Deal Killers

[sr71plt]

A deal killer for me would be the cat's pajamas for another reader. So I don't spend any time telling others what to write on any sort of premise that they should be writing for my own interests only. I can't see much of any reason for a thread like this other than asserting that writers should just be writing for the poster.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

A deal killer for me would be the cat's pajamas for another reader. So I don't spend any time telling others what to write on any sort of premise that they should be writing for my own interests only. I can't see much of any reason for a thread like this other than asserting that writers should just be writing for the poster.

We're not telling others how to write. Just saying what we find annoying and causes us to stop reading. While it's true that everyone's preference is different, I think it's pretty useful to look at what some common annoyances are among readers.

 

[sr71plt]

Why is it you presume a writer cares what a single other person declares is their preference if it isn't to influence the write to write that way? I've yet to fathom why anyone would give their preferences on a thread like this if they weren't trying to push their preferences.

I prefer that writers write with great variety and rely on themselves rather than committees and let the wide variety of reader interest find them--without limitations suggested by/pushed anyone else.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Are you thus trying to dictate how we should behave on a forum, and presuming we give a F about your preferences?

You're expressing preferences and dislikes, just as anyone else is, which makes you a hypocrite

Why is it you presume a writer cares what a single other person declares is their preference if it isn't to influence the write to write that way? I've yet to fathom why anyone would give their preferences on a thread like this if they weren't trying to push their preferences.

I prefer that writers write with great variety and rely on themselves rather than committees and let the wide variety of reader interest find them--without limitations suggested by/pushed anyone else.

 

[sr71plt]

Are you thus trying to dictate how we should behave on a forum, and presuming we give a F about your preferences?

You're expressing preferences and dislikes, just as anyone else is, which makes you a hypocrite

No. We have two pages of people giving their opinion on this. I gave my opinion on this. Get stuffed if you don't like having others express their opinion on this.

I notice that you didn't answer my question on what the motivations to post one's personal preferences are if it's not to influence writers to write that way.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Lol.
It's not a big mystery.

It's how people get to know each other. Expressing a personality.

Maybe you never went through that process of socialization, but it's never too late.



QUOTE=sr71plt;80733852]No. We have two pages of people giving their opinion on this. I gave my opinion on this. Get stuffed if you don't like having others express their opinion on this.

I notice that you didn't answer my question on what the motivations to post one's personal preferences are if it's not to influence writers to write that way.[/QUOTE]

 

[NicoleZ]

Why is it you presume a writer cares what a single other person declares is their preference if it isn't to influence the write to write that way? I've yet to fathom why anyone would give their preferences on a thread like this if they weren't trying to push their preferences.

Err...

Excuse me but you never read the OP, did you:

What story starts kill your reading interest like right now?

Common courtesy dictates that if someone asks you a question, you reply intelligently and, if necessary, explain your position or stance on the matter in question.

Are you thus trying to dictate how we should behave on a forum, and presuming we give a F about your preferences?

You're expressing preferences and dislikes, just as anyone else is, which makes you a hypocrite

I have to agree with this, fully.

 

[SecondCircle]

It would certainly be interesting to see some stories who get it right. So far I haven't seen any though. Like I said, you often find it in RPG games, like "you walk through the forest and find an old sword" or something like that. Not many RPGs that do that nowadays though, but the Etrian Odyssey series is one that comes to mind immediately. But then you've already created a character and are in the mindset of a roleplay, so it's much less distracting.

One such way is actually to do such as you've mentioned, role playing (though not just in the sense of fantasy/sci-fi). Long time ago I tinkered with the idea of actually setting forth a unique template character, (much like being a mage in D/D except replace mage with "Submissive Bottom" or "Starving Vampire" or anything really) then allowing the reader to sort of step into those shoes and ride the rails. In this case, the reader would understand that it isn't necessarily "you", but that "you" are in another body. You "are" Blackbeard. You're inside his head, thinking like he does, viewing the world through his eyes, you're watching yourself commit all the crimes on high seas, not just hearing about it.

Of course the issue with that way is that you could probably just write a good first person story from any of those character's perspectives and achieve similar results.

Another style is one I've attempted a couple times here at Lit. It involves being incredibly general or vague. See, usually what throws people off with Second person is that the story is "about" the reader. The reader becomes the main character. And when the author is telling the reader "you walk into the old abandoned house", some readers think, "um, no I wouldn't." Or even a sex story says "you love the feel of the syrup being poured on your breasts" most readers might say "uh, no. No I don't."

It's difficult to appeal to a broad range of individuals with one story written about THE reader. And you won't win them all over. But I could see a Second PoV story working in some cases. If you put a story into Fetish and write in 2nd PoV about a particular fetish, then those readers that love that fetish could easily immerse themselves into that pov. Same with many other topics and categories.

One story I used just a simple topic, a simple scene, one easily relatable by many people. A blowjob. Now, granted, the "you" is the one with a dick so it's told from a male perspective. But still, many people have received a blowjob or oral sex, and the story doesn't necessarily go in depth with any detail that breaks the immersion with those choicy "I wouldn't do that" scenarios. It just describes a short little scene of "you" getting woken up by a morning blowjob. Most of it centers on thoughts, emotions, lusty eyes, bedsheets clenched in fists, etc. etc. Which most any "you" can jive with.

But what I've found is you have to be careful od the language you use. Can't be too direct or too specific. The minute you say "You brush your blond hair and put on your favorite Patriots jersey", right then and there it jars the readers that don't have long enough hair to brush, those that don't have the same color hair, and those that don't root for Brady. It breaks that bond of immersion, because the "YOU" is your reader, and you can only tell them so much before they say "wow, yeah right, this is nothing like me."

It's often too bothersome to attempt.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

Why is it you presume a writer cares what a single other person declares is their preference if it isn't to influence the write to write that way? I've yet to fathom why anyone would give their preferences on a thread like this if they weren't trying to push their preferences.

I prefer that writers write with great variety and rely on themselves rather than committees and let the wide variety of reader interest find them--without limitations suggested by/pushed anyone else.

Let me just speak for myself here: I would find it helpful to know about common things readers find annoying. If something shows up very often, then it might be a good idea to see if I do that and if so if I want to change that in order to appeal to a broader audience. Things like info-dumping are generally just bad practices in writing, so if it annoys people it's all the more reason to avoid it.

I am not pushing my opinion onto other writers. It's my opinion, and people are free to do with that whatever they want. If you don't see the point in these opinions then you shouldn't read this thread. That's fine. But maybe there are some new writers who might find this information useful. Maybe use it as a way to identify and prevent common pitfalls (like the aforementioned info-dump).

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

One such way is actually to do such as you've mentioned, role playing (though not just in the sense of fantasy/sci-fi). Long time ago I tinkered with the idea of actually setting forth a unique template character, (much like being a mage in D/D except replace mage with "Submissive Bottom" or "Starving Vampire" or anything really) then allowing the reader to sort of step into those shoes and ride the rails. In this case, the reader would understand that it isn't necessarily "you", but that "you" are in another body. You "are" Blackbeard. You're inside his head, thinking like he does, viewing the world through his eyes, you're watching yourself commit all the crimes on high seas, not just hearing about it.

Of course the issue with that way is that you could probably just write a good first person story from any of those character's perspectives and achieve similar results.

Another style is one I've attempted a couple times here at Lit. It involves being incredibly general or vague. See, usually what throws people off with Second person is that the story is "about" the reader. The reader becomes the main character. And when the author is telling the reader "you walk into the old abandoned house", some readers think, "um, no I wouldn't." Or even a sex story says "you love the feel of the syrup being poured on your breasts" most readers might say "uh, no. No I don't."

It's difficult to appeal to a broad range of individuals with one story written about THE reader. And you won't win them all over. But I could see a Second PoV story working in some cases. If you put a story into Fetish and write in 2nd PoV about a particular fetish, then those readers that love that fetish could easily immerse themselves into that pov. Same with many other topics and categories.

One story I used just a simple topic, a simple scene, one easily relatable by many people. A blowjob. Now, granted, the "you" is the one with a dick so it's told from a male perspective. But still, many people have received a blowjob or oral sex, and the story doesn't necessarily go in depth with any detail that breaks the immersion with those choicy "I wouldn't do that" scenarios. It just describes a short little scene of "you" getting woken up by a morning blowjob. Most of it centers on thoughts, emotions, lusty eyes, bedsheets clenched in fists, etc. etc. Which most any "you" can jive with.

But what I've found is you have to be careful od the language you use. Can't be too direct or too specific. The minute you say "You brush your blond hair and put on your favorite Patriots jersey", right then and there it jars the readers that don't have long enough hair to brush, those that don't have the same color hair, and those that don't root for Brady. It breaks that bond of immersion, because the "YOU" is your reader, and you can only tell them so much before they say "wow, yeah right, this is nothing like me."

It's often too bothersome to attempt.

It's an interesting idea to use the second POV when writing for a particular fetish, since you know what those people like (generally speaking of course). Still, with all the trouble it takes and the meager benefits over a First or Third POV I don't think it would be worth it to try.

 

[SecondCircle]

It's an interesting idea to use the second POV when writing for a particular fetish, since you know what those people like (generally speaking of course). Still, with all the trouble it takes and the meager benefits over a First or Third POV I don't think it would be worth it to try.

There's been a few instances where it can work to great effect. At times it can even get more personal than 1st person PoV. But in general it's pretty odd to most readers. I think it works so well with choose your own adventure stuff because it gives back the element of "choice of actions" that Second person seems to take away.

 

[sr71plt]

Err...

Excuse me but you never read the OP, did you:

I read the OP, yes, but the OP is the resident troll, so what's your point? We get this "write for me" thread a lot here. Folks always get bitchy when I point out that "write for me particularly" is what their response is.

 

[Haulover]

Sex scenes that go on and on and on, for pages.

 

[sr71plt]

I would find it helpful to know about common things readers find annoying.

This is exactly my point. This is a huge site with a huge range of interests. There are no "common things readers find annoying." There are only a small set of people who respond to that question at all on a forum that is a minuscule segment of this Web site. You are asking for and getting a false picture of the impossible--"common things readers find annoying"--and you are falling into an amateur writer's trap of trying to please a set of folks that doesn't exist rather than writing to your passion and letting the interested audience find you.

Sorry if that message doesn't get through to you at whatever stage of writer/reader you are.

 

[Tw0Cr0ws]

Second POV

As soon as I see the story is written in second POV I'm not reading it.

If many readers dislike a thing wouldn't a writer that wants a lot of readers to read his/her work avoid doing it?

You can't please everyone, but pissing them all off is a piece of cake.

 

[NicoleZ]

but the OP is the resident troll

That is only your opinion (and possibly that of a few others as well), it is not an established fact or law of nature. Actually it says more about you than about the gentleman in question and what it does says is not wholly flattering to you...

We get this "write for me" thread a lot here. Folks always get bitchy when I point out that "write for me particularly" is what their response is.

Yes, that is very annoying when it happens even it is far from as common as you make out. But if you think that everyone always and without exception is saying that with every comment they make, why are you still here? On the other hand, if you are pissed because you think people don't listen to you as reverently as they should, have you ever asked yourself why that might be?

I can't help but notice that you got antsy when your comment to that effect higher up in the thread was ignored and not picked up by others. Why not start your own thread then instead of trying to hijack this one?

 

[rjordan]

A deal killer for me would be the cat's pajamas for another reader. So I don't spend any time telling others what to write on any sort of premise that they should be writing for my own interests only. I can't see much of any reason for a thread like this other than asserting that writers should just be writing for the poster.

Another reason for a thread like this is for some to assert that writers shouldn't do that. All opinions welcomed.

rj

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Laurel publicly tagged PILOT and LOVECRAFT trolls. I escaped her wrath.

 

[lovecraft68]

Let me just speak for myself here: I would find it helpful to know about common things readers find annoying. If something shows up very often, then it might be a good idea to see if I do that and if so if I want to change that in order to appeal to a broader audience. Things like info-dumping are generally just bad practices in writing, so if it annoys people it's all the more reason to avoid it.

I am not pushing my opinion onto other writers. It's my opinion, and people are free to do with that whatever they want. If you don't see the point in these opinions then you shouldn't read this thread. That's fine. But maybe there are some new writers who might find this information useful. Maybe use it as a way to identify and prevent common pitfalls (like the aforementioned info-dump).

You're wasting breath and time. We've had similar threads and Pilot always comes raging in here accusing everyone of 'telling authors how to write."

In reality no one in any of these threads is telling anyone anything other than what their personal turn offs are as readers.

But Pilot sees it that way, then proves himself a hypocrite by then telling people what types of threads they should and should not respond to and telling them what they're saying. In other words he is telling posters how to post in the same breath he tells people they should not tell authors how to write.

The passive aggressive routine is fairly easy to follow. Now after this post we will see the martyr, everyone is attacking him post.

We've been here before.

 

[lovecraft68]

Laurel publicly tagged PILOT and LOVECRAFT trolls. I escaped her wrath.

Yes, we were branded trolls for silly things like pointing out the sites sleazy way of announcing monthly winners two years late(at the time) then never contacting the authors to tell them they won, and keeping the money.

I think there were other trollish things as well like pointing out mal functioning features, top lists, and scouries continued presence on the after breaking pretty much every rule we have here as well at one point repeatedly posting malware infested links all over the boards.

I'll take being called a troll by this site any day.

The most recent was when TX Rad and I were told "There is no group" in a thread where one of them posted a long story about the group and three others had it in their Signature.

Again...if I weren't a troll by site standards I'd be upset with myself.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Yes, we were branded trolls for silly things like pointing out the sites sleazy way of announcing monthly winners two years late(at the time) then never contacting the authors to tell them they won, and keeping the money.

I think there were other trollish things as well like pointing out mal functioning features, top lists, and scouries continued presence on the after breaking pretty much every rule we have here as well at one point repeatedly posting malware infested links all over the boards.

I'll take being called a troll by this site any day.

The most recent was when TX Rad and I were told "There is no group" in a thread where one of them posted a long story about the group and three others had it in their Signature.

Again...if I weren't a troll by site standards I'd be upset with myself.

My point is dear PILOT ia N OFFICIlALT ROLL

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Well Hands said he doesn't like colors and descriptions of clothes esp suits. It so happens I love that and my latest story has, yes, a SUIT described

Did I curl up into a fetal position and cry? Did I for one second think he was telling me how to write? Why would I,?

I just thought "Interesting," because it is.

Only an insecure, paranoid person would take these friendly comments as some sort of attack.

 

[ishtat]

'Perfect' characters, perfect in any way - they are never believable.

Imagine a story world where JBJ is a sweet old gentleman, dispensing sage advice and goodwill, Pilot is always, always right and will kindly remind one of the fact, and LC is a latter day Galahad rescuing endangered damsels (especially when they don't want to be rescued).

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Err...

Excuse me but you never read the OP, did you:



Common courtesy dictates that if someone asks you a question, you reply intelligently and, if necessary, explain your position or stance on the matter in question.



I have to agree with this, fully.

I have no clue what common courtesy is, or what INTELLIGENTLY means. USEFUL is my meat. I strive to be useful. And I toss dead cats into sanctuaries, because little happens without a crisis.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

That is only your opinion (and possibly that of a few others as well), it is not an established fact or law of nature.

While I'm the first to admit that pilot's taken his grumpy pills recently and appears to be upping the dosage, that doesn't mean he's wrong. Noir IS AH's only successful agent provocateur. Sometime's he's right and even insightful, but he does love to yank chains and his threads get the traffic to prove he knows what to yank.

I'll take either over the weirdly self-delusional Scouries. Or a small handful of other people languishing on my ignore list. Noir and pilot have their insights and can be entertaining; that's more than some people achieve here.