Constructive Criticism?

[Kantarii]

I have received a few writing "suggestions" / pointers from fellow authors here in the AH. I like to term it as constructive criticism as opposed to the comments I receive from the average reader. I find that when the critique comes from a fellow writer, I'm more inclined to adhere to the suggestions from the critique as opposed to it coming from another outside source.

So, the question is," When a fellow author/write gives you a critique of you story, are you more or less inclined to consider their pointers? Or, do you treat their critique like another reader's opinion of your story?Kant

 

[8letters]

I have received a few writing "suggestions" / pointers from fellow authors here in the AH. I like to term it as constructive criticism as opposed to the comments I receive from the average reader. I find that when the critique comes from a fellow writer, I'm more inclined to adhere to the suggestions from the critique as opposed to it coming from another outside source.

So, the question is," When a fellow author/write gives you a critique of you story, are you more or less inclined to consider their pointers? Or, do you treat their critique like another reader's opinion of your story?Kant

I've I were to give you constructive criticism, it would all boil down to advice on how to write more like me. And because I'm an author, you can see what I write like. Now, hopefully there are parts of my style that appeal to you and you could take my constructive criticism as a way of learning to adopt those elements. But there are probably parts of my style that don't appeal to you and you should ignore my constructive criticism that steers you in that direction.

 

[Anomic]

I'm certainly more likely to take the opinion of another, more experienced, author into account over a reader. But I would also factor in the kinds of stories that they write and how closely they align with my own style of storytelling.

All I mean by that is that there are a lot of different types of authors here. An author who writes nothing but direct, to the point, stroke stories is someone who I would gladly take advice on the writing of my sex scenes. But that same author's criticisms may not carry as much weight with me on the story side of things as an author who spends a lot of time on the story in their own writing.

That being said, I read every comment and take every criticism under consideration from authors or readers because I do want to improve my skills as I go.

I find that I'm always more excited to hear feedback from an author, especially if they are one that I am a fan of. It gives one (myself, at least) a feeling of validity for their efforts.

 

[NotWise]

So, the question is," When a fellow author/write gives you a critique of you story, are you more or less inclined to consider their pointers? Or, do you treat their critique like another reader's opinion of your story?Kant

I'll consider any input I can get and take what I believe is useful to me.

That said, input from readers and input from fellow writers tends to be completely different. The rare reader comments I get are generally about the story and the writers' comments (which I have been known to solicit) are usually about mechanics. It's hard to compare the two.

Input from writers is easier to understand. Input from readers is often vague, or so individual as to be useless. I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to do with a reader comment like "This story is even more of a cluster fuck than part 1." I took that as being generally negative, though in erotica it seems like maybe a "cluster fuck" should be a good thing.

It did leave me speculating about what was "cluster fucky" about the story. In context I eventually decided that he probably thought too much of the story content was tangential to the sex.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

My attitude is as follows.

50 years ago I was a mechanic in the military. I got lotsa pointers from more experienced mechanics. I improved quickly.

45 years ago I was a sheet metal apprentice. I got lotsa pointers from the old men.

At LIT 99% of the pointers are YOU SUCK.

I don't solicit pointers or edit help. LADY VER is especially unwelcome. She talks a good game with zero reliability.

 

[TxRad]

Contrary to the old fart above me, I've gotten and given good help to new and old writers. Even him. There are several good writers here that i ask to look at a piece to see if there are things I'm missing. They do the same with me.

Most of the time you get out what you put in.

 

[Jay321]

I try to look at anything more specific than "you suck" or "I jerked off 18 times to your story" as constructive. If a reader says that he found a certain passage confusing, I will read over it and see if I can make improvements.

It boils down to the advice I get. TX could (not saying you would) give me some advice I don't like. For example he could tell me that to pull writers in, I need to flourish the descriptions about them. I dropped that habit after rereading an older story of mine. I would not take it, although I would thank him for it.

 

[Kantarii]

Contrary to the old fart above me, I've gotten and given good help to new and old writers. Even him. There are several good writers here that i ask to look at a piece to see if there are things I'm missing. They do the same with me.

Most of the time you get out what you put in.

Unlike the ass above you (that put me on iggy), I got no complaints with you or LC. Both of y'all have been most helpful with me since I became a member. Above and beyond the call of duty. Kant

 

[oggbashan]

What some people offer as 'constructive criticism' is actually destructive criticism - not pointing out what could be better but picking arguments with the author about the parts of the story the critic didn't like.

It is very difficult to write real constructive criticism without offending the author. Some people can but they are rare.

 

[CyranoJ]

So, the question is," When a fellow author/write gives you a critique of you story, are you more or less inclined to consider their pointers? Or, do you treat their critique like another reader's opinion of your story?Kant

Doesn't concern me whether someone's a writer or not. I'm always happy when someone gives me constructive criticism on a story; whether or not I can make use of it -- often it just amounts to differences in taste or what qualifies as sexy -- I take it as a compliment for someone to have read the story closely enough to comment in an informed way and to feel some type of way about it.

 

[Jay321]

It is very difficult to write real constructive criticism without offending the author. Some people can but they are rare.

Some authors cannot take the constructive criticism because the know that their work is flawless. This makes your equation ever harder to balance.

 

[CyranoJ]

Rather like porn, constructive criticism is something that's not easy to define but that you know when you see it. There are a lot of people who try to pretend that they're being "constructive" by shaming the author's kinks or the story's category or by engaging in abusive nit-picking or just outright abuse. They don't qualify as "constructive." On the other hand, a reader who was disappointed with the way a story went or were hoping for a more literary denouement to a story or were thrown by some stylistic element -- it might be a simple matter of taste, it might not, I sometimes take the critique to heart and sometimes don't, but I'm never offended by that.

 

[oggbashan]

Some authors cannot take the constructive criticism because the know that their work is flawless. This makes your equation ever harder to balance.

And some know their work, or their latest story, is the best they are capable of now. While constructive criticism might help, the author has to want to improve and has to have the ability to benefit from advice.

Good advice is easy to give and very hard to accept.

 

[Kantarii]

And some know their work, or their latest story, is the best they are capable of now. While constructive criticism might help, the author has to want to improve and has to have the ability to benefit from advice.

Good advice is easy to give and very hard to accept.

Interesting. I was always taught a fool will never listen to sound advice and insanity was defined as doing something over and over expecting a different result when the first attempt failedKant

 

[ChloeTzang]

........

 

[OliviaM]

I have received a few writing "suggestions" / pointers from fellow authors here in the AH. I like to term it as constructive criticism as opposed to the comments I receive from the average reader. I find that when the critique comes from a fellow writer, I'm more inclined to adhere to the suggestions from the critique as opposed to it coming from another outside source.

So, the question is," When a fellow author/write gives you a critique of you story, are you more or less inclined to consider their pointers? Or, do you treat their critique like another reader's opinion of your story?Kant

This is a good question. I know when I want to take advice and when I don't but I can't describe how I choose which advice to follow. Maybe I happen to know the person's experience, or the way they write somehow tells me I'm safe following their advice. I've learned things from both novice writers and experienced ones. The only time I discount the advice I'm given is when it seems more like an opinion than a rule, but I couldn't give you an example of how I do that.

 

[Hypoxia]

I have received very constructive comments from beta-readers. I have a very few useful suggestions from readers. Mostly I get either ambiguous or slanted praise, or death threats.

 

[Haulover]

That's me too.

I worked with a professional editor for 3 years. It can be HARD to hear critiques, and harder to follow their advice. But she was always right...

 

[Areala-chan]

Rather like porn, constructive criticism is something that's not easy to define but that you know when you see it. There are a lot of people who try to pretend that they're being "constructive" by shaming the author's kinks or the story's category or by engaging in abusive nit-picking or just outright abuse. They don't qualify as "constructive." On the other hand, a reader who was disappointed with the way a story went or were hoping for a more literary denouement to a story or were thrown by some stylistic element -- it might be a simple matter of taste, it might not, I sometimes take the critique to heart and sometimes don't, but I'm never offended by that.

In order for criticism to be constructive, it must offer a way for the writer to build his or her skills. To simply point out a mistake or say I didn't care for the story is criticism, but it isn't constructive. Even issues of spelling or grammar have constructive vs. nonconstructive methods of handling ("The word 'embarass' is misspelled on page 3!" vs. "On page 3, you misspelled 'embarrass' as 'embarass'.").

I think the most important thing though is to be honest. There have been times when I've read something and, for whatever reason, it just didn't work for me. If I can't put my finger on it, but someone has solicited my honest opinion, I need to tell them I felt it didn't work, but also point out that I don't know why exactly it didn't. But I wouldn't go that far to comment on or leave feedback for a story that just didn't work for me unless I knew why and could offer a suggestion. I'd certainly never offer critique, constructive or otherwise, on a story that was not written with me as the intended audience. Someone here probably has written the definitive all-male gay orgy gang bang story, but being a lesbian, critiquing such a piece is so far outside my realm of experience I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to go about doing it.

Basically, if someone takes the time to explain not only what was wrong but why they felt it was wrong or how you could correct it, I'd define that as constructive. If all they do is say it sucks (or even that it's phenomenal), there's nothing to work with in that critique so it's of no value.

 

[legerdemer]

....I find that when the critique comes from a fellow writer, I'm more inclined to adhere to the suggestions from the critique as opposed to it coming from another outside source.

So, the question is," When a fellow author/write gives you a critique of you story, are you more or less inclined to consider their pointers? Or, do you treat their critique like another reader's opinion of your story?Kant

I have few stories and even fewer comments on each, so when I do receive comments (or faves even) I always look whether they came from someone who has written something. It's been about 50%, and about 50-60% of those come from authors who post in the AH.

If the comment is literate and tells me either something they liked or didn't like about the story, I pay attention. I may disagree, but I think hard about it, especially if I disagree with it. I often check their own style - as someone else said earlier (8letters, I think), I don't want to write/sound like someone else, and I try not to give such comments when I edit others' work (apostrophe use may be incorrect ).

I appreciate even comments that Ogg described as "essentially destructive," because they point to something that may not have worked. Often that's enough, and I consider that useful.

Truly destructive are comments that disparage my style simply out of differences in personal taste - those I ignore, though they are toxic. But such comments have been truly rare.

Occasionally people will leave comments that are damning with faint praise, or near-insults - I don't know if they meant to do it, if they left their comment in a rush, or if I'm being over sensitive. But hey, they left a comment, and that counts so much more than breezing past without even a wave.

 

[8letters]

In order for criticism to be constructive, it must offer a way for the writer to build his or her skills. To simply point out a mistake or say I didn't care for the story is criticism, but it isn't constructive. Even issues of spelling or grammar have constructive vs. nonconstructive methods of handling ("The word 'embarass' is misspelled on page 3!" vs. "On page 3, you misspelled 'embarrass' as 'embarass'.").

This made me think of an anonymous PM I got yesterday:

The word "drug" refers to a chemical combination prescribed by doctors to their patients, never is it the past tense of the verb "to drag". The word you are looking for is dragged - please stop butchering the English language.

Researching "dragged" vs "drug", "dragged" is more correct but "drug" has become acceptable in the US for informal use. But as the speaker in the story was Irish, the reader was absolutely correct.

But still, "stop butchering the English language"? I made one wrong word choice in a nine LitE page story and that's butchering the English language? That's the only thing you thought was important about a nine page story?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I grew up in age with standards. In high school my drafting program dropped a letter grade for any 2 errors...any errors. The drawing better be correct.

In military boot camp the drill instructor was a mother fucker for correct. He once dumped my foot locker on the floor because a handkerchief fold faced the wrong way, and then I stood at attention before the platoon so he could catalogue what a pig I was.

I lost an election by one vote.

We now live in the age of affirmative action do-overs.

 

[Kantarii]

This made me think of an anonymous PM I got yesterday:

Researching "dragged" vs "drug", "dragged" is more correct but "drug" has become acceptable in the US for informal use. But as the speaker in the story was Irish, the reader was absolutely correct.

But still, "stop butchering the English language"? I made one wrong word choice in a nine LitE page story and that's butchering the English language? That's the only thing that you that was important about a nine page story?

Sounds to me someone had drugs on the brain... HahaKant

 

[CyranoJ]

But still, "stop butchering the English language"?

http://b2.ifrm.com/11551/52/0/e5002096/e5002096.gif Certain people are slightly... lacking in perspective.

 

[ontheroadforever]

Just my two cents...

As a new writer, I don't mind criticism, because it tells me what I need to do to get better. That being said, anonymous critics don't get as much pull as named critics, and named critics don't get the same pull as authors. But, I will listen. I may not DO what they say, but I will at least try to listen...