How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[phrodeau]

I guess I missed the Bible passage where Jesus arrives in Heaven to drop off some blood with his dad.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

He died, was beaten to a pulp, nailed to a cross, run through with a spear, beard torn out and killed, then by His own power He rose from the dead, proving that He is God. He went and presented His innocent blood to the Father and that was the sacrifice for our sins.

So...not going to bother responding to my Noah's Ark post and the damned isolated tribes post. I understand. How do you respond to posts filled with facts and reason?

You can't...you just ignore them because those pesky facts get in the way of your fairy tale beliefs.

 

[1sickbastard]

So...not going to bother responding to my Noah's Ark post and the damned isolated tribes post. I understand. How do you respond to posts filled with facts and reason?

You can't...you just ignore them because those pesky facts get in the way of your fairy tale beliefs.

Of course he can, because "faith" means loyalty to an ideology, especially in defiance of the plain facts and all reason.

The only reason it isn't called delusion is because it's covered with the veneer called religion.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

So...not going to bother responding to my Noah's Ark post and the damned isolated tribes post. I understand. How do you respond to posts filled with facts and reason?

You can't...you just ignore them because those pesky facts get in the way of your fairy tale beliefs.

Which post are you referring?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Again, ducking the question of why an all-powerful. all knowing deity who "loves us" can't just forgive an individual for being the individual said deity knew that individual would end up being.

First of all, we weren't created to be sinners. We sin because Adam chose to sin and that sin nature was passed along to every one of us. Also, individually, we do sin, so God is forgiving us as individuals when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. WE make the choice whether we receive His pardon or not. He isn't going to force it on anyone.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Which post are you referring?

Noah's ark post (which was deviously hidden on the previous page).

And here's the other post that was deftly hidden two pages back.

I hope you're not a detective by trade.

 

[phrodeau]

First of all, we weren't created to be sinners. We sin because Adam chose to sin and that sin nature was passed along to every one of us. Also, individually, we do sin, so God is forgiving us as individuals when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. WE make the choice whether we receive His pardon or not. He isn't going to force it on anyone.

Adam sinned, therefore he was created to be a sinner.

Before Eve came along, who or what did Adam fuck?

 

[neci]

Adam sinned, therefore he was created to be a sinner.

Before Eve came along, who or what did Adam fuck?

it had to have been the snake. the whole spurned lover rings perfect.

 

[1sickbastard]

First of all, we weren't created to be sinners.

Horseshit. If humans weren't created to be sinners then humans wouldn't have had the ability to sin.
As humans apparently DID have the ability to sin, it follows that either:
1) your god didn't have a fucking clue as to what it was doing, or
2) you're just flat out wrong on that assertion and god created humans knowing full well beforehand what would happen.
Either way, the responsibility falls right back onto your version of god.

We sin because Adam chose to sin and that sin nature was passed along to every one of us.

Okay, let's look at the specifics as given in Christian dogma and as stated in Genesis, chapters 2 & 3:
According to Christian dogma, before the "fall" there was no death, correct?
Also, according to the same dogma, Ywhw is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, correct?
Now, as told in Genesis, partially in chapter 2 and the rest in chapter 3, the 'sin' of Adam was disobedience to god, right?
Now, what was the specific act of disobedience?
Genesis 2, 17: " but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
That's right, Adam's "sin" was acquiring moral awareness (knowledge of good and evil) in defiance of Ywhw's command and the punishment for doing so was to die.
Which brings up the question, at least to those who aren't brainwashed sheep;
How could Adam (or Eve) possibly know that disobedience was wrong (as they had yet to acquire knowledge of good and evil) and how could they possibly understand what the penalty would be for doing so (because before the fall there was no death)?
The second question that comes to mind is;
If Ywhw is all knowing, then why would it have placed the forbidden fruit where it was accessible to the creations it knew were capable of disobedience (and mind you, didn't even have the courtesy of saying, "Btw, ignore anything a talking snake tells you."), because an all-knowing deity would have, by definition known what its creation would eventually do?
And the third question;
How was an omnipotent and omnipresent deity not right there when all this was going on and why didn't it stop its creations before they fucked up?

Or to put in a metaphor you may (though I seriously doubt it) understand:
A parent puts an open bottle of poison on the ground, in easy reach of a toddler, tells the toddler that drinking it will make the toddler something that said toddler has no frame of reference to understand, turns on a dvd about how drinking the poison is okay, then stands by and watches the toddler drink the poison, but, and this is the part you fucking brain-dead theists never want to address directly, instead of accepting responsibility for the situation, instead decides to pour gas on the toddler, set it ablaze, and then beat the toddler with a belt while screaming at the kid, "It was all your choice, so you deserve what you get, you worthless piece of shit! But I'm burning you and beating you because I love you!"

Also, individually, we do sin, so God is forgiving us as individuals when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. WE make the choice whether we receive His pardon or not. He isn't going to force it on anyone.

And once again, you've completely ducked the question:
Why can't an omnipotent being just say, hey, no biggie, my unconditional love means I can forgive you without making any demands (by definition of "unconditional") for being what I created you to be?

You can't answer the question without running back to a bullshit dogma which makes absolutely no sense, can you?

And all of this is a HUGE red herring, because you and your ilk still have to demonstrate the existence of ANY god, much less your particular version of god.

For that matter, no theist has ever been able to properly define "god" in a manner that is testable and potentially falsifiable, which means the word "god" is essentially meaningless

So, let's start with you defining "god".
If the definition cannot be tested to see if it is right or wrong, then at least have the fucking balls to admit you haven't a fucking clue as to the bullshit you're spouting.

 

[phrodeau]

So far they had steered clear of the fruit and berries they had seen, though the trees and bushed were laden with them.
"Look at it this way," Ford Prefect had said, "fruit and berries on strange planets either make you live or make you die. Therefore the point at which to start toying with them is when you're going to die if you don't. That way you stay ahead. The secret of healthy hitch-hiking is to eat junk food."
They looked at the pile that lay in their path with suspicion. It looked so good it made them almost dizzy with hunger.
"Look at it this way," said Ford, "er ..."
"Yes?" said Arthur.
"I'm trying to think of a way of looking at it which means we get to eat it," said Ford.
The leaf-dappled sun gleamed on the pulp skins of the things which looked like pears. The things which looked like raspberries and strawberries were fatter and riper than any Arthur had ever seen, even in ice cream commercials.
"Why don't we eat them and think about it afterwards?" he said.
"Maybe that's what they want us to do."
"Alright, look at it this way ..."
"Sounds good so far."
"It's there for us to eat. Either it's good or it's bad, either they want to feed us or to poison us. If it's poisonous and we don't eat it they'll just attack us some other way. If we don't eat, we lose out either way."
"I like the way you're thinking," said Ford, "Now eat one."
Hesitantly, Arthur picked up one of those things that looked like pears.
"I always thought that about the Garden of Eden story," said Ford.
"Eh?"
"Garden of Eden. Tree. Apple. That bit, remember?"
"Yes of course I do."
"Your God person puts an apple tree in the middle of a garden and says do what you like guys, oh, but don't eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting `Gotcha'. It wouldn't have made any difference if they hadn't eaten it."
"Why not?"
"Because if you're dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won't give up. They'll get you in the end."
"What are you talking about?"
"Never mind, eat the fruit."
"You know, this place almost looks like the Garden of Eden."
"Eat the fruit."
"Sounds quite like it too."
Arthur took a bite from the thing which looked like a pear.
"It's a pear," he said.
A few moments later, when they had eaten the lot, Ford Prefect turned round and called out.
"Thank you. Thank you very much," he called, "you're very kind."
They went on their way.

----Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Noah's ark post (which was deviously hidden on the previous page).

And here's the other post that was deftly hidden two pages back.

I hope you're not a detective by trade.

Answer to Question #1: YES I really believe it. It took Noah 100 years to build the Arc. You don't what kind of technology they had before the flood because it was all wiped out after the flood. Since men lived 900 years, they could accumulate a lot of knowledge in that much time to figure out how to build the Arc.

Answer to Question #2: Only those in Christ are saved according to Jesus Christ Himself. There are many MANY stories around the world of Jesus Christ revealing Himself to people who have no other way of getting the gospel. 50-70% of the muslims that convert to Christianity say that they did it because Jesus Christ revealed Himself to them in a dream or a vision. God can reach those people. I know that China has a HUGE underground Christian Church of around 300 Million people. They actually have more Christians than the US, yet the gospel is forbidden there.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Adam sinned, therefore he was created to be a sinner.

Before Eve came along, who or what did Adam @#$

Wrong. God created Adam with freewill. His only 1 rule was Do not eat of that Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. When Adam broke that rule, he had the knowledge of sin and began sinning. Before Eve, Adam didn't have sex with anyone. God waited for the right time to give Eve to Him. I think sometimes men need time alone to learn to appreciate their wives better. I am sure he appreciated her when God gave her to him.

 

[GrandpaBill]

https://newmarketbaptist.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/blues.gif

 

[GrandpaBill]

http://media.giphy.com/media/13Qtgb7ggzBEo8/giphy.gif

 

[GrandpaBill]

https://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqldie6Q001qkrdgno1_r3_500.gif

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Answer to Question #1: YES I really believe it. It took Noah 100 years to build the Arc. You don't what kind of technology they had before the flood because it was all wiped out after the flood. Since men lived 900 years, they could accumulate a lot of knowledge in that much time to figure out how to build the Arc.

I like how you glossed over all those confounding facts in that post like how come there is zero geological evidence of a global flood? Or how could only 8 people take care of a pair of every animal (including dinosaurs)? How could animals from Australia get to the Middle East when there is absolutely no evidence of a temporary land bridge (like at the Bering Strait) ever existing? Or even the part where god kills everyone else including innocent babies. And seriously, are you that delusional that you think Noah, the subsistence farmer, lived to 900 years old and somehow taught himself to build the largest wooden boat in history?!? If I remember correctly, god just told him to build the ark...there was no mention that he was going to give Noah & his family super powers and/or advanced technology...he just fucking said to build a boat. Is god sending you visions with all these extra details about that story? You should write that shit down. You must be a modern day prophet.

Answer to Question #2: Only those in Christ are saved according to Jesus Christ Himself. There are many MANY stories around the world of Jesus Christ revealing Himself to people who have no other way of getting the gospel. 50-70% of the muslims that convert to Christianity say that they did it because Jesus Christ revealed Himself to them in a dream or a vision. God can reach those people. I know that China has a HUGE underground Christian Church of around 300 Million people. They actually have more Christians than the US, yet the gospel is forbidden there.

I don't even know how to respond to that kind of crazy...So your answer for that is telepathy?

Wow...just wow.

.....

 

[1sickbastard]

This thread has only demonstrated one thing:

https://diagoras.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/original.jpg

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Much Evidence Exists for a Worldwide Flood:

http://www.icr.org/geological-strata

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Much Evidence Exists for a Worldwide Flood:

http://www.icr.org/geological-strata

Lol...you post a link to the Institute for Creation Research as your proof. Isn't that the same group that was sued for trying to put Intelligent Design in schoolbooks and losing badly in court?

That's like posting a link to Rapper B.o.B's twitter account for evidence of the world being flat.

 

[Tryharder62]

If I did, that would make Jesus a sociopathic asshole.

All those serial killers on death row that get their final confession to get their sins absolved and accept Jesus in their hearts (according to your rules) get to go upstairs.

So...that would also mean that everyone man, woman and child in every uncontacted tribe around the world is damned to an eternity in the Christian Hell because they have never heard of Jesus Christ, the bible, Christianity, etc. I don't know about you, but that's kind of a dick move damning people that are oblivious of his supposed existence and divinity.

You better hurry down to Brazil and convert this tribe (there are around 40 uncontacted tribes in Brazil alone). And preferably before you infect them with a common disease that kills them since they don't have a natural immunity due to their isolation. I guess you'll have to disavow the existense of your evolutionary advantage of immunity that you inherited through your ancestors.

I am going to get slammed for this but I heard a missionary who went to an area that hadn't heard the word. (It's a long story how they were able to communicate) He met an old man. They were able to talk about Jesus and the faith and the man said. " I knew of this. I just didn't know his name was Jesus." God can reveal himself any way he wants too. In nature or through others. I think the problem is that most people are thinking that God is trying to keep people out of heaven. A wonderful person explained it with this analogy. Jesus is on a ship. All these people are trying to board the ship. He is not there trying to push people off. He is working as hard as he can to pull people on board.
God just gives you free will in regards to accepting the boarding pass. I think everyone gets opportunity to take the journey. They just may not hear the whistle sound in the same way.

 

[1sickbastard]

I am going to get slammed for this but I heard a missionary who went to an area that hadn't heard the word. (It's a long story how they were able to communicate) He met an old man. They were able to talk about Jesus and the faith and the man said. " I knew of this. I just didn't know his name was Jesus." God can reveal himself any way he wants too. In nature or through others. I think the problem is that most people are thinking that God is trying to keep people out of heaven. A wonderful person explained it with this analogy. Jesus is on a ship. All these people are trying to board the ship. He is not there trying to push people off. He is working as hard as he can to pull people on board.
God just gives you free will in regards to accepting the boarding pass. I think everyone gets opportunity to take the journey. They just may not hear the whistle sound in the same way.

1) Anecdotes are not evidence, they're stories. Anyone can make up a story.
2) Cite your source, please.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Yet that can't find even one example of a half breed between different kinds of animals. Interesting. They don't exist. What does exist are examples of Lateral Adaptation. See, in order for one animal to evolve into another, there needs to be an increase in genetic information. The problem is that this has never been seen to happen, even one time ever. The mutations that you see are all within the species. That's why we have different types of Dogs: E.g. Wolves, Foxes, Coyotes, German Shephards, ect. But you never see a half dog and half cat for instance. They ALWAYS stay dogs. That's what you weren't told in School.

I'll just leave this here.

...and this as well.

 

[1sickbastard]

http://www.arcamax.com/newspics/146/14679/1467913.jpg

 

[Tryharder62]

1) Anecdotes are not evidence, they're stories. Anyone can make up a story.
2) Cite your source, please.

Hey, did I say I was providing evidence. NO. Cool story - I choose to believe the person who told it many years ago. Heard a missionary from India today. It is illegal to try to convert people to Christianity there. .5 percent of the population are practicing Christians. If a person is turned in they serve 3 years in prison. I am just glad that I live in America where whether you agree with me or not, I can still give my opinion. If I was a biblical scholar I could not provide some people with enough evidence to make them believe. It's because in order to be a Christian you have to also have faith. That is personal and it something that can't be proved.

 

[GrandpaBill]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cheech.gif