no secret if one defies the will of the state electorate. That's bad for a person's political future, bad for their business, bad for their friends and family. That's why it so seldom happens, and not enough to change outcomes.

Not really true.

In most states, being an "unfaithful" elector carries nothing more than a civil penalty (a fine, basically) and in no state does it carry anything more than a misdemeanor (which again, though jail time could be assessed, usually means little more than a fine or suspended sentence).

The Electoral College was the Founding Fathers' position of last resort to isolate the POTUS from the "great beast" of the common voter. It was intended as an independent deliberative body which, though taking the popular vote into account, would choose the best candidate irregardless of the popular vote.

Note; the founding fathers had little to no regard for the common citizen, whom they regarded as opportunistic, ill informed, and prone to being persuaded by populists and partisan passions.

 

[1sickbastard]

The fraud is ongoing. Google it or merely c.f. Trump University. He could also face bribery charges re: the Florida AG who is now on his transition team. He's currently facing 75 lawsuits, many of which are jokes even crazier than himself, but many of which are also serious and potentially disastrous. No previous prez-elect has neared office trailing this sort of shit. Stay tuned for the impending impeachment. Or not.

If one is a liberal/progressive, one should hope like hell Trump isn't impeached.

Why?

Do a little research into Mikey (Pense)
link: http://www.ontheissues.org/Mike_Pence.htm

 

[Boxlicker101]

The fraud is ongoing. Google it or merely c.f. Trump University. He could also face bribery charges re: the Florida AG who is now on his transition team. He's currently facing 75 lawsuits, many of which are jokes even crazier than himself, but many of which are also serious and potentially disastrous. No previous prez-elect has neared office trailing this sort of shit. Stay tuned for the impending impeachment. Or not.

These are all civil cases, and he is the plaintiff in some of them. Some of them are no more than nuisance suits. There is nothing that would reach the level of "High crimes and misdemeanors."

 

[Real_American21]

Hopefully Trump will be convicted of fraud. Then the College can change their mind.

Otherwise, it's Trumpisim for four years!

You're an idiot!

Trump has a few minor civil cases, Clinton has felonies, like child rape, rape, murder, human sacrifice, dereliction of duty, treason, etc.

You are a scumbag!

 

[Hypoxia]

There is nothing that would reach the level of "High crimes and misdemeanors."

"High crimes and misdemeanors" are whatever the House says they are. In Wee Willie's case, lying about a blowjob was enough, whereas war crimes and crimes against humanity don't suffice. A GOP Congress hot for Pence could impeach (indict), try, convict, and remove Pres Tromp over unpaid parking tickets if they so desired. There's no legal standard. It's a political game.

This message is hidden because Real_American21 is on your ignore list.

Whatever. RA's 9 through 20 are on Iggy too. Iggy is our friend.

 

[Boxlicker101]

"High crimes and misdemeanors" are whatever the House says they are. In Wee Willie's case, lying about a blowjob was enough, whereas war crimes and crimes against humanity don't suffice. A GOP Congress hot for Pence could impeach (indict), try, convict, and remove Pres Tromp over unpaid parking tickets if they so desired. There's no legal standard. It's a political game.

Whatever. RA's 9 through 20 are on Iggy too. Iggy is our friend.

Lying about a blowjob would not have been enough, but committing perjury, a felony, was.

Theoretically, Trump could be impeached and convicted, but I consider this to be extremely unlikely.

 

[Hypoxia]

Lying about a blowjob would not have been enough, but committing perjury, a felony, was.

And that question about Wee Willie's personal life should not have been asked, but it was. Again, for the billion taxpayer bucks GOPs spent investigating the Clintons over 2.5 decades, the best / worst that could be found was the blowjob. Fucking pathetic.

Theoretically, Trump could be impeached and convicted, but I consider this to be extremely unlikely.

Everything is unlikely until it happens. If Tromp plays nice with the party whose principles and players he's shit on recently, groovy. If the GOP leadership decides they'd do better with Pence, Tromp can surely face impeachment. As with Wee Willy, some charge can be manufactured. It's politics.

 

[domroger]

Tromp can surely face impeachment. As with Wee Willy, some charge can be manufactured. It's politics.

If the suit against Trump U succeeds there will be no need to manufacture a case .