Centennial of The Somme

[trysail]

The first day of the Somme was the worst day in the history of the British army.

U.S. citizens are, by and large, completely oblivious to the horrific bloodletting that occurred in July, 1916 in the valley of the Somme.

There were roughly 1,000,000 casualties over the course of the five-month battle. It remains as one of the bloodiest battles in history.




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Western_front_1915-16.jpg/1173px-Western_front_1915-16.jpg



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[oggbashan]

My wife's grandfather was there on day one. He survived but lived with the consequences of his wounds for the rest of his life.

Many of his friends and neighbours died in the first week.

 

[Fierywhore]

Horrific battle, 331,000 Australian Volunteers fought there out of a population of 4.7 Million.....64.8% were wounded or killed...

 

[oggbashan]

Horrific battle, 331,000 Australian Volunteers fought there out of a population of 4.7 Million.....64.8% were wounded or killed...

One of my father's friends was the sole survivor of five Australian brothers who volunteered for WW1. Two died at Gallipoli; two died at The Somme. He survived both battles to fight the Japanese on the Kokoda Trail in WW2 even though he was supposed to be a civilian then.

Australian diggers of WW1 were a fantastic breed.

 

[trysail]

From the Wikipedia entry for The Royal Newfoundland Regiment

In France, the regiment regained battalion strength in preparation for the Battle of the Somme. The regiment, still in the 29th Division, went into the line in April 1916 at Beaumont-Hamel. Beaumont-Hamel was situated near the northern end of the 45-kilometre front being assaulted by the joint French and British force. The attack, originally scheduled for June 29, 1916, was postponed by two days to July 1, 1916, partly on account of inclement weather, and partly to allow more time for the artillery preparation. The 29th Division, with its three infantry brigades, faced defences manned by experienced troops of the 119th (Reserve) Infantry Regiment of the 26th (Wurttemberg) Reserve Division. The 119th (Reserve) Infantry Regiment had been involved in the invasion of France in August 1914 and had been manning the Beaumont-Hamel section of the line for nearly 20 months prior to the battle. The German troops had been spending a great deal of their time not only training but fortifying their position, including the construction of numerous deep dugouts and at least two tunnels.


The infantry assault by the 29th Division on 1 July 1916 was preceded ten minutes earlier by a mine explosion under the heavily fortified Hawthorn Ridge Redoubt. The explosion of the 18,000 kilograms (40,000 lb) Hawthorn Mine underneath the German lines successfully destroyed a major enemy strong point but also served to alert the German forces to the imminent attack. Following the explosion, troops of the 119th (Reserve) Infantry Regiment immediately deployed from their dugouts into the firing line, even preventing the British from taking control of the resulting crater as they had planned. When the assault finally began, the troops from the 86th and 87th Brigade of the 29th Division were quickly stopped. With the exception of the 1st Battalion of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers on the right flank, the initial assault foundered in No Man's Land at, or short of, the German barbed wire. At divisional headquarters, Major-General Beauvoir De Lisle and his staff were trying to unravel the numerous and confusing messages coming back from observation posts, contact aircraft and the two leading brigades. There were indications that some troops had broken into and gone beyond the German first line. In an effort to exploit the perceived break in the German line he ordered the 88th Brigade, which was in reserve, to send forward two battalions to support attack.

At 8:45 a.m. the Newfoundland Regiment and 1st Battalion, Essex Regiment received orders to move forward. The Newfoundland Regiment was situated at St. John's Road, a support trench 250 yards (230 m) behind the British forward line and out of sight of the enemy. Movement forward through the communication trenches was not possible because they were congested with dead and wounded men and under shell fire. Lieutenant Colonel Arthur Lovell Hadow, the battalion commander, decided to move immediately into attack formation and advance across the surface, which involved first navigating through the British barbed wire defences. As they breasted the skyline behind the British first line, they were effectively the only troops moving on the battlefield and clearly visible to the German defenders. Subjected to the full force of the 119th (Reserve) Infantry Regiment, most of the Newfoundland Regiment who had started forward were dead, dying or wounded within 15 to 20 minutes of leaving St. John's Road trench. Most reached no further than the Danger Tree, a skeleton of a tree that lay in No Man's Land that was being utilized as a landmark. So far as can be ascertained, 22 officers and 758 other ranks were directly involved in the advance. Of these, all the officers and slightly under 658 other ranks became casualties. Of the 780 men who went forward only about 110 survived unscathed, of whom only 68 were available for roll call the following day. For all intents and purposes the Newfoundland Regiment had been wiped out, the unit as a whole having suffered a casualty rate of approximately 90 percent.

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[gotsnowgotslush]

The Somme was mentioned and spoken about by my extended family, among other horrible instances of the past. Being born in 1954, our schools thought it was important to cover battles.PBS gave us television series that included the historic significance of battles.

What Attila the Hun has to do with German troops, I do not have a clue.
But, I do remember that the word was mentioned. I was just a child, at the time.

 

[trysail]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/11/04/the-great-war-detail-1-39affd8bd7088338882452533d2fa8093b75fb47-s800-c85.jpg


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[Radiohead]

Horrific battle, 331,000 Australian Volunteers fought there out of a population of 4.7 Million.....64.8% were wounded or killed...

Go Britain.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

The Somme was mentioned and spoken about by my extended family, among other horrible instances of the past. Being born in 1954, our schools thought it was important to cover battles.PBS gave us television series that included the historic significance of battles.

What Attila the Hun has to do with German troops, I do not have a clue.
But, I do remember that the word was mentioned. I was just a child, at the time.

“Huns” resulted from a remark made by Kaiser Wilhelm when he dispatched a German expeditionary corps to China during the 1900 Boxer Rebellion. He basically told his troops to show no mercy, saying that 1,000 years ago the Huns (an Asiatic nomad people, not Germanic in the least) led by Attila, had made such a name for themselves with their depredations that they were still considered synonymous with wanton destruction, and urging the German troops of 1900 in China to similarly make a name for themselves that would last 1,000 years. When the Germans were fighting the French and the British a mere 14 years later, this piece of ready-made propaganda was too good to pass up for the Allied side, particularly in view of the reports coming in from Belgium from the earliest days of the war.

 

[Lancecastor]

Nasty bizness, the Somme.

I had two relatives in the RNR for that, one lived.

 

[trysail]

U.S. citizens remain woefully ignorant of the bloodbath that was WWI.


The ignoramuses who denigrate French military prowess reveal themselves as uninformed fools. The stunningly horrific British, French and Commonwealth casualties sustained during that war stagger the imagination.


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[Knot Again]

I read where almost at the end of WWI

With a hr or so to go for the ARMISTICE

Commanders ordered massive over the trench assault....for NO REASON, thousands died

HORRIFIC

 

[Colonel Hogan]

U.S. citizens remain woefully ignorant of the bloodbath that was WWI.


The ignoramuses who denigrate French military prowess reveal themselves as uninformed fools. The stunningly horrific British, French and Commonwealth casualties sustained during that war stagger the imagination.


​

I've always felt that WWI was eclipsed by the subsequent rise of Hitler and the Nazis and the technological advances and global expanse of World War II. Plus, so much of the geopolitical context following WWII was a direct consequence of it.

WWI seems to have gotten lost and amounted to little more than a pointless carnage. I think that is a shame. I'd like to have a better appreciation for the history, but I've always found it difficult. It doesn't draw me in to the subject matter like WWII.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I've always felt that WWI was eclipsed by the subsequent rise of Hitler and the Nazis and the technological advances and global expanse of World War II. Plus, so much of the geopolitical context following WWII was a direct consequence of it.

WWI seems to have gotten lost and amounted to little more than a pointless carnage. I think that is a shame. I'd like to have a better appreciation for the history, but I've always found it difficult. It doesn't draw me in to the subject matter like WWII.

the why's and wherefore's of WW1 are feckin' complicated! treaties, etc with countries no longer in existence - even an empire (or two) have bitten the proverbial since.

they blame gavrilo princip for firing the first shot, and that shot was as a result of the car carrying the intended victim taking a wrong turn and then stalling as the driver realised his mistake.

and on it goes...

 

[Knot Again]

I've always felt that WWI was eclipsed by the subsequent rise of Hitler and the Nazis and the technological advances and global expanse of World War II. Plus, so much of the geopolitical context following WWII was a direct consequence of it.

WWI seems to have gotten lost and amounted to little more than a pointless carnage. I think that is a shame. I'd like to have a better appreciation for the history, but I've always found it difficult. It doesn't draw me in to the subject matter like WWII.

better hurry, b4 they ban BOOKS on HISTORY


Top Ranked Colleges Don’t Require History Majors To Study American History

Screen Shot 2016-06-30 at 8.09.16 PM

I was a history major and had a requirement of at least two classes in American history. But it's gone downhill since then and this is why so many are so lacking in history knowledge, even history majors.

Via Free Beacon:

Several elite colleges do not require students pursuing a history degree to take U.S. history courses, according to a new American Council of Trustees and Alumni report.

Only 23 of the 76 institutions ranked as “the best” by U.S. News & World Report’s 2016 rankings mandate that history majors take at least one course in U.S. history, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.

The chairman of the history department at Carleton College, a private liberal arts school in Minnesota, said that history majors are not required to take a single U.S. history course because the university is “committed to the idea that all histories are important and valuable in the cultivation of a robust civic consciousness.”

He noted that many students had already received high scores on the Advanced Placement U.S. history exam.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

better hurry, b4 they ban BOOKS on HISTORY


Top Ranked Colleges Don’t Require History Majors To Study American History

Screen Shot 2016-06-30 at 8.09.16 PM

I was a history major and had a requirement of at least two classes in American history. But it's gone downhill since then and this is why so many are so lacking in history knowledge, even history majors.

Via Free Beacon:

Several elite colleges do not require students pursuing a history degree to take U.S. history courses, according to a new American Council of Trustees and Alumni report.

Only 23 of the 76 institutions ranked as “the best” by U.S. News & World Report’s 2016 rankings mandate that history majors take at least one course in U.S. history, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.

The chairman of the history department at Carleton College, a private liberal arts school in Minnesota, said that history majors are not required to take a single U.S. history course because the university is “committed to the idea that all histories are important and valuable in the cultivation of a robust civic consciousness.”

He noted that many students had already received high scores on the Advanced Placement U.S. history exam.

But apparently not ours.

 

[bronzeage]

U.S. citizens remain woefully ignorant of the bloodbath that was WWI.


The ignoramuses who denigrate French military prowess reveal themselves as uninformed fools. The stunningly horrific British, French and Commonwealth casualties sustained during that war stagger the imagination.


​

I don't think so. Many people of my generation(born in the 50's) had WW1 veterans in their family. My grandfather was a bit too young, but all three of his older brothers served in France.

As for denigration, it's French and British generals who were uniformed fools. It was the generation of Americans before my grandfather who learned the folly of marching troops into massed rifle fire and artillery. Memories of our War Between the States were still fresh enough.

 

[trysail]

I've always felt that WWI was eclipsed by the subsequent rise of Hitler and the Nazis and the technological advances and global expanse of World War II. Plus, so much of the geopolitical context following WWII was a direct consequence of it.

WWI seems to have gotten lost and amounted to little more than a pointless carnage. I think that is a shame. I'd like to have a better appreciation for the history, but I've always found it difficult. It doesn't draw me in to the subject matter like WWII.

the why's and wherefore's of WW1 are feckin' complicated! treaties, etc with countries no longer in existence - even an empire (or two) have bitten the proverbial since.

they blame gavrilo princip for firing the first shot, and that shot was as a result of the car carrying the intended victim taking a wrong turn and then stalling as the driver realised his mistake.

and on it goes...

I don't think it's possible to understand WW II, Hitler and the Nazis without a solid grounding in WW I.


Robert K. Massie's superb 1991 book Dreadnought: England, Germany and the Coming of the Great War is a fabulous account of the antecedents, accidents, misjudgments and miscalculations that led to the calamity. It can't help but leave a reader with the understanding that it really was a bunch of blind men fumbling about in the dark without the slightest clue what they were about to unleash— in concert with equally clueless citizenry caught up in patriotic fervor.


The absurdity of the Gavrilo Princip assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was an entirely appropriate cockup as prelude (or coda).


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[Knot Again]

But apparently not ours.

teh WEST is intent on SUICIDE

Islam and COLOREDS Uber ALLES

 

[trysail]

I don't think so. Many people of my generation(born in the 50's) had WW1 veterans in their family. My grandfather was a bit too young, but all three of his older brothers served in France.

As for denigration, it's French and British generals who were uniformed fools. It was the generation of Americans before my grandfather who learned the folly of marching troops into massed rifle fire and artillery. Memories of our War Between the States were still fresh enough.

Pershing & Co. proceeded to do the same thing the Europeans did.

See Belleau Wood and the Marne.


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[trysail]

Interesting.


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Interesting article out this weekend on the Battle of the Somme's influence on Tolkien:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/07/03/opinion/sunday/03loconte/03loconte-master768.jpg

Though the debt is largely overlooked, Tolkien’s supreme literary achievement, “The Lord of the Rings,” owes a great deal to his experience at the Somme. Reaching the front shortly after the offensive began, Tolkien served for four months as a battalion signals officer with the 11th Lancashire Fusiliers in the Picardy region of France.

Using telephones, flares, signal lights, pigeons and runners, he maintained communications between the army staff directing the battles from the rear and the officers in the field. According to the British historian Martin Gilbert, who interviewed Tolkien decades later about his combat experience, he came under intense enemy fire. He had heard “the fearful cries of men who had been hit,” Gilbert wrote. “Tolkien and his signalers were always vulnerable.”

Tolkien’s creative mind found an outlet. He began writing the first drafts of his mythology about Middle-earth, as he recalled, “by candle light in bell-tents, even some down in dugouts under shell fire.” In 1917, recuperating from trench fever, Tolkien composed a series of tales involving “gnomes,” dwarves and orcs engaged in a great struggle for his imaginary realm.

In the rent earth of the Somme Valley, he laid the foundation of his epic trilogy.​

- read the full article How J.R.R. Tolkien Found Mordor on the Western Front (from The New York Times)​

 

[SkAoUt]

Newfoundlanders traditionally haven't celebrated Canada Day (July 1st). Its remembered as Memorial Day in Newfoundland and Labrador.

 

[trysail]

"The battle began on 7:30 a.m., July 1, 1916, on the river Somme in France. There had already been a series of bombardments; British generals unloaded a week's worth of artillery, thinking it would decimate the Germans and allow British troops to move in easily.

"But while the bombardment was so loud that it could be heard in London, it hadn't been very effective; many of the shells were duds, and others just hadn't done the job. Then the barrage lifted, and the troops started to move.

" 'When all that noise quieted down, the Germans realized, OK, the shelling has stopped; let's get out of our dugouts and man our machine gun posts,' Sacco says. 'The British were marching towards them in a line, and the Germans just started firing on these troops.' "
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-Lynn Neary
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[oggbashan]

Today Irish descendants and Ulster descendants of those who fought side by side at the Battle of the Somme were able to remember side by side.

For far too long the Irish who fought in WW1 were deliberately ignored in Ireland. Their dead and wounded veterans were regarded as traitors in Ireland, despite many of them volunteering to fight for the British Empire to show that Catholic Irishmen could be trusted to have Home Rule and independence.

The Irish and Ulster troops fought on the same side in the same battles. Now their descendants can remember together.

At Mametz Wood, a few days after the start of the Somme Offensive, the Welsh troops were slaughtered in a frontal attack across open ground against many German machine gun positions. One of the handful of surviving officers told his family that as he retreated with the few men left 'his feet didn't touch the ground'. It took them years to realise what he meant was that the whole ground was covered in dead bodies that they had to walk on.

 

[domroger]

The same thing happened after WW2 .Only to be expected from the government who sent a message to Adolf wishing him a happy birthday in 1945 .